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aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
5/22/20 10:54 p.m.
yupididit said:

My point of view and me just being honest:

Being a white heterosexual male (WHM to save typing), throughout the past 1000+ years or so the WHM has oppressed murdered colonized and waged terror on most of the world. The WHM has also completely erased cultures and groups of people off the face of the earth simply because they weren't a WHM. Think about it. After hundreds of years of this going on, it takes a toll and establishes a perception of WHM's. Your ancestors were scary and down right evil to their fellow humans. Cause and affect. I think as the progress in this world and as non-WHM gain the same positional power, it threatens the normal privileges of being a WHM. I feel like it may cause some WHM to feel defensive and or like they're being punished. It isn't the case it's just the playing field is being equalized more and more....

I imagine you realize what you are describing is still straight up racism (with a heavy dose of blaming the sons for the sins of the fathers).  Someone could also use a very similar argument for other races / cultures also.  None of it makes any rational sense and certainly doesn't justify anything. It would be nice if it was all treated as equally wrong.

The really weird thing is, it seems like a good number "white" people are adopting a similar attitude (e.g. the recent vilification of Christopher Columbus, who would be a horrible person today, but hardly unusual for any race / culture back then).

The reality is, as noted above, you could make everyone the same color and culture and a-holes will ALWAYS find something as a basis to discriminate against someone who is not like them (height, weight, what town they are from, size of their nose or ears, what sports team....)

It is an unfortunate characteristic of humans, and likely based in our bassist instincts and behaviors.  What is the solution? I am not sure, but it won't go away anytime soon.

P.S. I do very much appreciate you perspective and input.

 

Brett_Murphy (Forum Patrón)
Brett_Murphy (Forum Patrón) MegaDork
5/23/20 12:56 a.m.
aircooled said:
yupididit said:

My point of view and me just being honest:

Being a white heterosexual male (WHM to save typing), throughout the past 1000+ years or so the WHM has oppressed murdered colonized and waged terror on most of the world. The WHM has also completely erased cultures and groups of people off the face of the earth simply because they weren't a WHM. Think about it. After hundreds of years of this going on, it takes a toll and establishes a perception of WHM's. Your ancestors were scary and down right evil to their fellow humans. Cause and affect. I think as the progress in this world and as non-WHM gain the same positional power, it threatens the normal privileges of being a WHM. I feel like it may cause some WHM to feel defensive and or like they're being punished. It isn't the case it's just the playing field is being equalized more and more....

I imagine you realize what you are describing is still straight up racism (with a heavy dose of blaming the sons for the sins of the fathers).  

 

It'd be blaming the others for the sins of the fathers if it wasn't still happening today. It's not supposed to, but it does. It's not something that goes away with the stroke of a pen and the passing of laws. People literally have to age out and die and have their teachings forgotten or rendered impotent for it to stop being a factor. There were people holding positions of power that actively and openly supported segregation in this century. I can't say too much more without getting into flounder territory, but *waves hands around* listen to some of the people in power speaking today.  It isn't history. It's probably more in the open now than it has been in the past.

 

OHSCrifle
OHSCrifle SuperDork
5/23/20 7:09 a.m.

In reply to Brett_Murphy (Forum Patrón) :

Absolutely the truth. I think with each generation more eyes are opened but this ship turns... very slowly.

yupididit
yupididit UberDork
5/23/20 9:14 a.m.

In reply to aircooled :

My post wasn't to justify, blame, or even rationalize. But to simply give my point of view. Racism in itself is irrational. While not blaming you for the sins of your fathers, rather holding you accountable to correct and make right the sins of your fathers. Those sins have created a systematic racist culture in our country that still victimize a large population of this country on the regular. Also, the sins of your fathers have been passed down to be traditions for the sons. As well as those sinful fathers are still alive and well in this country, sinning as if it's their duty. 

Oh I'll be very clear on one thing. Other races in our country can do horrible things to white people just because they're white, yes. But those will be individual acts. But, no one has created a system of racism in our country that has been perpetuated at every level of govt, media, and economy to victimize whites. No one plans to either.

So, yes I agree you could very well be a victim of racist actions from individuals. But...

Our govt will never deem you inhuman with no rights, just because you're white. 

You'll never be treated as livestock, just because you're white. 

Our govt will never create policies to make sure you cannot participate in your constitutional rights as a citizen of this country, just because you're white.

Our govt will never let people in power and banks put in place policies that'll prevent you from generating wealth, just because you're white.

There will never be a water fountain you can't drink at, because you're white.

Acts of hate against you such as murder, maiming, burning, hanging, rape, and racially driven police brutality will never be tolerated by every level of govt, because you're white. 

Shall I continue to list things that'll never happen to you and your kids and your kids kids, solely because the color of your skin? To me that is what "white privilege" is. 

I agree humans will always find a way to discriminate based on some reason they deem valid. But, that isn't the problem we're discussing. What we're discussing is full fledged societal acceptance and proliferation of the act in dehumanizing and oppressing an entire group of people in this country just because our skin is black. Luckily, we've progressed enough to never repeat those acts of oppression on a new group to dehumanize. That doesn't mean those "sins of your fathers" aren't very well active in today's world. Even if they completely stopped today, it'll take generations for us to recover from the trauma and trickle down effects. 

 

PS: No problem and you're welcome.

yupididit
yupididit UberDork
5/23/20 9:20 a.m.
Brett_Murphy (Forum Patrón) said:
aircooled said:
yupididit said:

My point of view and me just being honest:

Being a white heterosexual male (WHM to save typing), throughout the past 1000+ years or so the WHM has oppressed murdered colonized and waged terror on most of the world. The WHM has also completely erased cultures and groups of people off the face of the earth simply because they weren't a WHM. Think about it. After hundreds of years of this going on, it takes a toll and establishes a perception of WHM's. Your ancestors were scary and down right evil to their fellow humans. Cause and affect. I think as the progress in this world and as non-WHM gain the same positional power, it threatens the normal privileges of being a WHM. I feel like it may cause some WHM to feel defensive and or like they're being punished. It isn't the case it's just the playing field is being equalized more and more....

I imagine you realize what you are describing is still straight up racism (with a heavy dose of blaming the sons for the sins of the fathers).  

 

It'd be blaming the others for the sins of the fathers if it wasn't still happening today. It's not supposed to, but it does. It's not something that goes away with the stroke of a pen and the passing of laws. People literally have to age out and die and have their teachings forgotten or rendered impotent for it to stop being a factor. There were people holding positions of power that actively and openly supported segregation in this century. I can't say too much more without getting into flounder territory, but *waves hands around* listen to some of the people in power speaking today.  It isn't history. It's probably more in the open now than it has been in the past.

 

 

Exactly there are still people and lawmakers in our government that teached racism, spoke racism, participate in racism. Do we think they aren't influential? Do we think they aren't passing that on to their family? Its sad but it's reality. And it should be a topic of discussion and action until it no longer exist. Or like some people believe, black people still complain and dwell on the past lol. We will not stop until the past no longer negatively affects us today. 

Steve_Jones
Steve_Jones Reader
5/23/20 10:56 a.m.
yupididit said:

Oh I'll be very clear on one thing. Other races in our country can do horrible things to white people just because they're white, yes. But those will be individual acts. But, no one has created a system of racism in our country that has been perpetuated at every level of govt, media, and economy to victimize whites. No one plans to either.

So, yes I agree you could very well be a victim of racist actions from individuals. But...

Black on white racism that happens Today is blamed on the black individual, but white on black is blamed on every white person because of what happened in the past? There are generations of people taught to hate the white man in this country, so why is it not assumed to be the fault of every black person, like it is the white people? As a straight guy, am I somehow responsible for all hate crimes against LGBT?

The individual committed the offense, plain and simple. No one else is to blame.

 

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
5/23/20 11:26 a.m.
yupididit said:

In reply to aircooled :

....Our govt will never deem you inhuman with no rights, just because you're white. 

You'll never be treated as livestock, just because you're white. 

Our govt will never create policies to make sure you cannot participate in your constitutional rights as a citizen of this country, just because you're white.

Our govt will never let people in power and banks put in place policies that'll prevent you from generating wealth, just because you're white...

I do totally agree, institutional racism is entirely a different (and far more dangerous) thing than individual.  I do worry about your phrasing here (not that I don't understand it).  Your use of "you will never" seems to imply it has happened to you, but those things have been gone for a while now (unless you are a lot older than I think).  The reality is (my perspective of course) is that those things are infinitesimally likely to return.  I would say I should be about as worried about that as you (not likely for my skin color but some other aspect).  OK, you a bit more (skin color is just a super lazy / easy way to differentiate people), but not by much because there is soooooo much pushing against that now (in the US at least).

I do fully agree with shaming people for stupid actions, I just think we should careful to avoid shaming people for what their ancestors did.  Remember yes. Shame, no.

Anyway, interesting (though mine field like) discussion.  Hopefully it doesn't go "wrong".

Brett_Murphy (Forum Patrón)
Brett_Murphy (Forum Patrón) MegaDork
5/23/20 11:26 a.m.
Steve_Jones said:

Black on white racism that happens Today is blamed on the black individual, but white on black is blamed on every white person because of what happened in the past? There are generations of people taught to hate the white man in this country, so why is it not assumed to be the fault of every black person, like it is the white people? As a straight guy, am I somehow responsible for all hate crimes against LGBT?

The individual committed the offense, plain and simple. No one else is to blame.

 

Ehhh... you're missing the point by focusing on the actions of individuals. In 2011, he voting districts in the state where I live must be redrawn because they were found by the US Supreme Court to have, to have been made in such a way that they intentionally disenfranchised minority voters. That's the kind if institutional stuff we're talking about. 

It'd be more like if you were actively crafting political policies to encourage hate crimes against LGBTQ individuals or engaging in stochastic terrorism against them while putting on a happy face and denying all responsibility, despite inciting violent action against them.

Again, it isn't history if it is still happening.

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
5/23/20 11:52 a.m.
Brett_Murphy (Forum Patrón) said:

...the voting districts in the state where I live must be redrawn because they were found by the US Supreme Court to have, to have been made in such a way that they intentionally disenfranchised minority voters. That's the kind if institutional stuff we're talking about...

Yes, but why do you assume race is the primary reason?  They are voting districts, the primary motivation almost certainly would be to reduce the voting power of a particular party.  Certainly minorities tend to vote for one party, but that does not mean the primary motivation is race (unless this was done by the party they normally vote for).

This is the sort of thing that is frustrating. Racism certainly exists, but it seems to be assumed in a lot of places when it unlikely is. Which is dangerous because it provides reason to deny or not trust it when it does actually happen (e.g. cry wolf).

Steve_Jones
Steve_Jones Reader
5/23/20 11:59 a.m.

In reply to Brett_Murphy (Forum Patrón) :

I did not focus on the individual. I replied to a statement that when non whites do things, that is the act of the non white individual. My point is simply, they should ALL be considered the act of the individual committing them, regardless of race. 
 

I am not responsible for the act of any other white guy, nor can I assume Yupididit is responsible for the anti Semitic remarks of Al Sharpton, because the both happen to be the same race, can I?
 

 

yupididit
yupididit UberDork
5/23/20 12:20 p.m.
aircooled said:
yupididit said:

In reply to aircooled :

....Our govt will never deem you inhuman with no rights, just because you're white. 

You'll never be treated as livestock, just because you're white. 

Our govt will never create policies to make sure you cannot participate in your constitutional rights as a citizen of this country, just because you're white.

Our govt will never let people in power and banks put in place policies that'll prevent you from generating wealth, just because you're white...

I do totally agree, institutional racism is entirely a different (and far more dangerous) thing than individual.  I do worry about your phrasing here (not that I don't understand it).  Your use of "you will never" seems to imply it has happened to you, but those things have been gone for a while now (unless you are a lot older than I think).  The reality is (my perspective of course) is that those things are infinitesimally likely to return.  I would say I should be about as worried about that as you (not likely for my skin color but some other aspect).  OK, you a bit more (skin color is just a super lazy / easy way to differentiate people), but not by much because there is soooooo much pushing against that now (in the US at least).

I do fully agree with shaming people for stupid actions, I just think we should careful to avoid shaming people for what their ancestors did.  Remember yes. Shame, no.

Anyway, interesting (though mine field like) discussion.  Hopefully it doesn't go "wrong".

Yes, those things have been gone for awhile now and those specific things haven't happened to me. But, I've definitely been a victim of racism, multiple times. By police, military commanders, friends, and strangers. Each time hurts like the first and none of those times were handled correctly when I made a complaint or spoke out about it. Those things that are no longer in place still affects and hurt us today. I was never a slave but I'm a descendant of slaves out of Virginia and North Carolina. And I am still negatively affected by it today in some form or another.

 

Not shaming nor blaming any white person for what their ancestors done. But, I will openly express the pain their ancestors caused and how today you can still cause pain with what you do and say. Also I'll quote my last post

 

While not blaming you for the sins of your fathers, rather holding you accountable to correct and make right the sins of your fathers. 

 

Great ways to correct and make right those sins? Be understanding, spread love, seek knowledge vs staying ignorant, do not dismiss ones pain and experience from racism, actively shut down any and all racism that you see, and do your part in deconstructing the systemic racism that still in place. 

yupididit
yupididit UberDork
5/23/20 12:22 p.m.
Steve_Jones said:
yupididit said:

Oh I'll be very clear on one thing. Other races in our country can do horrible things to white people just because they're white, yes. But those will be individual acts. But, no one has created a system of racism in our country that has been perpetuated at every level of govt, media, and economy to victimize whites. No one plans to either.

So, yes I agree you could very well be a victim of racist actions from individuals. But...

Black on white racism that happens Today is blamed on the black individual, but white on black is blamed on every white person because of what happened in the past? There are generations of people taught to hate the white man in this country, so why is it not assumed to be the fault of every black person, like it is the white people? As a straight guy, am I somehow responsible for all hate crimes against LGBT?

The individual committed the offense, plain and simple. No one else is to blame.

 

I'm sorry that you understood my post that way. That's the only way I know how to communicate it. Hopefully, you gain better understanding and empathy from further discussion with others or personal experiences. Be well! 

yupididit
yupididit UberDork
5/23/20 12:28 p.m.
aircooled said:
Brett_Murphy (Forum Patrón) said:

...the voting districts in the state where I live must be redrawn because they were found by the US Supreme Court to have, to have been made in such a way that they intentionally disenfranchised minority voters. That's the kind if institutional stuff we're talking about...

Yes, but why do you assume race is the primary reason?  They are voting districts, the primary motivation almost certainly would be to reduce the voting power of a particular party.  Certainly minorities tend to vote for one party, but that does not mean the primary motivation is race (unless this was done by the party they normally vote for).

This is the sort of thing that is frustrating. Racism certainly exists, but it seems to be assumed in a lot of places when it unlikely is. Which is dangerous because it provides reason to deny or not trust it when it does actually happen (e.g. cry wolf).

First we weren't allowed to vote and then it was made extremely hard for us to vote.... racist voting district policies really seem unlikely to you? 

Voting districts, zoning, racist lending practices etc are huge reasons why we have systematic racism. To ignore that and think racism wasn't a primary reason for a lot of policies, that's purposely ignoring the truth. It's happened plenty of times. 

yupididit
yupididit UberDork
5/23/20 12:34 p.m.
Steve_Jones said:

In reply to Brett_Murphy (Forum Patrón) :

I did not focus on the individual. I replied to a statement that when non whites do things, that is the act of the non white individual. My point is simply, they should ALL be considered the act of the individual committing them, regardless of race. 
 

I am not responsible for the act of any other white guy, nor can I assume Yupididit is responsible for the anti Semitic remarks of Al Sharpton, because the both happen to be the same race, can I?

 

Don't take it personal. And please try not to be defensive. I'm not attacking or blaming any of you, especially you. 

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
5/23/20 12:45 p.m.

I completely believe that those things have happened to you (there are a lot of stupid people out there) and it sucks you had (have) to go through that.  More the reason I would think to be careful to not apply it where it's unlikely to be the case.

I just think it's unreasonable to assume race is the reason in that case, when party a far more reasonable explanation. You would have to identify something that specifically hurts the race / culture separate from party to make that claim reasonably (e.g. not disadvantaging non-minorities of that party). Thinking that way allows someone to apply pretty much any action that goes against that party to racism.  As mentioned, it weakens the examples you mentioned which are certainly real / harmful issues.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
5/23/20 12:55 p.m.
Steve_Jones said:
yupididit said:

Oh I'll be very clear on one thing. Other races in our country can do horrible things to white people just because they're white, yes. But those will be individual acts. But, no one has created a system of racism in our country that has been perpetuated at every level of govt, media, and economy to victimize whites. No one plans to either.

So, yes I agree you could very well be a victim of racist actions from individuals. But...

Black on white racism that happens Today is blamed on the black individual, but white on black is rather validly blamed on every white person because of what still happens every day. There are generations of people taught to hate someone unlike them in this country, so why is it not assumed to be the fault of every perpetrator, like it is the white people? As a straight guy, am I somehow responsible for all hate crimes against LGBT?

The individual committed the offense, plain and simple. No one else is to blame.

 

I edited your reply to reflect how this would read if I typed it.  Not being confrontational, just how I would have phrased it.  Your reply drips of privilege.  Seriously.

This is the classic Pit Bull/Rotweiller/German Shepherd argument.  The whole breed vs upbringing debate.  Yes, white people consistently perpetrate racism in every day life.  Maybe you don't.  Maybe 30% of white people don't.  But it has nothing to do with 5 generations of slavery, it has to do with the fact that that racism never fully left.  It's still here.  It has to do with the fact that N**ger jokes still exist.  If you've been bitten by a Pit Bull, chances are you won't randomly trust the next one you meet.  The logical argument is that "this is a different dog and not the one that bit you."  But your mind is triggered by the fact that you nearly lost a hand the last time you encountered a dog that looked like that.

Faith and expecting the best from the white oligarchy becomes difficult when the majority of them don't give you a fair shake.  I know that I have been passed over for several bartending jobs despite being far better than the chosen candidate because I didn't have tits and pretty eyes.  When you're statistically paid far less than white people, have a lower representation in most job fields than white people, see commercials where rich people are always white, it tends to dull your psychological willingness to assume the best about the Pit Bull.

Imagine how outraged we would be if new laws were enacted that unfairly gave advantages to minorities; priority hiring, better pay, preferred housing loans, no longer getting profiled by law enforcement.  I would support that legislation for, oh, I don't know... the next 250 years?  Of course most Americans would be outraged at the unfairness, but it would be an interesting perspective to be in a Minority's shoes for 250 years.  Fill the government with minorities and exclude most white people for a while.  

Minorities living in the US are treated as second-class citizens, and excusing racism "because slavery is over" is in and of itself, racist.

purplepeopleeater
purplepeopleeater Reader
5/23/20 1:00 p.m.

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

It was on HULU last week.

 

Steve_Jones
Steve_Jones Reader
5/23/20 1:26 p.m.

In reply to yupididit :

Nothing taken personally and I don't see any blame in your post. Unfortunately with written vs spoken dialogue people can read things that are not there. It's all good, we can still have a beer someday :)

 

I am also not trying to say it's not there, and/or excuse it. I'm lucky enough to not have the same experiences solely because I'm white, and I get that. 
 

im just saying blame the moron that does the act, regardless of why he did it or race. 

Stampie (FS)
Stampie (FS) UltimaDork
5/23/20 1:53 p.m.

I think a lot when I drive and the recent changes to the NFL Rooney Rule was something I thought about on our recent trip.

Why would a group of business owners ignore a whole group of eligible prospective employees?  Seems like a smart business man would take advantage of looking to that group of employees to pick the overlooked prospective employees and get the better ones.  The Rooney rule is named for Dan Rooney who was the owner of the Pittsburg Steelers.  His son Art Rooney II is the current owner.  In the last 20 years Pittsburg has the 2nd best record in the NFL.  The Patriots are the best but no one likes the Patriots.

Where would our country be if we truly offered equal education to all kids for the last 150 years.  If we had given the same opportunities to all people of all races, genders,  sexual orientation, or anything else used to say you're different so not equal?  Think of all of that mind power wasted because as a country we don't want anyone different to rock our boat.  Rocking the boat is how you make a more stable boat in the long term.

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
5/23/20 2:11 p.m.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

Black on white racism that happens Today is blamed on the black individual, but white on black is rather validly blamed on every white person because of what still happens every day. ..

I edited your reply to reflect how this would read if I typed it.  Not being confrontational, just how I would have phrased it.  Your reply drips of privilege. 

I guess you don't realize how racist what you expressed (by editing) is.

rac·ism:

The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races

I fully understand WHY someone might feel that way, but it doesn't in any way make it right.  Especially when it directly contradicts what they likely want (no racism).  

It's that ever common revenge cycle that will make sure such things will never end.

I am sorry, racism is and never will be "valid" in my eye.

Boost_Crazy
Boost_Crazy HalfDork
5/23/20 2:36 p.m.

In reply to yupididit :

 

 

In reply to aircooled :

My post wasn't to justify, blame, or even rationalize. But to simply give my point of view. Racism in itself is irrational. While not blaming you for the sins of your fathers, rather holding you accountable to correct and make right the sins of your fathers. Those sins have created a systematic racist culture in our country that still victimize a large population of this country on the regular. Also, the sins of your fathers have been passed down to be traditions for the sons. As well as those sinful fathers are still alive and well in this country, sinning as if it's their duty. 

Oh I'll be very clear on one thing. Other races in our country can do horrible things to white people just because they're white, yes. But those will be individual acts. But, no one has created a system of racism in our country that has been perpetuated at every level of govt, media, and economy to victimize whites. No one plans to either.

So, yes I agree you could very well be a victim of racist actions from individuals. But...

Our govt will never deem you inhuman with no rights, just because you're white. 

You'll never be treated as livestock, just because you're white. 

Our govt will never create policies to make sure you cannot participate in your constitutional rights as a citizen of this country, just because you're white.

Our govt will never let people in power and banks put in place policies that'll prevent you from generating wealth, just because you're white.

There will never be a water fountain you can't drink at, because you're white.

Acts of hate against you such as murder, maiming, burning, hanging, rape, and racially driven police brutality will never be tolerated by every level of govt, because you're white. 

Shall I continue to list things that'll never happen to you and your kids and your kids kids, solely because the color of your skin? To me that is what "white privilege" is. 

I agree humans will always find a way to discriminate based on some reason they deem valid. But, that isn't the problem we're discussing. What we're discussing is full fledged societal acceptance and proliferation of the act in dehumanizing and oppressing an entire group of people in this country just because our skin is black. Luckily, we've progressed enough to never repeat those acts of oppression on a new group to dehumanize. That doesn't mean those "sins of your fathers" aren't very well active in today's world. Even if they completely stopped today, it'll take generations for us to recover from the trauma and trickle down effects. 

 

PS: No problem and you're welcome.

You are judging a whole group of people by the actions of few. And not even just by the actions of today, but the actions of the past. You identify these people by the color of their skin.  Holding white people “accountable to correct and make right the sins of your fathers?” Which white people? Can you tell by looking at them? Are all white people guilty due to the color of their skin? Most white people in the country today descended from ancestors that immigrated well after the civil war. Many fleeing oppression themselves in their homelands. Were their ancestors evil too? How about the white people who’s ancestors gave their lives fighting against slavery? Do they still owe you one? How about all of the white people who fought for civil rights? Those that marched side by side with blacks and faced the same dangers? 

No doubt there is still racism today. And it’s not just white on black. Like others have pointed out, it seems that racism against whites is gaining acceptance. Racism of any kind is dangerous. It feeds on itself, and only leads to more racism. It was getting better, but that didn’t fit the narrative. Made for a slow news day. Some people see racism everywhere. Something bad happens to a black person- call it racism. Story doesn’t fit? Make it up, report it anyway. Video doesn’t fit the narrative? Edit it. 911 call not racist? No problem, a little clip here, a little clip there, ready for the evening news. 

If we really want to combat racism, we cannot encourage it. It’s not okay to be racist, no matter what justification you think you have. We need to call out and remedy true racism when we see it, but we need to be damn sure that we are right when we level that accusation. Anything less just diminishes it, or worse yet, widens the divide. Right now, we are having the racial version of the boy who cried wolf. Every story in the media involving people of different color is being portrayed as about race. Long term, that will have the opposite of the desired effect. It should be sad when a perceived racist event takes place. But many can’t contain their glee, as they see an opportunity to divide and get more people in their camp. That is just wrong. It’s worse than wrong, because even if there is a well meaning motivation in there somewhere, they are doing more harm than good. How about getting all of the information first before jumping to racial conclusions? Is the cause more important than the truth? The real truth is that while the majority of our country wants to come together, or already has come together, there are significant forces at work to keep us divided. 

yupididit
yupididit UberDork
5/23/20 2:48 p.m.
Boost_Crazy said:

In reply to yupididit :

 

 

In reply to aircooled :

My post wasn't to justify, blame, or even rationalize. But to simply give my point of view. Racism in itself is irrational. While not blaming you for the sins of your fathers, rather holding you accountable to correct and make right the sins of your fathers. Those sins have created a systematic racist culture in our country that still victimize a large population of this country on the regular. Also, the sins of your fathers have been passed down to be traditions for the sons. As well as those sinful fathers are still alive and well in this country, sinning as if it's their duty. 

Oh I'll be very clear on one thing. Other races in our country can do horrible things to white people just because they're white, yes. But those will be individual acts. But, no one has created a system of racism in our country that has been perpetuated at every level of govt, media, and economy to victimize whites. No one plans to either.

So, yes I agree you could very well be a victim of racist actions from individuals. But...

Our govt will never deem you inhuman with no rights, just because you're white. 

You'll never be treated as livestock, just because you're white. 

Our govt will never create policies to make sure you cannot participate in your constitutional rights as a citizen of this country, just because you're white.

Our govt will never let people in power and banks put in place policies that'll prevent you from generating wealth, just because you're white.

There will never be a water fountain you can't drink at, because you're white.

Acts of hate against you such as murder, maiming, burning, hanging, rape, and racially driven police brutality will never be tolerated by every level of govt, because you're white. 

Shall I continue to list things that'll never happen to you and your kids and your kids kids, solely because the color of your skin? To me that is what "white privilege" is. 

I agree humans will always find a way to discriminate based on some reason they deem valid. But, that isn't the problem we're discussing. What we're discussing is full fledged societal acceptance and proliferation of the act in dehumanizing and oppressing an entire group of people in this country just because our skin is black. Luckily, we've progressed enough to never repeat those acts of oppression on a new group to dehumanize. That doesn't mean those "sins of your fathers" aren't very well active in today's world. Even if they completely stopped today, it'll take generations for us to recover from the trauma and trickle down effects. 

 

PS: No problem and you're welcome.

You are judging a whole group of people by the actions of few. And not even just by the actions of today, but the actions of the past. You identify these people by the color of their skin.  Holding white people “accountable to correct and make right the sins of your fathers?” Which white people? Can you tell by looking at them? Are all white people guilty due to the color of their skin? Most white people in the country today descended from ancestors that immigrated well after the civil war. Many fleeing oppression themselves in their homelands. Were their ancestors evil too? How about the white people who’s ancestors gave their lives fighting against slavery? Do they still owe you one? How about all of the white people who fought for civil rights? Those that marched side by side with blacks and faced the same dangers? 

No doubt there is still racism today. And it’s not just white on black. Like others have pointed out, it seems that racism against whites is gaining acceptance. Racism of any kind is dangerous. It feeds on itself, and only leads to more racism. It was getting better, but that didn’t fit the narrative. Made for a slow news day. Some people see racism everywhere. Something bad happens to a black person- call it racism. Story doesn’t fit? Make it up, report it anyway. Video doesn’t fit the narrative? Edit it. 911 call not racist? No problem, a little clip here, a little clip there, ready for the evening news. 

If we really want to combat racism, we cannot encourage it. It’s not okay to be racist, no matter what justification you think you have. 

 

Wasn't judging anyone, didn't say all white people are guilty, didn't even say every white person is racist, I didnt say white people are evil. No one owes me anything. The rest of your post I'll decline to speak on.  

yupididit
yupididit UberDork
5/23/20 2:50 p.m.

Didn't think I'd have to defend against statements I didn't even make. I specifically stated I'm not judging anyone nor am I judging a whole. In regards to racism against white people, I never tried to justify it.

Just tried to give my (a black man in America) point of view. 

 

With that said. I'M DONE HERE

Boost_Crazy
Boost_Crazy HalfDork
5/23/20 3:37 p.m.

In reply to yupididit :

Your words, not mine...

Being a white heterosexual male (WHM to save typing), throughout the past 1000+ years or so the WHM has oppressed murdered colonized and waged terror on most of the world. The WHM has also completely erased cultures and groups of people off the face of the earth simply because they weren't a WHM. Think about it. After hundreds of years of this going on, it takes a toll and establishes a perception of WHM's. Your ancestors were scary and down right evil to their fellow humans.

You also doubled down on “holding you accountable to correct and make right the sins of your fathers.” 

I don’t dispute that’s were some truly evil people in the past. I’d just like to see how you connected the dots to people of today. 

Maybe I misunderstood you. Who’s ancestors  were evil, and exactly who is responsible for correcting the sins of their fathers?

 

 

 

APEowner
APEowner Dork
5/23/20 3:49 p.m.
yupididit said:

Didn't think I'd have to defend against statements I didn't even make. I specifically stated I'm not judging anyone nor am I judging a whole. In regards to racism against white people, I never tried to justify it.

Just tried to give my (a black man in America) point of view. 

 

With that said. I'M DONE HERE

yupididit - I want to thank you for your input in this thread.  You showed a patience and restraint that I admire and I hope that your perspective helped people understand a little bit more of the problem.  I also hope that when you say that you're done here that you're only referring to this thread (which I think has run its course) and not the entire forum.

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