Learn me exterior doors...

So in January I bought myself a house. Yay for being house poor! It turns out that sometime before I bought it, the front door had been kicked in and the frame was shoddily repaired, causing the front door to not latch and close all the way. Turns out, prehung door frames are VERY thin pine, and mine has a 1"-1.5" gap all the way around it secured by two nails at the top and bottom. I installed a temporary fix by cutting that section of the frame out and installing some solid oak reinforcement to keep it shut and a bit stronger than before, but I'd really like to replace the whole frame and door with something a bit more...substantial. Are there any pre-hung frames out there that aren't super thin and crappy? I'm a big fan of DIY to make a solid door and frame, but my woodworking skills don't even approach my metalworking skills

Most residential prehung doors are built the same way. However, if your door is only nailed in at the top and bottom someone didn't install it correctly - you typically shim in between the door frame and the rough opening in multiple locations and nail them together.

It's a good idea to reinforce the area around the door lock, usually burglars will kick the door and split the frame in that area. You can get reinforced door catches with long hardened screws that go into the house framing, and you could look at fastening a piece of metal to the inner side of the frame to help prevent it splitting.

There's plenty of websites and videos out there with instructions on how to hang a prehung door, look at some of them to get more details.

Do you actually have an exterior door frame, or is it an interior frame improperly used?

Residential exterior door frames (jambs) are not really very thin, nor are they generally made of Pine.

They are generally 1 1/4" thick on the outside, and 3/4" thick on the inside (for an in-swinging door).

They look like this:

If you have one that looks like this, it is an interior frame, and inappropriate for exterior use:

And if you have one that looks like this, it's a total piece of crap. It's called a split jamb:

Stuart was right about the need for shims.

In reply to SVreX:

It's the split jamb! I have been looking at it for months thinking to myself "Self, how the hell is this secure?" I installed the

Really what I'd like to do is have a solid wood door and frame instead, but are those all custom? It doesn't need to be a prehung door, but not flimsy and hollow would be nice to have for a little security and better insulation in the winter.

It would also appear that the lack of shims has caused the door to come out of square. I installed the security plates on the hinges and striker plates, but without shims in there I doubt their effectiveness.

Yeah usually there are shims behind all three hinges and at least one screw in each hinge is long enough to get through to the framing. I've seen lots of other shimming plans on the latch side, but my preference is a shim top and bottom with screws through them and one on each side of the latch held in with finish nails and long enough latch plate screws to get to the framing. I generally don't shim the top on a quality door frame, just back fill with expanding foam.

There is no amount of shimming or security plates that will make a split jamb acceptable. That's a low budget interior door jamb.

Additionally, you just mentioned hollow core door. Exterior doors are not hollow core.

You have the equivalent of a cheap closet door being used as a front door. It has no security, no weather resistance, no insulation, and no weatherstripping. There is no patching this door- It's gotta go.

Now, back to your first post...

You referenced the deficiencies of "pre-hung doors", but you were actually referring to a cheap split jamb closet door. BIG difference.

The vast majority of exterior doors are pre-hung, not custom.

So, the "easy" button is to go to Lowes, buy a steel entry door of the proper size, and spend a Saturday ripping out the old door and frame and putting in the new one.

The simplest doors to get are steel doors. These really aren't bad. They look like a painted wood door, are reasonably well insulated, and have strong frames, weatherstripping, and door sills.

The one upgrade I would recommend is a rot-proof frame. This looks the same, but is not made of wood. It is made of composites or PVC, and won't rot. This would be a special order frame- they won't stock it.

You could also consider upgrading the door- wood, fiberglass (which looks like wood), etc.

Replacing a door is very DIY friendly, and can be learned easily from a few YouTube videos.

I just learned more about doors in the couple minutes it took me to read this thread than I had learned in the previous 36 years.

In reply to Nick_Comstock:

Well, you have probably not had the need!

I've installed several thousand in the same 36 years, so I had to learn a little.

I installed 52 this week.

SVreX wrote: In reply to Nick_Comstock: Well, you have probably not had the need! I've installed several thousand in the same 36 years, so I had to learn a little. I installed 52 this week.

Sorry to hear that. At least you probably didn't have to lift a 10' wide 6' tall 5 lite casement window monster on Monday morning to start the week like i did.

In reply to SVreX:

Thanks for all that! The door is definitely a steel exterior door with a window on it, but it just sounds (and feels) like there is no insulation in it. There is some weatherstripping, but it doesn't always line due to the previous damage to the door frame.

So is wood or fiberglass considered an upgrade over steel? It seems appropriately timed that Lowe's is having a sale on custom-order exterior doors

Simplest solution, if it is a standard door opening, i.e. 34x80, is to get out your sawzall and cut out the jamb and throw it away. Measure the rough opening and go to Lowes or HD and get a new prehung exterior door. Remember after installation to remove one of the jamb side hinge screws and replace it with a longer screw that will bite into the cripple stud. Good Luck

Steel exterior doors are generally just wood cored/steel clad, unless they are commercial doors. They are a bit aggravating up here in the winter- the steel on the outside is -40, the interior side is +20, and they shrink outside/stretch inside enough to make them hard to close.

In reply to crewperson:

A cripple stud is a short stud above a header or below a window sill.

The full height stud on either side of a door or window is known as a King stud.

The 2 short studs that support a header and define the sides of a window or door frame and are attached to the King studs ( the ones you are referring to), are typically known as Jack studs or Trimmer studs (I've heard other names, like Liners or Jamb studs), but not usually cripples.

But yeah, I agree about total replacement of the door and frame.

Streetwiseguy wrote: Steel exterior doors are generally just wood cored/steel clad, unless they are commercial doors. They are a bit aggravating up here in the winter- the steel on the outside is -40, the interior side is +20, and they shrink outside/stretch inside enough to make them hard to close.

A standard residential steel entry door is typically steel skin with foam core and wood edges. They generally have an R-Value of 5 or 6, which is much more than a wood door. You're right, they are a challenge in colder environments.

A standard commercial steel door has no insulation at all. The skins are welded to metal edges, and the cores are corrugated.

Do they sell canoes too?

Since this got dredged up, I wonder what is the best choice for replacing my "people door" on my detached garage. I replaced it a few years ago when the door itself was rusting and the frame was rotting away at the bottom. I went the cheap-prehung-steel-door-with-a-wood-frame-from-Lowe's route. Now, just three or four years later, the jamb is rotting away again. Can't keep paint on the crappy fingerjointed jamb made up of about 37 different scraps of wood. I guess I need to spend more money and get one that's either all steel or has a plastic jamb.

Pretty sure I don't want to buy from Home Lowe's Depot. What's a good brand of near-commercial quality steel exterior door?

SVreX wrote: There is no amount of shimming or security plates that will make a split jamb acceptable. That's a low budget interior door jamb. Additionally, you just mentioned hollow core door. Exterior doors are not hollow core. You have the equivalent of a cheap closet door being used as a front door. It has no security, no weather resistance, no insulation, and no weatherstripping. There is no patching this door- It's gotta go. Now, back to your first post... You referenced the deficiencies of "pre-hung doors", but you were actually referring to a cheap split jamb closet door. BIG difference. The vast majority of exterior doors are pre-hung, not custom. So, the "easy" button is to go to Lowes, buy a steel entry door of the proper size, and spend a Saturday ripping out the old door and frame and putting in the new one. The simplest doors to get are steel doors. These really aren't bad. They look like a painted wood door, are reasonably well insulated, and have strong frames, weatherstripping, and door sills. The one upgrade I would recommend is a rot-proof frame. This looks the same, but is not made of wood. It is made of composites or PVC, and won't rot. This would be a special order frame- they won't stock it. You could also consider upgrading the door- wood, fiberglass (which looks like wood), etc. Replacing a door is very DIY friendly, and can be learned easily from a few YouTube videos.

I have 2 doors (maybe 3) that I would like to replace. The front door I would like to go with wood (something like link 1 below) and for the exterior to garage door I would like something like link 2. What do you recommend for best value? Craigslist door? Pre hung? With frame?

Link 1: http://www.homedepot.com/p/JELD-WEN-32-in-x-80-in-Fan-Lite-Unfinished-Fir-Front-Door-Slab-5389-0/202036055?MERCH=REC--NavPLPHorizontal1_rr--NA--202036055--N

Link 2: http://www.homedepot.com/p/JELD-WEN-30-in-x-80-in-6-Panel-RH-Outswing-Primed-Steel-Prehung-Front-Door-THDJW166100282/202036450

In reply to 1988RedT2:

Same basic door can be had with a rot proof frame. It's made of PVC (but you have to special order it- they don't stock it).

Local lumberyards, big box stores, etc can all order them easily.

Something that hasn't been mentioned so far: If it is an exterior door it is a good idea to make it a 36"x80" door if possible.

I spent last weekend cutting out the people door opening in my garage (4" block with brick facing) so I could replace the 32" door the original builder put in back in 1955.

I'll offer that if you have the option of buying from a good, independent building supplier as opposed to Home Depot of Lowes, do so. Just about everything Home Depot sells has a unique part or model number. A door, a cordless drill, whatever. It's because the manufacturer makes a cheaper version for them.

I've personally compared the HD and not-HD versions of Schlage locksets and the HD ones are decidedly not as nicely made inside.

F U Canoe

And a little more food for thought; My dad has built four houses throughout his adult life (they are in the "final" one I believe, since they are semi-retired now). The last three of which have steel exterior doors with THICK real wood paneling, and mounted in 100% steel door frames/jams. NOBODY is going to kicking those doors open. However, my dad's budget for fully disguised burglary-proof doors is a little higher than most folks'.

DOHH!!! I just realized this got revananted by a canoe

In reply to WildScotsRacing:

Quite alright! This thread reminds me that I still need to do something with that door!