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1988RedT2
1988RedT2 MegaDork
3/30/21 2:01 p.m.

I've got these gray fibrous gaskets stuck on a few parts of the 13BT that are absolutely not coming off.  On iron parts, I can labor at them with a sharp razor blade, and get them off a molecule at a time.  On aluminum, I can't.  They are one with the metal. Is there a solvent that might eat the gasket and not the aluminum?  Heat?  Ritual sacrifice?  Chanting?

Help!

wearymicrobe
wearymicrobe PowerDork
3/30/21 2:03 p.m.

The magic bullet that we use here at the pro level is dry ice blasting. At home not sure. 

EvanB (Forum Supporter)
EvanB (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/30/21 3:05 p.m.

Methylene chloride?

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 MegaDork
3/30/21 3:10 p.m.
EvanB (Forum Supporter) said:

Methylene chloride?

Isn't that the stuff that used to be in carb and choke cleaner, but was too nasty and got axed by the EPA and the safety Nazis?  Don't get me wrong, I like playing with dangerous solvents as much as the next guy, but can you name a product that I can buy today that still uses it?

06HHR (Forum Supporter)
06HHR (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand Dork
3/30/21 3:18 p.m.
1988RedT2 said:
EvanB (Forum Supporter) said:

Methylene chloride?

Isn't that the stuff that used to be in carb and choke cleaner, but was too nasty and got axed by the EPA and the safety Nazis?  Don't get me wrong, I like playing with dangerous solvents as much as the next guy, but can you name a product that I can buy today that still uses it?

Yeah, this stuff LOCTITE 790  I think there was another thread about this stuff around here somewhere..

Ranger50
Ranger50 UltimaDork
3/30/21 3:34 p.m.

Finest prickle wheel available in a 90^ air grinder?

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 MegaDork
3/30/21 3:44 p.m.
06HHR (Forum Supporter) said:
1988RedT2 said:
EvanB (Forum Supporter) said:

Methylene chloride?

Isn't that the stuff that used to be in carb and choke cleaner, but was too nasty and got axed by the EPA and the safety Nazis?  Don't get me wrong, I like playing with dangerous solvents as much as the next guy, but can you name a product that I can buy today that still uses it?

Yeah, this stuff LOCTITE 790  I think there was another thread about this stuff around here somewhere..

My local Fastenal says he's got two cans in store.  I'm heading over first thing in the morning.

Thanks!

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
3/30/21 3:58 p.m.

Scotchbrite?

Brass bristle brush?

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/30/21 5:05 p.m.

Ooooo, not scotchbrite. I am not a fan of aluminum oxide in close proximity to engines. We lost a bunch of very expensive engines to alox about 17 years back.

Machine shop with a hot tank?

03Panther
03Panther SuperDork
3/30/21 5:23 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:

Ooooo, not scotchbrite. I am not a fan of aluminum oxide in close proximity to engines. We lost a bunch of very expensive engines to alox about 17 years back.

Machine shop with a hot tank?

Since I have used scotchbright around aluminum, I am interested in more info... I may need to change my ways!

Ranger50
Ranger50 UltimaDork
3/30/21 5:44 p.m.

Rolocs are a no-no, but nothing wrong with protecting potential ingestion with a hand scotchbrite pad and cleaning afterwards. At one point it was so bad GM even had to issue a TSB on the use of Rolocs which would deny the warranty claim.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/30/21 5:48 p.m.

Ours were heads and intake manifolds (particularly the latter) that had been cleaned/blasted with aluminum oxide media. From what we can tell, the media embedded in the aluminum so cleaning with an air gun didn't do anything. It came out under boost very quickly, more slowly without. The rings went immediately. So did the bearings including the bushings in the rods and the wristpins. Scored the hell out of the pistons. Engines were a total loss other than the crank and iron block.

We built one stroked and bored and worked turbo engine for a Car and Driver magazine test and it lasted a couple of hundred miles. We dropped our "good" head on the stock sub-100 mile short block because we had to get to the test and drove to California. It used something like 3 gallons of oil to get home. Lost something like 14+ engines, mostly for customers but also for our own competition use. We replaced them all on our own dime because the machine shop that did the blasting didn't believe us. We stopped using them and the problem disappeared. We do not do business with that machine shop anymore despite their reputation. You can just imagine what that cost us.

A few years later, when someone sent us a supercharger intake manifold that took out an engine. Guess what had been used to give it that special texture on the ports? By that point, we knew what the inside of an oxide engine looked like so we were able to figure that out pretty quickly.

While there may be ways to use a Scotchbrite pad safely around an engine, I certainly don't take the risk. The risk/benefit ratio is way out of whack.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
3/30/21 5:52 p.m.

Roloc scotchbrite discs are ok as long as the parts you are working on can be cleaned completely before they get near the engine.  The aluminum oxide floating around with the engine oil kinda works like sandpaper on the crankshaft bearings...

After that,  be really sure you don't use them so aggressively that you make the aluminum part look like the surface of a moonlit lake on a calm night.

Stefan (Forum Supporter)
Stefan (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
3/30/21 6:13 p.m.

shotgun?

cabbagecop
cabbagecop New Reader
3/30/21 6:36 p.m.

Carbide scrapers and heat is what works for me. 

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 MegaDork
3/30/21 6:47 p.m.
Stefan (Forum Supporter) said:

shotgun?

I think I may have deserved that! laugh

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
3/30/21 8:32 p.m.

Razor blades, used carefully to get UNDER the gasket.

And patience.

 

You can try carb cleaner to soften up the death grip they have, too.

 

+3 on no Roloc cookies near engine parts unless you can get them surgically clean afterward.  Learned that lesson the "oops I just bought an engine" way.

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
3/31/21 7:21 a.m.
Keith Tanner said:

Ours were heads and intake manifolds (particularly the latter) that had been cleaned/blasted with aluminum oxide media. From what we can tell, the media embedded in the aluminum so cleaning with an air gun didn't do anything. It came out under boost very quickly, more slowly without. The rings went immediately. So did the bearings including the bushings in the rods and the wristpins. Scored the hell out of the pistons. Engines were a total loss other than the crank and iron block.

We built one stroked and bored and worked turbo engine for a Car and Driver magazine test and it lasted a couple of hundred miles. We dropped our "good" head on the stock sub-100 mile short block because we had to get to the test and drove to California. It used something like 3 gallons of oil to get home. Lost something like 14+ engines, mostly for customers but also for our own competition use. We replaced them all on our own dime because the machine shop that did the blasting didn't believe us. We stopped using them and the problem disappeared. We do not do business with that machine shop anymore despite their reputation. You can just imagine what that cost us.

A few years later, when someone sent us a supercharger intake manifold that took out an engine. Guess what had been used to give it that special texture on the ports? By that point, we knew what the inside of an oxide engine looked like so we were able to figure that out pretty quickly.

While there may be ways to use a Scotchbrite pad safely around an engine, I certainly don't take the risk. The risk/benefit ratio is way out of whack.

Thanks for the heads up. Most of the engine parts I've needed to clean lately have been iron or steel, so I hadn't given much thought to those sticking to aluminum.

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 MegaDork
3/31/21 7:58 a.m.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:

Razor blades, used carefully to get UNDER the gasket.

And patience.

 

In this case, there's no "getting under."  The bond between the gasket and the aluminum is far stronger than the gasket itself.  Even on the iron parts, I'm having to remove most of the gasket first, then painstakingly scrape off the remainder.

I'm thinking I should have applied heat at the start.

Off to Fastenal to pick up the magic bullet!

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 MegaDork
3/31/21 8:56 a.m.

....Annnnnd, my disillusionment with retail, even specialty retail, is complete. 

They didn't have any.

What good is an inventory system if your employees don't use it properly?

06HHR (Forum Supporter)
06HHR (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand Dork
3/31/21 9:39 a.m.

In reply to 1988RedT2 :

BTDT - IMHO it's the #1 reason Amazon, eBay, Rock Auto et al have boomed over the last 20 years.  I'd say 80 - 90 percent of the time i'm ordering online is the simple fact that what i want (or need) is just not available locally.  The local FLAPS all carry the same parts at the same prices, they might as well be the same store..  The fact that the prices are often cheaper even with shipping are just icing on the cake.  Hate it, but that's just the way it is right now. /rant over

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 MegaDork
3/31/21 10:20 a.m.

In reply to 06HHR (Forum Supporter) :

Totally agree.

In the interest of pushing this project ahead, I soaked the gasket remnants in question with a bit of every nasty solvent I could find on my shelf.  Brake cleaner seemed to soften the very top layer just enough to coax it off with a sharp razor blade.  Naturally, I had to work very carefully to avoid gouging the aluminum. 

The only downside so far is that I have a bit of a headache.  Well, that and the fact that while I would normally expect to see some people in my neighborhood taking a walk, this morning it's been the appearance of peculiar beings wearing Spring clothing but having the heads of praying mantises.  Somewhat disturbing to say the least.  Anybody else seeing these things?

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 MegaDork
3/31/21 10:30 a.m.

Naturally, you all would assume I was insane without some proof, so I offer you this photograph, taken just a few minutes ago:

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/ea/bd/88/eabd881683d8395cafc64f06ef1cba6d.jpg

Ranger50
Ranger50 UltimaDork
3/31/21 10:43 a.m.

In reply to 1988RedT2 :

Because of what is called "shrink", or undocumented purchases/purchasing. The only way to fix it is continuous visual inventory updates when you find a discrepancy and not when the real count is zero. Rarely, do you find employees that even know about this process.

TurnerX19
TurnerX19 UltraDork
3/31/21 12:42 p.m.

In reply to 1988RedT2 :

That doesn't look like spring clothing.....

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