Man dies after being run over during attempted catalytic converter theft in Sacramento

In reply to wae :

I'm not saying we should execute people for any and all crimes, but this guy chose to put himself in that position when he decided to crawl under a vehicle that could start up and be moved at any time to commit a crime. If he hadn't chosen to get under the vehicle and vandalize someone's vehicle and steal something, then he couldn't have been run over. If it was intentional by the owner/driver, now that's berkeleyed up. But if the guy didn't realize he was under there and just got in and took off, I don't feel that sympathetic. If that makes me a cold-hearted SOB, then I'm a cold-hearted SOB.

I think this is a big enough problem that they need to track down who the thief's are selling the Cats too , 

my neighbors Honda Cat was stolen and it was $3500 to replace at the Honda dealer , 

that is a lot more than petty theft ,

For those of you who don't get the reference...

RX Reven' said:

24 posts and nobody has done the pun yet...fine, whatever, I'll do it.

What a cat-astrophe. 

About a year ago here in Los Angeles, a guy was found crushed under a car with a sawzall and his shoes nearby.

It was suspected that he had an accomplice that tried to pull him out by his feet and his shoes popped off.

There's an award for that!

The Cat Ass Trophy!

wae said:

Wow.  Tragic.

I fully support arresting, charging, trying, convicting, sentencing, and imprisoning thieves, but I thought we had gotten past the point of wanting to execute people for property crimes.  I guess we should tell North Korea and Saudi Arabia that we're coming around on that.

I don't think anyone is advocating for the death penalty for cat theft. 

But if karma takes them out of the gene pool I certainly won't lose any sleep over it.

wae said:

Wow.  Tragic.

I fully support arresting, charging, trying, convicting, sentencing, and imprisoning thieves, but I thought we had gotten past the point of wanting to execute people for property crimes.  I guess we should tell North Korea and Saudi Arabia that we're coming around on that.

Since in the big picture our individual opinions as expressed on the internet are about as important as a piece of gum on the bottom of a park bench, I see absolutely nothing wrong with engaging in schadenfreude. Remember that you are dealing with the internet versions of us, not our "real life" versions. In the real world I believe in due process. Here I find that fantasies about hanging thieves up by their thumbs and using them for archery target practice are....mildly cathartic. 

Houston crime: Thieves may have been taking catalytic converter when they were shot at, HPD says - ABC13 Houston

wae said:

Wow.  Tragic.

I fully support arresting, charging, trying, convicting, sentencing, and imprisoning thieves, but I thought we had gotten past the point of wanting to execute people for property crimes.  I guess we should tell North Korea and Saudi Arabia that we're coming around on that.

Tragic, yes.

But the rest of the post is a bit off the mark me thinks...

Nobody WANTED this person to die for this, but if you are being an idiot and stealing cats AND putting yourself in an unsafe position, welp, here is your Darwin award.

ProDarwin said:

wae said:

Wow.  Tragic.

I fully support arresting, charging, trying, convicting, sentencing, and imprisoning thieves, but I thought we had gotten past the point of wanting to execute people for property crimes.  

This.

Some of the reactions in this thread are surprising.

Your comment is ironically incongruous with your screen name.  Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.   Dead guy made bad choices, hopefully he did not reproduce prior to his demise.

They do not prosecute property crimes in California any more, not really, which I thought was common knowledge.  Property crime skyrocketed after that law passed.  They are closing stores all over downtown SF because of this  laughed out loud at the virtue signaling "haven't we moved past wanting to execute someone for theft" when literally no one suggested that.

This happened in a hospital parking lot at 0445.  Guy gets in his car to leave and kills the guy under the car trying to steal his catalytic converter. 

I did not run this guy over.  If I had run over the guy who stole one off my wife's car, I would not feel bad about it even a little bit.

wae said:

Wow.  Tragic.

Nope - stupid.  Stupidity can be tragic indeed for the species as a whole, but on the individual level stupid is just... stupid.

wae said:

I fully support arresting, charging, trying, convicting, sentencing, and imprisoning thieves, but I thought we had gotten past the point of wanting to execute people for property crimes.  I guess we should tell North Korea and Saudi Arabia that we're coming around on that.

See "stupid" comment above.

This was not a person going out to look for thieves and playing vigilante when they thought they saw one.  That would have been tragic and reprehensible. 

This was a stupid person killed by their own stupidity.  Being stupid should hurt.  Even to the point of fatality.

In reply to Duke :

Just playing devil's advocate for a second, are we sure the car's owner didn't know about the thief? or was it a 'Berk you, I'll show you!' moment? Not saying it WAS, but I don't know. 

In reply to ian sane :

That's why I worded my remark the way I did. If it was intentional it was wrong, although still the situation could not have happened if the guy hadn't chosen to get under the car and commit a crime. Doesn't make running him over right, but it's still largely on the guy stealing E36 M3. 

wvumtnbkr said:

wae said:

Wow.  Tragic.

I fully support arresting, charging, trying, convicting, sentencing, and imprisoning thieves, but I thought we had gotten past the point of wanting to execute people for property crimes.  I guess we should tell North Korea and Saudi Arabia that we're coming around on that.

Tragic, yes.

 

But the rest of the post is a bit off the mark me thinks...

 

Nobody WANTED this person to die for this, but if you are being an idiot and stealing cats AND putting yourself in an unsafe position, welp, here is your Darwin award.

I don't shed a tear over someone like the cat thief taking themselves out through stupidity while committing a crime against someone. A drunk driver crashes and kills himself? Good. Now he can't kill me or my family the next time he drives. 

Decisions have consequences. 

Play stupid games. Win stupid prizes.

I brought two cats to the scrapper, he wanted two IDs and played 20 questions before begrudgingly paying off.

Where would you possibly sell a truck full?

Friend of mine called me yesterday wanting advice.  A fairly low income acquaintance of his had the cat stolen off her high mileage, beat up Prius.  She doesn't have full coverage insurance and certainly can't afford the $2,500 replacement.   So this theft will cause the car to be scrapped and she'll be buying a new used car at a buy-here pay-here lot and have to squeeze $300 a month out of her budget for the next 4 years.   
 

If more thieves got squashed, maybe they would hesitate before stealing and causing so many problems in their victims lives.

I consider myself pretty empathetic but put me in the no sympathy for this guy camp. He set out to make money by directly hurting people that did nothing to him. I wouldn't advocate killing as a punishment for stealing, but if you get killed while stealing that's on you. I doubt society is losing much with this guys passing.

KyAllroad said:

Friend of mine called me yesterday wanting advice.  A fairly low income acquaintance of his had the cat stolen off her high mileage, beat up Prius.  She doesn't have full coverage insurance and certainly can't afford the $2,500 replacement.   So this theft will cause the car to be scrapped and she'll be buying a new used car at a buy-here pay-here lot and have to squeeze $300 a month out of her budget for the next 4 years.   
 

If more thieves got squashed, maybe they would hesitate before stealing and causing so many problems in their victims lives.

There are cheapo Prius cats available on Amazon and Ebay for less than $100.  Add in an 02 sensor for another $25.  These cheapos might not satisfy the emissions/Check engine light but they will make the car quiet and drivable.  I bet there's a inner city "we weld custom pipe" type shop that will have her "good enough" for $500 or less.  

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/prius-log-stardate-3-26-point-22/193000/page2/#post3453662

gearheadmb said:

I wouldn't advocate killing as a punishment for stealing, but if you get killed while stealing that's on you.

That right there is the difference between this situation and excessive punishment for a property crime.

John Welsh said:

KyAllroad said:

Friend of mine called me yesterday wanting advice.  A fairly low income acquaintance of his had the cat stolen off her high mileage, beat up Prius.  She doesn't have full coverage insurance and certainly can't afford the $2,500 replacement.   So this theft will cause the car to be scrapped and she'll be buying a new used car at a buy-here pay-here lot and have to squeeze $300 a month out of her budget for the next 4 years.   
 

If more thieves got squashed, maybe they would hesitate before stealing and causing so many problems in their victims lives.

There are cheapo Prius cats available on Amazon and Ebay for less than $100.  Add in an 02 sensor for another $25.  These cheapos might not satisfy the emissions/Check engine light but they will make the car quiet and drivable.  I bet there's a inner city "we weld custom pipe" type shop that will have her "good enough" for $500 or less.  

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/prius-log-stardate-3-26-point-22/193000/page2/#post3453662

This is very good advice, and applies to pretty much every state. It doesn't help in California, because they will only allow it to pass with the OEM cat, but even in most other states that DO have emissions, there is a less expensive cat that's good enough to keep the check engine light off.

I think we should take efficiency into consideration when determining how heinous a crime is.

If someone steals $1,000, they gain the same amount as the victim loses (100% efficiency)...if someone steals a catalytic converter, they gain $50 and the victim loses $1,700 (3% efficiency).

In my mind, a cat burglar (intentional pun) indicates a much higher level of disregard for the harm they're imposing on others and I think it would be appropriate to inflict a much greater level of punishment in response.

Thoughts?   

In reply to RX Reven' :

We already do that. People are (theoretically) liable for or punished based on the total damages they cause, not for the benefit they gain.

If someone grafittis a building, they are liable for the full cost of to clean or repair the damages even though it didn't profit them anything.

In reply to Beer Baron :

I think in the case of graffiti, unless it's to claim ownership of a drug distribution area, it's not about financial gain, it's about art or diminishing value out of resentment.

I agree that we only look at the victim's cost and not the perp's gain...I'm suggesting we start taking that into consideration.

Doesn't a 3% efficiency criminal suggest a lower level of regard for others than a 100% efficiency criminal? 

RX Reven' said:

Doesn't a 3% efficiency criminal suggest a lower level of regard for others than a 100% efficiency criminal? 

No. It suggests greater opportunistic desperation.

Someone who swindles an old person out of all their savings is 100% efficient, with a much lower level of regard for others than someone who steals catalytic converters.