PING: The GRM Forza crowd..

Update on the Virtual Improved Touring Project!

Well, first..at least I've finally started it.. I started with ITC, since that's the slowest class, and I was feeling a little slow.

Seems like to get realistic lap times for any particular "real world" car class, it seems that most cars can't be modded to the top of a Forza group. To make this happen, we'll have to set lobbies at a particular PI level (which is fortunately back in FM4). My research so far: lap record at Road Atlanta for ITC is a 1st gen CRX (not available in the game) at 1:49:578.

I built three cars, and tweaked them to get close to that time. First was a VW Scirroco, built to E246. Best lap, 1:53:725. Next, a Datsun 510, built to E243. Best lap, 1:54:539. Last, the Ford Pinto, built to E250. Crazy thing...I cut a 1:52:446 in that car, even though I'd had about six beers in me when I built & drove it!!

After considering my basic lack of talent, combined with my alcohol consumption tonight, I think an accurate approximation of an ITC car is right around an E250 in Forza 4. My best lap time is right around 3sec. off the lap record, and that's probably what it would be if I was driving in the real world (sober, and worried about hitting the concrete..). I also tried to get these things to "feel" like an Improved Touring car while I focused upon the lap times..basic list of mods seems to be Sport tire compound, Sport springs/dampers, and then increased tire width (205s or so) front & rear, lighter wheels, and then playing around with weight reduction/intake/exhaust to get them close to E350.

I've added copies of all three cars as "bodies in white" to our club garage (I'm friedgrncorrado in there). Folks that know what a good ITC time is around Road America, Laguna Seca, Sears Point, and Sebring..run my cars, and gimme some feedback!

EDIT: Tire pressures are for races of 12-20mi. Longer than Forza's career mode races for E class, but only about half of a real SCCA race.

FGC - I can hear you, but y'all don't seem to hear me... I think my headset is being lame :p

Good racin'! We were neck and neck for a couple laps the first race!

PS, sorry for the threadjack... carry on :D

Oh, I Totally want to be in on this. Even better, Im going to start being off on friday and Saturday nights now.

Is there going to be a opportunity to build/tune our own cars, or?

well let me build a car and tune and see what I can finish last in....so I:50 you say with a 245 index.... give me a day or so ....

We had great races tonight! None were the VITP, tho. I didn't set up the lobby for it, since the concept is new, and nobody's built cars for it yet. And I still have to do the research for anything other than ITC (which will be a solid E250).

In reply to friedgreencorrado:

I liked the Scirroco. Got faster as I got used to it. The Pinto was a rocket ship but was tail happy....At least for me it was.

Yeah, great racing wit youse guys! Had a few interlopers try to spoil the fun....but they got "handled "

Okay, so I did some laps @ Atlanta:

I did 6 test laps in your 510 with a 1:50.473 fastest lap

1:50.415 in the Pinto in 4 laps

a 1:50.860 in the VW in 5 laps. Pretty tired for this one though, theres more there.

Well, theres more on each car, a diff and tune can really get the times lower then that CRX record.

So whats the plan here? Are we just going to build a E250 car? or are there parts restrictions?

I think there should be. Also I'd make it no diffs, no trac control and no ABS. Having to control the wheelspin myself on the cars (I dont use TCS) becase of the open diff was fun, and will involve the drivers more.

I cant wait to make a car & livery for this.

Edit- I'm thinking... You could also make a 'claim rule' of sorts for this. Make everyone upload their car with "ITC" or whatever sticker on the side. If one guys car turns out to be a ringer, Everyone can pick it (if they so choose) next race. Eh?

Just did a 1:50.207 in a E250 prepped Escort @ Atlanta. This good?

Mods: Street brakes, Sport dampers, Sport anti roll bars, Sport chassis reinforcement, Street driveline, Sport tire compound, Race front bumper, Race wing.

Well, there aren't any downforce mods allowed in Improved Touring, unless the car came from the factory with it. And limited slip diffs are allowed. We ran a Lincoln Locker in our ITC Corolla.

Oh, okay. I dont know the IT rules.

I was just talking about the diff thing because Corrado's cars, esp the 510 need it. Im so used to running them ALL the time in the game, I had no idea it was so fun having to worry about controlling my throttle to keep wheelspin down.

Changed the escort mods to: Race brakes, Sport Dampers, Sport anti rolls, Street weight reduction, Street driveline, Street tires, and lighter wheels. Did a 1:49.593 @ Atlanta. Too fast, or?

Limited slip would be good. As racerfink says, they're legal in IT. I think simply building to E250 (without aero) would keep lap times & the handling feel realistic. They're very much momentum cars, on DOT tires. My basic guideline was going to the Sport compound, increasing the size to 205s, taking out some weight & throwing a race exhaust & intake on it (in IT, no internal engine mods). Added bits & pieces to get it closer to 250 after that, but staying within the "theme" of the IT rules (flywheels, ignition..gotta remember the limited slip!). Although suspension tuning is legal in IT, adding the right parts in Forza results in lap times way quicker than in real life, so all my suspension tuning was done with tire pressures.

For folks unfamiliar with Improved Touring, it's kind of the same principle as Spec Miata. Warmed-over street cars (in SCCA, we used to say it was where old Showroom Stock cars went to die ). I'd really like to keep that "feel" to it. I guess I'm trying to borrow Forza's software to make a Club Racing sim.

I really like the way that Scirroco feels to drive, it reminds me a lot of my old IT Mk.1 Golf.

BobOfTheFuture wrote: I cant wait to make a car & livery for this. Edit- I'm thinking... You could also make a 'claim rule' of sorts for this. Make everyone upload their car with "ITC" or whatever sticker on the side. If one guys car turns out to be a ringer, Everyone can pick it (if they so choose) next race. Eh?

Heh, heh..RL liveries require class designation. I've actually got a lot of the club stickers on my Forza 3 Marketplace, does anyone know if you can import F3 graphics into 4? I've redone the SCCA Club Racing sticker, I'll upload it when I get online.

Not mine..but this one was :

EDIT: "real life liveries"

I've got the Club Racing and SARRC stickers on my storefront. I'll send them to you. You can import all your saved sticker designs (not car liveries though) to FM4, but you have to import EVERY one of them. No picking and choosing.

I threw a corvair together E245. But it's probably not legal though. Race brakes and rubber. Swaybars. Stock trans, sport exhaust and air filter. It's in the club garage.

Built a 250 Corvair. Did 1:49.211 at Atlanta.

Corvair would actually be an ITA car (the classes are divided by displacement, basically), per the SCCA GCR. I'll get to ITA eventually.. IIRC, a good ITA time around Rd Atl these days is right around the low 1:40s (don't know the record), if y'all would like to help with the research. (hint, hint!)

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/assets/2012GCR-updatedMarch.pdf

p.426 of the .pdf, (if you surf through the whole thing, now you know what the NASA guys are talking about when they say things about the SCCA rulebook!)

Current real world eligible cars for ITC start at page 446 of the .pdf at the link above. Cars like that is what we want. There are plenty of cool cars in the game, and there will be homes for plenty of them when we figure out what an ITB-ITA-ITS-ITB lap time is.

I'm trying to split the difference between anal & fun, I guess..again--think about pretending to be a real race series, instead of the best way to play Forza. Of course, if it's too far on the "anal" side, we can just give it up. I just thought it would be fun.

64chrysler300 wrote: I threw a corvair together E245. But it's probably not legal though. Race brakes and rubber. Swaybars. Stock trans, sport exhaust and air filter. It's in the club garage.

Yeah, no race brakes, and no race rubber allowed in Improved Touring. Just DOT race tires (sport), and the pad upgrade (street) are allowed on those particular mods.

In reply to racerfink:

Okay, I'll swap 'em out when I get home from work tonight. Although, race brakes and Sport brakes had the same PI, race brakes were a smidge lighter weight wise.

no race rubber? awww man! b-b-but it sticks so well in the corners!

64chrysler300 wrote: In reply to racerfink: Okay, I'll swap 'em out when I get home from work tonight. Although, race brakes and Sport brakes had the same PI, race brakes were a smidge lighter weight wise. no race rubber? awww man! b-b-but it sticks so well in the corners!

Hmm...makes me want to do the research on Production classes as well! I'd love a DP Corvair. Still kicking myself that I missed the 2011 Mitty, James Reeve came back!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq2uadljGUE

Looks like ITS is going to be a C425. Road Atlanta (real life) record is a 1:38.360. Crazy cars to get close to real world lap times while trying to stick to the real world construction concept. All have full weight reduction, just to try to get them half as fast as the real cars without having to resort to internal engine mods. Y'all who are more into Forza as a game might actually like this. It's like S class, but a touch slower. Good power for a Forza C car, but on E36 M3 tires with E36 M3 brakes. Remember to haul that baby down early in my lobbies folks! Suggested line (spit) is off, and damage is on.

Datsun 240z (game's got the Fairlady, RHD in cockpit view), 1:41.528.
2nd gen Supra, 1:42.413 (would be faster with tuning).
VW Corrado, 1:43.033 (y'all know I had to try it! ).
Only Mazda FC RX-7 I could find in the game was turbo. No turbos in IT..more for safety than performance. When the class was created, we decided we didn't want 20yr old turbo cars spilling their guts into the road when they blow.

All lap times created under the same environment as those for ITC..driver is midpack hack and has been drinking beer as well.

Uploading to the club garage as "bodies in white".

EDIT: Oh, and 205s aren't big enough on these cars..go as big as you can. IIRC, the Supra & the Corrado are both on 225s or larger. I guess I should have told y'all that the cars I upload to the team garage are just templates..copy the setup, and then tune your own!

Seems like we would be able to use the full Race suspension if it weren't for the part in bold (copied from the GCR):

b. Springs and Shock Absorbers 1. Shock absorbers may be replaced provided that the replacements (a) attach to the original mounting points, and (b) are of a non-remote-reservoir design.

In reply to friedgreencorrado:

So full weight reduction, no internal engine mods, sport brakes and tires (IE: no full zoot race rubber or brakes, right?). No aero? No engine upgrades (V-6 to V-8 etc), no turdblows or super chargers.

Any car? or just certain types....(no, I won't run a truck, tempting as that is LOL!)

Hmm....tuned 4 cars C425. Barracuda 2:55, C-1 Vette 2:50, C-2 Vette 2:49 and drum roll please, Corvair, 2:47 all at Road America with a baby sleeping on my lap (that's my racing excuse for today LOL!) The 'vair was the slowest speed wise, but handled the best. All cars sport brakes, no race rubber, stock transmissions, sport swaybars, no aero, as much weight reduction as possible, external engine mods only (air filter, plugs, exhaust, carb, ignition)