Pistol for self defense?

mad_machine wrote: In a home setting.. a shotgun is point and shoot, no need for careful aim because of the closed confines

Demonstrably untrue. Inside a typical home, the shot does not spread enough to guarantee a hit. Shoulder and aim.

With long guns at close quarters, it is easier for a bad guy to deflect or control the muzzle. There's just more to grab.

Shotguns have their place, but they have to be handled properly, and hits are NOT guaranteed.

Ranges that will let you practice with defensive shotguns (assorted ammunition, multiple targets, etc, are not as common as pistol ranges.

wlkelley3 wrote: if she needs one where she lives then move her to a different part of town where she wouldn't need one.

And where, pray tell, is this place where bad things never happen? I keep looking ...

^Be paranoid all you want, but there are plenty of neighborhoods where that isn't a "real" concern.

I'm sure I'll pay saying this, buy my house was built in 1972, never had a deadbolt, never been broken-in too. My family house (same town, other side of the river) built in 1919, never been burglarized.

When I did this for myself, I ended up with a Smith and Wesson Model 10 revolver in .38 special. No safeties to have to figure out when the moment of panic happens, always ready to shoot if loaded. Plus I found revolvers far more comfortable, the ammo is reasonably priced to shoot with, and if you get a modern varient that can shoot .357mag too you've got a great manstopper. Full frame, not a snubbie.

Doing it again, I'd get a short barrled shotgun and keep some 00buck ready and preferably a longer barrel for going hunting, shooting skeet or trap, etc.

I keep a nice Czech handgun around.. 9mm with a decocker.

Are you honestly concerned about her safety? Or is "home defense" just an excuse to have a gun. My girlfriend has been talking about getting herself a home defense/zombie apocalypse gun. She's really just interested in getting a gun, and figures she'd like whatever she gets to also be functional in the very unlikely "home defense" scenario.

If you really want the most effective home-defense tool to keep her safe, do not go to an armory. Go to an animal shelter and pick up something along these lines:

Now, she'll probably want to check out a couple of different models to find the right best size, fit, and handling model for her. Seriously, a dog, any dog, is the best defense against a break-in.

But if she wants a gun to have a gun, just go try things out and decide what she likes best.

Part of it is she wants a gun. Part is we live in different towns and it would be nice to know she has something to protect herself with. She really doesn't live somewhere unsafe but still you never know.

slantvaliant wrote:

mad_machine wrote: In a home setting.. a shotgun is point and shoot, no need for careful aim because of the closed confines

Demonstrably untrue. Inside a typical home, the shot does not spread enough to guarantee a hit. Shoulder and aim. With long guns at close quarters, it is easier for a bad guy to deflect or control the muzzle. There's just more to grab. Shotguns have their place, but they have to be handled properly, and hits are NOT guaranteed. Ranges that will let you practice with defensive shotguns (assorted ammunition, multiple targets, etc, are not as common as pistol ranges.

wlkelley3 wrote: if she needs one where she lives then move her to a different part of town where she wouldn't need one.

And where, pray tell, is this place where bad things never happen? I keep looking ...

I know you already covered it, but I'm really tired of reading/hearing people say you don't have to aim a shotgun in home defense situation. Movies have taught people some weird misconceptions about guns. I've seen plenty of people miss with shotguns. The appeal of shotguns to me as a home defense gun is the good combination of cheapness, reliability, stopping power and limits of penetration. To me, the $200 tax stamp on an SBS is worth it for the versatility it affords.

Aside from the obvious things like make sure it's reliable, cheap to shoot, and comfortable for her, make sure she's mentally prepared to use it. If you draw on someone, you'd better be prepared to take his life - have a serious conversation about that, because if she isn't 100% sure she's capable of killing, she's better off not having the weapon.

Salanis wrote: Are you honestly concerned about her safety? Or is "home defense" just an excuse to have a gun. My girlfriend has been talking about getting herself a home defense/zombie apocalypse gun. She's really just interested in getting a gun, and figures she'd like whatever she gets to also be functional in the very unlikely "home defense" scenario. If you really want the most effective home-defense tool to keep her safe, do not go to an armory. Go to an animal shelter and pick up something along these lines: Now, she'll probably want to check out a couple of different models to find the right best size, fit, and handling model for her. Seriously, a dog, *any* dog, is the best defense against a break-in. But if she wants a gun to have a gun, just go try things out and decide what she likes best.

I agree here. There is a primal fear when a snarling dog starts running at you barking

Yeah, but they don't all snarl and bark.

We had a break in on Feb. 2 (last Super Bowl party I attend), with a 75# male pit mix left to guard the house. He looks menacing for all of 1 second until you realize he's a big softy - though he does sound vicious to other dogs outside the fence. He was effectively disarmed through a combination of his own nervous uncertainty and the smoked pork jowl from our own meat drawer. Yeah.

So, just any dog ain't a guard dog, despite breed and/or assumed disposition.

I just thank the berkeleyer that robbed us for taking the time to make sure our dog got back inside (evident from the footprints chasing him around the yard) and didn't let him escape from the fence the shiny happy person kicked in to get into our yard.

For a house gun and a carry gun I prefer 1911's personally, but if you are looking for a low kick wheel gun the .38 tends to be the way to go.

Personally if you really want a handgun I'd look at a J frame S&W.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_764932_-1_757768_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

It'll shoot .357 mags and .38 special+p and is heavy enough that the recoil with from .38 hollow points will not be an issue. If you wheel and deal you can probably find a set of Crimson Trace grips and the gun together for under 800.

For a house mouse I also currently use (well, used since I'm out of the states) a 1911 and I was pretty happy with it but there were a few things I didn't like.

1) constantly compressed magazine spring. I use the same magazines at home and at the range, and I've never had an issue, it just makes me feel uncomfortable. I fear that the spring will "settle" and lead to feed problems at the worst possible moment.

2) My wife couldn't operate the slide. Doesn't sound like this is going to be a problem for you.

Last time I visited my inlaws I bought a Smith model 19 at a gun show and have been pretty happy with it. I'm thinking it'll become the next "house mouse". I like the variety of ammunition the .357 offers, and I like the .38 option for the wife. (who can shoot, but doesn't enjoy it as a hobby like I do) Aside from that, its easy to operate, very reliable, there's a huge variety of ammunition available, and the "crap your pants" factor when you're on the wrong side is definitely there.

I've also found that if the slides on automatics are pushed back a bit, the gun doesn't always "go off". I like the idea that if the spit really hits the fan, my wife can jam the revolver into the assailants gut and "let a few fly". (of course I hope that never happens) Furthermore, I feel more comfortable keeping 5 or 6 in a revolver than I do keeping 6 or7 in my 1911 (back to the magazine spring issue)

I also remember Smith offering a "chiefs special" that I was also thinking of looking into. It was a 5-shot small framed .38. I liked the idea of it, but have never see one in person.

anyhoo, good luck and be safe!

Second or third or whatever the .357 revolver option. With a new set of grips and springs my Ruger is so easy to shoot and shoot well I can't imagine anything else as my go-to.

And there is really only 3 parts to clean and ammo is cheap, so no reason not to spend plenty of time practising.

z31maniac wrote: ^Be paranoid all you want, but there are plenty of neighborhoods where that isn't a "real" concern. I'm sure I'll pay saying this, buy my house was built in 1972, never had a deadbolt, never been broken-in too. My family house (same town, other side of the river) built in 1919, never been burglarized.

All it takes is once.

I've been driving more than 35 years and have never been in a collision where a seatbelt made a difference for me. Am I paranoid for wearing one every time I drive or ride?

I've never had a house fire. Does keeping fire extinguishers ready make me paranoid?

I'm hardly paranoid. I do, however, pay attention.

I haven't read through every comment, but most.

First off, don't make me link to the thread I added a while back about the guy who was holding his girl's pink revolver as he walked into a fast food joint and the gun went off injuring him in the penis.

Secondly, I carry at work and at play. On the job, I carry a Model 64 Smith & Wesson four inch barrel .38 special. It is not by choice. I would carry an auto if I could. In three years I have broken one of them and I take very good care of my life lines.

A Glock would be OK, an xD would be better (less plastic), an xD-M would be even better (highest capacity).

Off duty I carry a Ruger P345 .45 auto. It is light weight, kind of bulky, as accurate as a 1911, and safer than a 1911 due to a decocker, and double action trigger. A .45 takes some getting used to due to the recoil, but once at the range, anyone would be fine.

A dog is a good idea, but not a fail-safe. I've got my 100 lb Shepherd for initial attack, an 8 lb cat with claws for secondary, third is the .45 and if they have reinforcements, the .308 will peg them from a good distance.

Feel free to get at me via PM. Physical security is my business, not only with the full time job, but the secondary as well.

cwh wrote: I believe they even have pink ones, for those of us that are confidant with our manliness.

I'm sorry to threadjack, but can someone please explain the pink gun thing to me? Idungeddit.

Here are somethings to consider

Handgun rounds can go through 12 or more layers of drywall. Drywall is fantastic at plugging Hollow point cavities and the handgun rounds just around moving fast enough to fragment.

If it's just a house gun avoid anything snub nose or compact. You're losing useful barrel length for no reason. Any of the common calibers will be fine as long as you use suitable ammo. Look at the M&P series because they have very ergonomic grips that fit much better than Glocks IMO.

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm

Dr. Roberts is a fantastic source for information. I base all of my defensive ammo purchases off of his information.

Pistols also have several downsides. The short sight radius means you have to put in a lot of range time to hit what you're aiming at. No gun is self aiming, but long guns like Carbines or shotguns are more natural to aim with.

Consider the 20-gauge shotgun.

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob120.html

EDIT: Also, if you're worried about the effectiveness of a pistol rounds here is real life data on the most popular calibers. http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866

offers enough penetration to take down a man

Nobody is going to run with one? Really? Did we get all mature suddenly?

Duke wrote: I'm sorry to threadjack, but can someone **please** explain the pink gun thing to me? Idungeddit.

Otto Maddox wrote: offers enough penetration to take down a man Nobody is going to run with one? Really? Did we get all mature suddenly?

Giggity

Hungary Bill wrote: For a house mouse I also currently use (well, used since I'm out of the states) a 1911 and I was pretty happy with it but there were a few things I didn't like. 1) constantly compressed magazine spring. I use the same magazines at home and at the range, and I've never had an issue, it just makes me feel uncomfortable. I fear that the spring will "settle" and lead to feed problems at the worst possible moment. 2) My wife couldn't operate the slide. Doesn't sound like this is going to be a problem for you. Last time I visited my inlaws I bought a Smith model 19 at a gun show and have been pretty happy with it. I'm thinking it'll become the next "house mouse". I like the variety of ammunition the .357 offers, and I like the .38 option for the wife. (who can shoot, but doesn't enjoy it as a hobby like I do) Aside from that, its easy to operate, very reliable, there's a huge variety of ammunition available, and the "crap your pants" factor when you're on the wrong side is definitely there. I've also found that if the slides on automatics are pushed back a bit, the gun doesn't always "go off". I like the idea that if the spit really hits the fan, my wife can jam the revolver into the assailants gut and "let a few fly". (of course I hope that never happens) Furthermore, I feel more comfortable keeping 5 or 6 in a revolver than I do keeping 6 or7 in my 1911 (back to the magazine spring issue) I also remember Smith offering a "chiefs special" that I was also thinking of looking into. It was a 5-shot small framed .38. I liked the idea of it, but have never see one in person. anyhoo, good luck and be safe!

Its called a model 36, (Steel frame) model 37 (Alloy frame) model 38 (shrouded hammer). I have a model 37 built in 1982. Its the nicest trigger I own. I love shooting it. 1 7/8 barrel and I can keep it in a fist size group at 25 yards, and I am a terrible shot. I think the new ones are called a 637, or a 638. I'm not so big on the newer smiths with the whole transfer bar business. Mine, in somewhat rough but carryable condition was $275. Mine is only rated .38, the newer is rated +p, and some are .357. Most people say +p is fine in the older guns, and I have shot +p in mine. Some of the old timers say that modern +p is only about as powerful as old timey .38. Who knows. I love mine.

Joey

K or L frame S&W in 38 Special/357 Mag with a 4" bbl. Fixed sights, preferably.

Done.

Hungary Bill wrote: I've also found that if the slides on automatics are pushed back a bit, the gun doesn't always "go off". I like the idea that if the spit really hits the fan, my wife can jam the revolver into the assailants gut and "let a few fly". (of course I hope that never happens) Furthermore, I feel more comfortable keeping 5 or 6 in a revolver than I do keeping 6 or7 in my 1911 (back to the magazine spring issue)

Thats a trigger or hammer problem. Likely a lose pin. Sometimes a pin in the side slides out a little with those .45s. Its a good idea to keep the revolver around though.

N Sperlo wrote:

Hungary Bill wrote: I've also found that if the slides on automatics are pushed back a bit, the gun doesn't always "go off". I like the idea that if the spit really hits the fan, my wife can jam the revolver into the assailants gut and "let a few fly". (of course I hope that never happens) Furthermore, I feel more comfortable keeping 5 or 6 in a revolver than I do keeping 6 or7 in my 1911 (back to the magazine spring issue)

Thats a trigger or hammer problem. Likely a lose pin. Sometimes a pin in the side slides out a little with those .45s. Its a good idea to keep the revolver around though.

Unless, of course, the bad guy grabs the revolver blocking the hammer, or freezing the wheel so it won't turn.

Osterkraut wrote:

N Sperlo wrote:

Hungary Bill wrote: I've also found that if the slides on automatics are pushed back a bit, the gun doesn't always "go off". I like the idea that if the spit really hits the fan, my wife can jam the revolver into the assailants gut and "let a few fly". (of course I hope that never happens) Furthermore, I feel more comfortable keeping 5 or 6 in a revolver than I do keeping 6 or7 in my 1911 (back to the magazine spring issue)

Thats a trigger or hammer problem. Likely a lose pin. Sometimes a pin in the side slides out a little with those .45s. Its a good idea to keep the revolver around though.

Unless, of course, the bad guy grabs the revolver blocking the hammer, or freezing the wheel so it won't turn.

Shouldn't have let him/her that close.

93EXCivic wrote: If she decided on a shotgun, are Mossbergs any good?

Yes, I love the 500. My only concern is the pump release button is in a bad place for use with most pistol grips/AR stocks, if you where thinking about using those. Other model Mossy's have it in a different location.

Slight tangent, since shotguns have come up as home defense weapons, and I'll likely be shopping for one after the holidays: 20 ga with full power loads, or 12 ga with low recoil rounds for a gun to possibly used by my delicate flower of a girlfriend? Discuss.

(Drewsifer's link from above makes a compelling argument for a short stock, gas operated semi-auto 20 ga as a versatile grab-n-shoot scattergun.)