First off, I really like my job right now. I get to play with cars, develop and work with new products, use my track and instructing experience, and I actually like my boss. I am not looking to change jobs. Right now. I still have a ton to learn here.
However, in the ever cycling automotive industry, there are potential changes ahead. I am not sure if they are good or bad yet but let's just say our company is not a leader in my particular field and trying to play catch up. Other divisions have been sold and some new ones bought. That said, I want to proactively prepare for the worst when the next round of changes in our company's restructuring comes in a few months. If that happens, I'd want out of the automotive industry if possible and into another industry where my skills will still be relevant and I'd still enjoy what I do. Problem is I can't see that industry yet. My previous plans of opening an indoor go kart track have taken a back seat since getting married and having a kid and needing a steady income, and also a market that has become saturated in the area.
I'm sure there are others in the GRM universe that have been in similar situations and am wondering what choices you have made.
Thanks for listening!
Aerospace. Were in a 10-20 year upswing. Send me PM. Can't hire enough people in Minnesota right now.
Aerospace and Defense.......ugh.......not sure a company could ever offer me enough money to do that again.
Working with the DOD is nearly impossible.
Working in a Union shop was the most unpleasant 6 months of my life. Like, I wanted to get up and drink in the morning before going in.
I worked for years to get out of manufacturing and into technology. But, learning to code or something similar isn't exactly something you do in a couple of months.
SVreX
MegaDork
12/18/18 7:45 a.m.
Commercial Construction supervision will continue to have major shortages for the next 20+ years.
It is morphing into a job of training, regulation, and documentation instead of one that breaks your back. The average age of superintendents is now over 55 and most of them can’t keep up, or use an iPad.
Regional travel is a requirement, and living in a hotel is not always fun. But if you are a reasonably good communicator with an eye for detail, an ability to understand regulations, and a willingness to put up with and lead stubborn people, the salaries are now at 6 figures and can only go up.
I get 40-50 hits a month on my LinkedIn page. Somebody’s looking for what I have.
z31maniac said:
But, learning to code or something similar isn't exactly something you do in a couple of months.
Actually it is. Join a quick 6 month camp and you can be business anaylst quickly.
I dont work work in a union shop and do primarily commercial aviation. Airbus has a 10+ year firm order backlog on a320’s now. It’s a good time to be in aerospace. Asia and africa are still underserved by air travel.
In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :
totally agree. You can absolutely learn to code in 6 months.
The one thing that has always stayed the same is people drink.
Alcohol is probably the longest and most stable legal profession out there.
BTW, the automotive market is may be facing a change, but people still need personal transportation one way or another. There's never been a time where the need for one person to travel in their own direction didn't exist. So personal vehicles will still be a thing for many, many, many years to come.
To PMRacing: If you want to stay automotive and your skill set is adaptable to EVs and you’re OK with a little risk, jump to an EV manufacturer now.
Robbie said:
In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :
totally agree. You can absolutely learn to code in 6 months.
If one learned to code - what is a bottom end of salary they can expect to make ?
Additionally with coding camps starting everywhere - how can one tell if it’s a “good one” ? Thank you
Fueled by Caffeine said:
z31maniac said:
But, learning to code or something similar isn't exactly something you do in a couple of months.
Actually it is. Join a quick 6 month camp and you can be business anaylst quickly.
I dont work work in a union shop and do primarily commercial aviation. Airbus has a 10+ year firm order backlog on a320’s now. It’s a good time to be in aerospace. Asia and africa are still underserved by air travel.
I looked at this a few years ago and realized I didn't have the money. Flat Iron for instance is between $15-20k for the course, and it's full-time for 4 months so you aren't working while you're doing it.
So you have to pay for the course, and your living expenses for 4 months, while having no income.
mr2s2000elise said:
Robbie said:
In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :
totally agree. You can absolutely learn to code in 6 months.
If one learned to code - what is a bottom end of salary they can expect to make ?
Additionally with coding camps starting everywhere - how can one tell if it’s a “good one” ? Thank you
Depends on the area of the country, what you specialize in, etc. Check Glassdoor, LinkedIn, etc, to get a feel for what pay is being offered for different skill sets in different parts of the country.
z31maniac said:
I looked at this a few years ago and realized I didn't have the money. Flat Iron for instance is between $15-20k for the course, and it's full-time for 4 months so you aren't working while you're doing it.
So you have to pay for the course, and your living expenses for 4 months, while having no income.
Those prices are insane. You can even learn to "code" (meaning the basics of programming in general) on your own at your own pace. I did when I was a kid. But if you want to take a course, there are plenty out there for 3~low 4 digits, both IRL and online.
mr2s2000elise said:
Robbie said:
In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :
totally agree. You can absolutely learn to code in 6 months.
If one learned to code - what is a bottom end of salary they can expect to make ?
Additionally with coding camps starting everywhere - how can one tell if it’s a “good one” ? Thank you
Bottom end, minimum wage or less. Top end, quarter-mil a year (or even into the 8-digits for ML/LNN superstars). But seriously, it's very region-dependent. For someone with just basic programming skills, it might be difficult to make the course pay for itself unless you work somewhere that wants you to start doing something that involves programming.
For software development jobs where programming is the meat and potatoes of the work, people who weren't programming since at least college will almost certainly get circle-filed.
GameboyRMH said:
Bottom end, minimum wage or less. Top end, quarter-mil a year (or even into the 8-digits for ML/LNN superstars). But seriously, it's very region-dependent. For someone with just basic programming skills, it might be difficult to make the course pay for itself unless you work somewhere that wants you to start doing something that involves programming.
For software development jobs where programming is the meat and potatoes of the work, people who weren't programming since at least college will almost certainly get circle-filed.
IN that case, doesn't seem worth it to learn, later in life.
GameboyRMH said:
z31maniac said:
I looked at this a few years ago and realized I didn't have the money. Flat Iron for instance is between $15-20k for the course, and it's full-time for 4 months so you aren't working while you're doing it.
So you have to pay for the course, and your living expenses for 4 months, while having no income.
Those prices are insane. You can even learn to "code" (meaning the basics of programming in general) on your own at your own pace. I did when I was a kid. But if you want to take a course, there are plenty out there for 3~low 4 digits, both IRL and online.
The benefit is 99% placement rate with top companies after 4 months of training instead of spending 4+ years in college without necessarily making the same connections and possibly being $100k or more in debt.
^Man I hate how "connections" are worth so much more than skills.
Sounds more like a job placement agency with a coding course as an additional bonus.
z31maniac said:
But, learning to code or something similar isn't exactly something you do in a couple of months.
Not that you’re wrong, but I landed my current gig(that I’ve been at over 6-years) by downloading a free copy of SQL Server & playing around at home with it for a couple weeks’ worth of evenings, and passing a pre-employment test with the help of several GRMers. Most everything since then I’ve learned via Google. So it is possible, though definitely not the norm.
Edit: in reply to salary questions above, iirc I started around $36k, which was a couple grand less than I’d previously been earning(in a shrinking field). Though I’m now well beyond that(and what I’d previously earned).
whoever PM'd me has been replied to...
another place to look is some of the larger 3d printing houses..
https://www.stratasys.com/ <-- I know some people there and its a fantastic place... very start up y.. but also with solid growth coming.
SVreX
MegaDork
12/18/18 10:54 a.m.
GameboyRMH said:
^Man I hate how "connections" are worth so much more than skills.
Sounds more like a job placement agency with a coding course as an additional bonus.
This is kinda odd.
That's the way it works. Most of us care a little bit about job placement. Skills are supremely hard to measure in a reasonably objective manner, and don't matter that much. Most positions with most companies are about character, aptitude,personality, and "fit". That's what connections try to offer. Skills can be taught.
Pete Gossett said:
z31maniac said:
But, learning to code or something similar isn't exactly something you do in a couple of months.
Not that you’re wrong, but I landed my current gig(that I’ve been at over 6-years) by downloading a free copy of SQL Server & playing around at home with it for a couple weeks’ worth of evenings, and passing a pre-employment test with the help of several GRMers. Most everything since then I’ve learned via Google. So it is possible, though definitely not the norm.
Edit: in reply to salary questions above, iirc I started around $36k, which was a couple grand less than I’d previously been earning(in a shrinking field). Though I’m now well beyond that(and what I’d previously earned).
Yeah, there are lots of free options to learn how to code and use different programming languages. I know the devs that are here for the product we work on, all have Software Engineering degrees and had years of experience before they were hired here.
But we aren't exactly a startup anymore either.
Entry level positions in software development aren't that easy to get unfortunately. This has been an issue for quite a while, everybody wants people with 3-5 years experience but nobody wants to hire (cheaper) employees who are new to the field and will rather poach allegedly more experienced people from other companies.
The other thing to keep in mind is that unless you have really specialist skills, software development is prone to competition from countries with a cheaper workforce. Much harder to outsource your plumbing to Indonesia than your software development.
SVreX said:
This is kinda odd.
That's the way it works. Most of us care a little bit about job placement. Skills are supremely hard to measure in a reasonably objective manner, and don't matter that much. Most positions with most companies are about character, aptitude,personality, and "fit". That's what connections try to offer. Skills can be taught.
I suppose the reason is that I'd rather earn a job on merit than schmooze my way into it by knowing the right people, and on the flipside of that I wouldn't like to be in a job where my personal off-hours relationship with anyone could affect my career prospects. I'd think job history would be a good measurement of skill, character, and aptitude at least. Connections are hardly any guarantee of any of those traits. Hiring on skill would produce a more meritocratic system while hiring on connections produces a more aristocratic system, and I suppose having suffered under one of the world's most aristocratic job markets throughout my entire "career" so far makes me dislike the concept of "connections" even more, to me it feels like a well-understood but largely unscrutinized euphemism for words like nepotism, favoritism, and corruption.
"Skills can be taught" also doesn't apply to jobs that require a tertiary education, that's not something employers will pay or wait for.
