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Jay
Jay HalfDork
6/17/08 3:15 p.m.
Salanis wrote: ... 4. Its existence has given us bikinis and convertibles.

Okay, I worship the sun too now. All glory to the Great Shiney One.

J

confuZion3
confuZion3 Reader
6/17/08 3:16 p.m.

Just throwing this out there: as a dimension, a field of energy, a force in our universe, or otherwise; I don't believe that time exists.

Its existence is required for our current mathematical calculations of movement (acceleration, velocity, speed, etc.). However, so are numbers. Does "3" exist? Not in the same way we exist. It is a concept - there can be 3 dogs, or 3 computers, or 3 dead babies - but what is the property of 3? How about "inch". What is an inch? 2.54 centimeters? OK. But show me what an inch IS (not the distance it measures, but show me a thing that IS an inch). The same with 3. You can show me 3, you can type THREE, and you can hold three fingers up. But can you see 3, or are you seeing finger, finger, finger? Is 3, or any number, or any MEASUREMENT required for us to exist? I argue that it is not.

The same goes for time. Is it REQUIRED for motion, or does it just fit our mathematical equations well? If you take time out of the picture, how would you describe motion? There may not be a way to do so with human speech, but it doesn't mean time is required for motion. We can talk about a past, present, and future; but these are just terms and tenses used to describe events. We can't travel to the past (if we could, wouldn't a future version of us travel back to its past -- our present?).

Salanis: your take on the sun worship thing made me laugh out loud.

Salanis
Salanis HalfDork
6/17/08 3:30 p.m.

Time exists, just as space does. We understand space and time in units of measurement, which are completely abstract. But the actual distance exists. The measurements are just models that we handily agree on to communicate in common terms.

Look at this---> Word

You read "Word". All it is, is an existence of pixels on your screen arranged in a particular pattern. You translate that pattern and give it meaning in your mind. The concept is a real one to you though. Mathematics and measurements are just languages, not the things themselves. It is much like religion isn't divinity. The Buddha explained this by comparing his teachings to a finger pointing at the Sun (okay, it was the moon, but the moon never gave us bikinis) and cautioned that we not get so hung up on the finger pointing the way to miss the Sun itself.

No, you can't go back in time. Traveling backwards in time isn't the same as retracing your steps though. Traveling back in time would be like un-traveling the distance you have traveled. You can't un-travel. It's possible and entirely likely that time isn't linear or directional (relativity would lead us to presume that it is curved), but it has to constantly flow and change and can't "un-change". It can change back to a similar state as earlier, but can't undo it's changes.

Salanis
Salanis HalfDork
6/17/08 3:40 p.m.

Okay, heavy philosophy here:

Each dimension is the nature of change of the previous dimension. It is the curvature of that previous dimension. Let's examine an object shifting across dimensions.

1st Dimension: A line segment. OOoooooooo...

2nd Dimension: Bend that line across its axis. You now have a curved line. It can have multiple curves too. If might connect back in on itself as a circle. If a 1 dimensional being were to view this, they would watch it unfold as line segments of varying lengths.

3rd Dimension (normal space; what we normally percieve): Bend that curved line or circle on its axis, and you end up with a three dimensional figure. If viewed by a 2-d being, it would appear as a curved line that wobbled and bent.

4th Dimension (space-time): Now we bend that 3-d on it's axis? But how? Well, we don't normally perceive the axis of the 3rd dimension. What we view are 3-d figures continuing to morph. If one were to perceive this dimension more fully, they would "see the future".

5th Dimension (possibility): Can time be bent on its axis? Sure, why not. The nature of change of what happens in space-time is the possibility of what could happen as space-time unfolds and morphs. This is also why one can't see "the" future. There is more than one, and we have the ability for free will.

6th Dimension (probability): Not all possibilities are equal. They shift as existence progresses. As events unfold, possibilities become curved such that some are more probably than others.

7th Dimension (umm???): Change of probability? This is the nature of what makes probability unfold. This is where my meager brain brakes down in terms of figuring out more complex dimensions. I might be able to understand this in time, but suspect that language hasn't progressed that far yet.

From there on down, it's all elephants...

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess SuperDork
6/17/08 3:40 p.m.

If you do the Forier Transform into the frequency domain, then there is no time dimension at all.

confuZion3
confuZion3 Reader
6/17/08 3:46 p.m.
Salanis wrote: Time exists, just as space does.

And space is . . . ?

Nothing at all.

Salanis
Salanis HalfDork
6/17/08 4:11 p.m.

"Space" is our term for the 3rd dimension.

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