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thatsnowinnebago
thatsnowinnebago GRM+ Memberand UberDork
6/6/23 1:28 p.m.
DarkMonohue said:
thatsnowinnebago said:

Is that vinegar/salt/soap mix effective on Himalayan blackberries? The ally behind our house is absolutely choked with them and it would be nice to not have to trim them back a few times a year. 

Same question here. Those things are the devil. We're going to cut out everything we can with a hedge trimmer and then spray this stuff as new growth pops up throughout the summer. It's worth a try.

The vinegar+dawn mix definitely did some damage to the blackberries I sprayed it on. Enough that I'll be applying it behind my fence to manage their growth a bit. 

Seems like the "direct sun" part of the directions is important. The weeds in my driveway died in a couple hours, but the grasses growing in the shadow of my house are limping along. 

pheller
pheller UltimaDork
6/6/23 2:31 p.m.

What's the long-tem impact of the vinegar+dawn+salt mix? 

Like, how long will that kill anything in that area? Months? Years? Decades? 

thatsnowinnebago
thatsnowinnebago GRM+ Memberand UberDork
6/26/23 4:49 p.m.
thatsnowinnebago said:
DarkMonohue said:
thatsnowinnebago said:

Is that vinegar/salt/soap mix effective on Himalayan blackberries? The ally behind our house is absolutely choked with them and it would be nice to not have to trim them back a few times a year. 

Same question here. Those things are the devil. We're going to cut out everything we can with a hedge trimmer and then spray this stuff as new growth pops up throughout the summer. It's worth a try.

The vinegar+dawn mix definitely did some damage to the blackberries I sprayed it on. Enough that I'll be applying it behind my fence to manage their growth a bit. 

Seems like the "direct sun" part of the directions is important. The weeds in my driveway died in a couple hours, but the grasses growing in the shadow of my house are limping along. 

Here's a before and after to follow up with some photos of the impact of 30% vinegar+dish soap+salt on blackberries. This is the mess behind my fence. Its supposed to be an alleyway for scale.

Before: 

Two days later:

The spray did some serious damage and knocked the growth back pretty well. I know the only way to truly get rid of blackberries is to dig them out and I'm not about to do that. So the spray seems like a good way to control the growth until one of us dies. 

​​

 

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
3/12/24 7:48 a.m.

Bumping because i will finally be mixing and spraying the vinegar mix after work.

Whats the golden ratio for this? My backpack sprayer holds 4 gallons.

Noddaz
Noddaz GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
3/12/24 8:16 a.m.

Right here near the bottom.

Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/12/24 8:18 a.m.

Man, I wish I had seen this previously. 

Vinegar is... eh.  It kills the leaves, it does virtually nothing to the root system.  Good if you're at the seedling stage of plant development.  Anything perennial or anything in the grass family is gonna come back.  Everything I've read indicates that even with concentrated vinegar you'll end up reapplying every two weeks or so throughout the growing season.

I'm gonna point Dad to this thread as he has done a lot of work to find what weed killers work best in various environments of his acreage.

lotusseven7 (Forum Supporter)
lotusseven7 (Forum Supporter) Dork
3/12/24 8:45 a.m.

Tractor Supply stuff works very, very well. I've used the 41% for years, but recently there is a higher concentration +50%. Diluted in a backpack sprayer is how I apply it around our property, on gravel to kill off grass/weekd, along the driveway, in mulch beds. You need to apply it to the green leaves which gets it to the root. It was explained to me this way which seems to have worked. Apply iy directly to the greenery several hours after a rain and only if there is 2-3 days of dry weather to follow. This way the plant absorbs it and then goes dormant for the few dry days. If this is the last liquid it takes in prior to going dormant, it goes to and kills the plant at the root. Is it true that it happens that way? Don't know, but it has worked well for me. My brother who is all for quick and easy and rarely listens to his big brother, went and bought the stuff, sprayed it randomly on the ground in beds and gravel during a dry spell and it barely did anything. He told me it didn't work and upon asking what he did step by step and how he applied it, he admitted to not listening to what I said and did it his way. The following week after a soaking rain, he applied it in the way I described me VOILA, it went from green to yellow to brown to dead! Imagine that! Al in all about 10 days to totally dead.

 

fasted58
fasted58 MegaDork
3/12/24 9:16 a.m.

RM 18

Asas_Dad
Asas_Dad New Reader
3/12/24 9:35 p.m.

In reply to Mr_Asa :

Son Asa just told me about this, so I'm coming late to it.  This is a topic that is near, and not so dear to my heart, as I battle invasive plants on my property continuously.  Along the way, I have learned some about herbicides; I am NOT an herbicide expert, nor am I an organic chemist (I just barely squeaked by Organic I, flunked Organic II, but hey - I was in my middle 40s when I went back to college, so a little credit, please.) but some of organic chemistry lingers in my brain. 

It'll be too long to write online, so I'll put it into a word document and paste it here later.

Asas_Dad
Asas_Dad New Reader
3/12/24 11:26 p.m.

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :

My son-in-law bought a lot that was very grown up, a few trees.  He had someone come in, hog it down to the ground.  I asked him what his guy used, if he went back with herbicide afterward to keep new growth down.  His reply was:  It was a Bobcat skid steer with a forestry mulching head.  I hired a lawn service to maintain it a couple times a month. 

Basically, I don't think you can win against Mother Nature.   All you can do is keep it knocked back, at the expense of your time & labor.  Or $.

P3PPY
P3PPY GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
3/13/24 9:48 a.m.

In reply to Mr_Asa :

Right. My understanding was that vinegar is for top-kill only. That happens to work over time for poison ivy since it doesn't tolerate being repeatedly cut back, but that's just giving false hope for everything else. I have used pramitol and tordon but I see that they're ineffective in your case. So I'm waiting for what you discover helps.

Or I'm waiting for two years from now when a canoe revives this thread and we ask what you ended up using. 

Asas_Dad
Asas_Dad New Reader
3/15/24 2:16 a.m.

 

 

The first problem we have is one of naming. Herbicides, and other commercially-marketed chemical formulations have three names; first is the IUPAC (International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry) name; the name actually tells you the structure of the molecule and is the internationally agreed-upon chemical name. For example, 2,4-Dichlorophenoxyacetic acid is commonly called 2,4-D for short. The IUPAC tells you that there are two (Dichloro) chlorine atoms substituted on its phenol ring at the 2 and 4 positions, and that it has an acetic acid on the 1 position. 2,4-D is it’s Trade name. Trade names are agreed-upon shorter names by the industry – because who wants to say “2,4-Dichlorophenoxyacetic acid” every time? Then there is its Brand name, assigned by the company that sells it. In this case. 2,4-D is sold as Killex, Trimec, End Run, more than I can name. It’s the least useful name, because each different company can assign its own brand name, and can even change it – but it’s still 2,4-D. Brand names are a marketing thing.

Crossbow is a mixture of 2,4-D and Triclopyr (3,5,6-trichloro-2-pyridinyloxyacetic acid). If I want to know what I’m buying, I read the ingredients.

 

Then there is a similar problem with names of the plants you are trying to kill. They have Latin names that tell you the genus and species of that genus, and for each, they will have a common name. Common names can vary locally for each region, state or country. “Ironwood” is a common name worldwide, and very few of them are related to each other. It’s just whatever wood that grows nearby the user, and denotes the hardest wood in that area. “Stiltgrass” is also a common name; others for it are Japanese stiltgrass, Nepalese browntop, several others. Here is the USDA catalog of invasive plants: https://www.invasivespeciesinfo.gov/terrestrial/plants/japanese-stiltgrass Its Latin name is Microstegium vimineum. I’m not going to suggest that we all look up the Latin names, but it would prevent confusion.

 

As for what kills your particular problem, you may have consult with your State or County biologists. I know that (trade name) glyphosate (brand name Roundup) will kill most North American plants, but some of the Asian species just laugh at it, don’t even turn yellow. I have had some limited success using dilute 2,4-D to kill weeds in my centipede lawn, but it’s not recommended for use as a selective herbicide – too strong and you kill the grass.

 

Then there is method of action; glyphosate is a foliar treatment – diluted in water, you spray the leaves. But triclopyr works best in kerosene, diesel, even soy oil, that you dribble down the lower 12” – 18” of the trunk, all the way around it. They call that basal bark treatment. To further confuse things, the oil/petroleum diluent for triclopyr tells me that the cambium layer (between the bark and wood) is subject to non-polar solvents, as opposed to polar, like water or alcohol. Or maybe the triclopyr is, I still haven’t figured that out.

 

I’m in N. Florida; plenty of sunshine and rain. Everything from anywhere in the world wants to grow here, and will. I see something new every year, some weed, bush or tree that is not native, stuff I have no name for. I’m fighting a losing battle; I can kill the ones I find on my property, but I can’t kill all of them in the state. The State has an Invasive Plants bureau, but it doesn’t have the personnel or funding to go out and eradicate them. I kill what I can, even on public property, but herbicides are expensive, and the state won’t supply me with them, even if I provide the labor.

 

Finally, I have a special request: if you’re going after weeds in your lawn, please, PLEASE do not use the selective herbicide Atrazine on lands that drain into a body of water. It works quite well in controlling unwanted grasses, like at a sod farm. But my neighbor has a 20-acre hayfield she’d let go; the guy she hired to revive it six years ago used atrazine; it disrupts the ability of amphibians to reproduce. Her field drains to the stream that feeds my swamp; I haven’t seen a Cooter or a bullfrog in my swamp since then.

 

 

 

 

 

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