Theater needs CCTV. We have tried multiple things that just don't work, and here's why. There can't be any latency. I have tried hooking up an old-school analog Swann security bullet camera, but once it gets to the flat-screen TV's composite video input, digital magic decoding things happen and it's about 1/4 of a second behind real-time. That can't happen when you have a chorus back stage trying to follow a conductor.
I have borrowed a CCTV setup from another theater before. It uses a bullet camera and an old black-and-white CRT monitor. The problem is, the monitor is a 9" display. It had next to zero lag, but also next to zero visibility. I need to have a monitor hanging from a mezzanine 40' away from the actors that shows them movement from a conductor. 32" flat screen monitor works great for that... but lag happens. I can't really hang a 32" CRT.
How can I get real-time video without the lag?
I'd guess that the easiest & cheapest thing you can do is not to do any digital conversion at all. That will result in a bit less quality, but near instantaneous communication.
Any camera that can output RCA/composite should suffice, and any cheap TV you can pick up can have that as input. If you have a thrift store around that would have an old camcorder, that would be sufficient..
If you can't find one of those, car backup cameras are often RCA/composite output, perhaps you can snag one of those?
----- EDIT ----
Sorry, I missed that you seemed to be having trouble on the composite input side.. Sounds like you have the camera side.
See if you can turn on digital up-converting on your TV and any additional editing that's doing.. Often times, there's a "video games" mode that disables most of the digital processing in effort to get higher framerate/less processing delay. See if your TV has that? What brand TV is it?
Barring that maybe an old analog DLP projector? Gotta be some of those kicking around for pennies? Can you fly an old DLP TV? Those are bulky but light, have decent screen sizes and brightness, and fall into that $Free.99 category I know you would be interested in.
I have an older projector that might fit the bill if you decide to go that route.
Dumber idea - What's the latency of Facetime/Zoom/GotoMeeting/Hangouts/Meet/etc? Can you just pump that from a laptop through HDMI to the TV and have a "meeting" with a phone in the other room?
WonkoTheSane (Forum Supporter) said:
Dumber idea - What's the latency of Facetime/Zoom/GotoMeeting/Hangouts/Meet/etc? Can you just pump that from a laptop through HDMI to the TV and have a "meeting" with a phone in the other room?
Using this, the feed goes from the cameras to the access point to the interwebz to the access point again and to the recieving device. No bueno. I think your first suggestion is going to be one of the best options. Stay with minimal wiring and networking.
See if you can turn on digital up-converting on your TV and any additional editing that's doing.. Often times, there's a "video games" mode that disables most of the digital processing in effort to get higher framerate/less processing delay. See if your TV has that? What brand TV is it?
I have a TCL and a Sanyo at my disposal. Both were bought at Target on some black friday special. Both 32"
WonkoTheSane (Forum Supporter) said:
Dumber idea - What's the latency of Facetime/Zoom/GotoMeeting/Hangouts/Meet/etc? Can you just pump that from a laptop through HDMI to the TV and have a "meeting" with a phone in the other room?
Those can be on the order of 1-2 seconds depending on network reliability.
93gsxturbo said:
Barring that maybe an old analog DLP projector? Gotta be some of those kicking around for pennies? Can you fly an old DLP TV? Those are bulky but light, have decent screen sizes and brightness, and fall into that $Free.99 category I know you would be interested in.
DLP TV would be no bueno. These need to be set up via ladder and by one person in varying configurations depending on the set design, if it's at the black box or the proscenium, etc. It's usually me climbing up some scaffolding and lifting the TV with a rope.
I do have several projectors including some older ones. They don't do the trick either. They have enough video lag that it's difficult watching something with audio. I take that back... I don't think it's lag, I think that the refresh rate of the old-tech LCD makes it "smeary" and gives the appearance of lag. Either way, difficult for musicians and crew to follow specific downbeats. That's not to say none of them would work, but of the 6 that are owned by the theater of 3 different brands/eras/technologies, none of them are quite up to the task.
I will be getting a freebie soon. It's a super-short-throw projector from the TV station next door. It was what they used after green screens and before digital. It will throw a 100" screen in just 3 feet. Once I get ahold of that, maybe it won't have the lag.
N Sperlo said:
WonkoTheSane (Forum Supporter) said:
Dumber idea - What's the latency of Facetime/Zoom/GotoMeeting/Hangouts/Meet/etc? Can you just pump that from a laptop through HDMI to the TV and have a "meeting" with a phone in the other room?
Using this, the feed goes from the cameras to the access point to the interwebz to the access point again and to the recieving device. No bueno. I think your first suggestion is going to be one of the best options. Stay with minimal wiring and networking.
Which brings up another shortcoming... analog signals don't like long distances and are very susceptible to interference. When you have 500 three-phase dimmers going to the same number of 575-1000w incandescent lights all playing with 60hz juice, it shortens that distance even more.
Normally, I wouldn't care about a fuzzy picture, but modern TVs all do that blue screen thing when the signal gets weak. I had to swap out the TCL for the Sanyo for the last show because it had better gain, or the threshold for blue-screening was different.
Here's a guide on how to turn on Game mode on a Sanyo:
https://www.techwalla.com/articles/how-to-change-a-sanyo-tv-to-game-mode
Here's TCL:
https://support.tclusa.com/televisions-setup-configurations/189393-how-to-adjust-your-picture-size
I don't have access to either TV, so I dunno if they're accurate.. but I've fought similar problems trying to sync video & sound from a PC and solved it that way.
On the analog noise front, one trick we used to use for sound systems was to use Coax cable, just solder your own ends onto the cable for the last few feet on both sides. Another option that's supposed to work well, but suffer a bit more interference is to use twisted pair, like some Cat5e cable. Composite/RCA is just two wires, so any sort of twisted pair or shielded cable will work a lot better than just getting a long "regular" cable. You can get shielded RCA cables but I'd order from somewhere reputable like B&H, otherwise you're just going to get the cheapest chinesium cable with a sticker on it.
Great links, thank you. I'm also tempted to try doing it as a sorta balanced signal via XLR. One conductor soldered to the jacket and #2, and the center pin goes to #1. I already have an audio snake, might as well give it a shot.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:
Great links, thank you. I'm also tempted to try doing it as a sorta balanced signal via XLR. One conductor soldered to the jacket and #2, and the center pin goes to #1. I already have an audio snake, might as well give it a shot.
Oh yeah, that makes sense that you'd have a bunch of XLR laying around :)
