Teach me: piloting stuff

I know we have a few pilots here, so I'd like to pick some brains.  The impending ditching of my job (resigning in July) and the recent loss of Baltimore girl (the girlfriend) has me in self-improvement/bucket list mode.  Some of the bucket list includes mundane things like, new countertops for the kitchen or clean the garage.  Other things include finishing things I started but never completed, like finish my Master's degree and finish my Pilot's license.

In High School, I had a well-to-do friend whose father was a big-name reconstructive surgeon.  He was considering leasing a copter and he (knowing my desire to be a pilot) offered to put me through the training and be his pilot.  After 6 months of looking into it, he couldn't reconcile the cost/benefit and the idea was scrapped.

Then in college I decided to get my Private Pilot license.  I remember it was 1996 because my FAR-AIM manual is 95-96.  I had $X set aside, I signed up at the local airport, had a great instructor.  Trained on a Piper Archer II.  I rocked at most of it except landing, so I never soloed before running out of money.  Landing is kinda important, I'm told.  I wanted to start a conversation about whether or not I should continue with fixed wing, switch to whirly-bird, and what the benefits to each might be.

I forget how much class time I had, but I think I recall having 10 hours in-flight.  Most people solo by then, but it also took me 8 years to get an undergrad degree and I've been slowly working on my Master's for 5 years now.

I'm just itching to finish it, but do I ditch the fixed wing and go ghetto-bird, or build on the fixed wing stuff I started mmhphmh years ago?

Look up sport pilot. Much less time. Its a boon to those on the edge medically, because you only need a valid driver's license. You can only fly Piper Cub sized airplanes, which isn't as bad as it sounds because, Piper Cub.

https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/sport_pilot/

Forget the hours you have accumulated. Your going to have to re-learn all of it. Start drooling at all the adds on Barnstormers.com.

Light Sport is limited to two seats, max weight of 1320 lbs., I don't remember how many horses, but max speed is 120 knots.  Cannot be used for hire, can only fly VFR.  No medical certificate is required, BUT older folks that fly and cannot pass the medical exam go out and buy light sports.  Imagine buying a Chevette and then throwing on air, cruise, leather and all the things you like.  Some of these ships are quite expensive.

A fellow glider pilot's wife is a helicopter instructor, she gets $500/hour.  If this is the road I insisted on going down and I was younger, I would look at the government plan.  I am a glider pilot who bought a motor glider.  It qualifies as light sport, but when the engine pukes it has a 27:1 glide ratio and burns 2.5gph.  It's enough for me. 

Take a few flights in a sailplane, your landings will definitely improve as you get no go arounds or touch & goes.

Mid-Atlantic Soaring

Dan

Having considered the same when I was younger, the military to civilian ratio of helicopter pilots was rather high. Beyond that, good luck. It was always something I wanted to do, but never had the money for. 

If the goal is to get paid for this, I see no way that a civilian trying to get a foot in the door could hope to compete with the stream of pre-qualified military flyers who enter the field every day.  (Something like 90 pilots a day leaving armed forces)

NOHOME said:

If the goal is to get paid for this, I see no way that a civilian trying to get a foot in the door could hope to compete with the stream of pre-qualified military flyers who enter the field every day.  (Something like 90 pilots a day leaving armed forces)

Yup. Military pilots have always had an advantage over folks who came up through the civilian channels. You could try to hook up with one of those commuter airlines who have a flight training program and you eventually (hopefully) work your way up to a E36 M3-paying commuter job. It's looking like they have reduced their hiring requirements down to what I was seeing back in the late '80s. You could also spend $$$ getting your CFI and then live on beans and Raman for a few years until you've built up enough time to get on with a fractional carrier and work for E36 M3 wages. I still miss it and would go back in a heartbeat given half a chance. 

Oh, and bone up on the written.

In reply to Curtis :

The Navy taught me how to fly. 1000+ a few hours in my log book  and I haven’t wanted to fly since.  

I can’t  see getting. $200-300 hamburger.   Friends that fly wax on and on about flying yet few do much more than buy those $300 hamburgers. 

Just for reference that’s what it costs to get an hour or so of flying time between the rental cost, fuel, medical etc. I loved flying at first. Learning the real skill stuff like landing on a carrier was a major rush. But just to fly to a different airport to log the required time in is like driving a 4 door automatic granny car around a race track at no more than 30 mph. 

BORING!!!!

frenchyd said:

Learning the real skill stuff like landing on a carrier was a major rush.

OK, two things:  1.  Thank you for your service.   2.  Damn, you are a bada$$.  

I agree with you about the $300 hamburgers.  Its like wanting to take a weekend autocross excursion so you rent a Tercel that has 5000 hours on it for $300.

It seems that PPL-H is for really rich folks.  I see no way of that being an affordable "hobby."  Whirly bird for me would need to be an income and that doesn't sound like where I want to go.

But I could see myself owning a small light-sport.  I think I would want an enclosed fuselage as opposed to an ultralight.

914 Driver... the 1320 lbs and two-seater rule opens up plenty of closed-fuselage options, right?

Some people fly and get it out of their system. For people like me, its a life long obsession. Only you can decide if the effort is worth it. Don't let someone who gave up flying tell you why you shouldn't.

I flew around in a Life Flight helicopter, jeez, 20 years ago now while making a video.  All of the pilots learned to fly in Vietnam and were about as bad-ass as you would imagine.  They had serious flight skills and a lot of hours.  I wonder if that group of pilots is starting to age out of the profession?  Are they being replaced by Desert-Storm vets?  Might be a need in the near future. 

NOHOME said:

If the goal is to get paid for this, I see no way that a civilian trying to get a foot in the door could hope to compete with the stream of pre-qualified military flyers who enter the field every day.  (Something like 90 pilots a day leaving armed forces)

Oh, it's done all the time.  My cousin has made a career of flying and started with piper cubs, now she flies this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Dreamlifter

And did it all civilian side.

KyAllroad (Jeremy) said:

NOHOME said:

If the goal is to get paid for this, I see no way that a civilian trying to get a foot in the door could hope to compete with the stream of pre-qualified military flyers who enter the field every day.  (Something like 90 pilots a day leaving armed forces)

Oh, it's done all the time.  My cousin has made a career of flying and started with piper cubs, now she flies this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Dreamlifter

And did it all civilian side.

Picture of said cousin? 

pinchvalve said:

I flew around in a Life Flight helicopter, jeez, 20 years ago now while making a video.  All of the pilots learned to fly in Vietnam and were about as bad-ass as you would imagine.  They had serious flight skills and a lot of hours.  I wonder if that group of pilots is starting to age out of the profession?  Are they being replaced by Desert-Storm vets?  Might be a need in the near future. 

Yes, the Vietnam guys are retiring or retired now. Youngest would be about 65 now. Yes Desert Storm and Iraq/Afghanistan vets are replacing them. Desert Storm vets are now retired from the military and have been in the job market for a while. I'm one that got lucky and work as a civilian in aviation for the army. I'm a helicopter maintenance guy. Don't fly anymore. Afghan/Iraq vets are approaching retirement and hitting the job market now. Now keep in mind, it only takes 20 years to retire from the military so can still be young enough to have another career. I was 38 when I retired w/20 years. That was over 21 years ago.

Copters are more expensive to fly and maintain so not as common to see someone come up through all-civilian into it. Most were military trained and got out after commitment.

I would get the fixed wing rating before a rotary wing rating due to the cost of helicopter operation. Learning to navigate and use the air traffic control system is essentially the same in a Cessna 150 as it is in a Robinson R-22 at much less $. I would try to find an instructor that owns an airplane that he rents. When I got my private, 1990, I rented a Cessna 150 that was owned by my instructor, the cost was about half of what the FBO charged.  I recall the airplane at $17 per hour wet and $15 per hour for the instructor. Fly at least twice per week, more is better. Otherwise you are repeating manuevers to get your skill back.

As far as making some money at it there are many interesting non airline jobs. I ran an air charter service on Lake Michigan that also did sight seeing with a Cessna 172. When I took the job I was not looking forward to the sight seeing operation. It quickly became  my favorite part of the job. I loved taking people, children especially, that had never been in an airplane and see them enjoy flying. Some other interesting work is powerline and pipeline patrol, wildlife surveys, coastal or riverine patrol, skydiving and instruction. All of those can be done on a part time basis.

If you want to talk on the phone let me know

PS Military service helps but isn't necessary for jet flying. I have about 8,000 hours Multi-engine time, 3,500 Turbine and 1,500 PIC in Lear 20 and 30 series.

NOHOME said:

KyAllroad (Jeremy) said:

NOHOME said:

If the goal is to get paid for this, I see no way that a civilian trying to get a foot in the door could hope to compete with the stream of pre-qualified military flyers who enter the field every day.  (Something like 90 pilots a day leaving armed forces)

Oh, it's done all the time.  My cousin has made a career of flying and started with piper cubs, now she flies this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Dreamlifter

And did it all civilian side.

Picture of said cousin? 

Sorry, she's taken.  Too bad to, she's a catch!

In reply to pilotbraden :

the sight seeing trip surely was exciting when the plane caught on fire outside the hanger.   no damage was done and nobody was hurt.  It was exciting for a minute though. My boys still like to tell the story.

In reply to cdowd :

Do they still tell their enhanced version with the airplane exploding?

I think the reaction they received to their BS on that taught them a lesson in how to tell a storey.

Appleseed said:

Some people fly and get it out of their system. For people like me, its a life long obsession. Only you can decide if the effort is worth it. Don't let someone who gave up flying tell you why you shouldn't.

Flying is extremely expensive. Flying military level aircraft is something only a extremely few civilians ever get to do. Those are extremely wealthy civilians

Since I don’t happen to be a member of that club flying on the Nickels and dimes I could come up to fly with would be about as exciting as a ridding the merry-go-round at the fair. 

If you built your house, you can build a Pitts Special. For cheap, if you are handy. And if a Pitts is boring, I'm pretty sure you're dead. 

In reply to Appleseed : a Pitts Special  is about the one civilian plane that I would enjoy flying.  And yes I could have built one on a reasonable budget.  

Following my first tour in Vietnam I traded planes with a friend I went through training with. He wanted multi engine experience in my S2E and I wanted to fly his Sky Raider A1D.  He graduated near the top of the class. I graduated near the bottom.

 I studied his NATOPs manual and he talked me through the flight before I took the plane for a short flight.  

He warned me to open the throttle slowly on that big 3350 radial engine  and smoothly and to put full rudder in to counter the torque of take off.  

I have no idea why I wasn’t killed on that flight.  I was so far over my head flying on guts and bravado. Reacting to the plane not ahead of it like the Navy trains and trains you for.  

That’s my weakness, without the discipline required to be a skilled pilot I’d go ahead anyway and in a Pitts I’d soon be dead.  More than a few have died  in a Pitts doing things they just weren’t ready to do.  

I knew if i tried hard enough, we'd find some common ground.

In reply to Appleseed :

I just looked. A Pitts special kit price is $46,000 plus a 9 cylinder Russian radial engine ?  

Oops. Never mind