My understanding of EV tire wear is that it is tied to the fact that an electric motor provides maximum torque at zero rpm. The result is that every time a Tesla departs from static it will be with alacrity at the expense of tire wear.
I had no idea that EVs needed new tires every year. I need to look into that. That alone would keep me from wanting to ever buy one.
In reply to NOHOME :
"New every year" is an exaggeration, but we've replaced the tires once on our Model 3 with 55k. I can confirm that my wife does tend to take advantage of the car's zippiness, and the rear tires wear fastest because they're also doing all the regen. Tire rotation is really important on that car. Also, based on the wear patterns I suspect it might have some toe changes under accel (bushing deflection would be my guess) that's not helping with tire wear. I replaced the OE Michelins with Continentals.
The LTX tires on my Dodge 2500 have a similar lifespan, but it's usually pretty heavily loaded.
As an aside, I'm reading Walter Isaacson's biography of Musk. It's a very good read on its own merits and highly recommended to learn about the guy, his personality "quirks" for lack of a better term, and the companies that he's associated with.
I understand there are EV issues that relate to tire wear. I've never heard of an F150 Lighting going through a set in 15K miles.
There is definitely something specifically related to the Cybertruck.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
If you've only replaced the tires on your Model 3 once, you are doing much better than 15K.
If you replaced them recently, then you got 50K out of them. That's good by any standard. If the new set on the car is nearly worn out, then you got more like 27K. That's almost twice 15K.
An online search confirms that 15K is not unusual for the Cybertruck, and some people have gotten dreadfully low at less than 7K.
Something isn't right.
NOHOME said:My understanding of EV tire wear is that it is tied to the fact that an electric motor provides maximum torque at zero rpm. The result is that every time a Tesla departs from static it will be with alacrity at the expense of tire wear.
I had no idea that EVs needed new tires every year. I need to look into that. That alone would keep me from wanting to ever buy one.
There is that whole range of motion thing on the right-most pedal... They're heavy vehicles with a lot of torque. The forces involved in accelerating normally will be par for weight, I expect, and the ability to go harder from standstill certainly provides the opportunity to turn up the tire wear, but I don't think it dictates it.
FWIW, our Leaf didn't cook off its fronts in the two years we had it (and bear in mind that while it was no rocket by the end of an on-ramp, it was *much* quicker off the line and squirting through traffic than the WRX it replaced, and was doing regen on the fronts alone as well).
The Leaf also had really aggravating TC; the kind that just all but turns the motor off for a count if it detects any slippage. Mostly happened in the wet, but I wouldn't be surprised if we saw more aggressive TC as a tire wear management tool. Say, in non-sport-mode it might limit slip percentage and max accel rate at something that's good but not full whack. Somebody at an OEM is looking at a chart showing the curve relating slip to tire wear...
SV reX said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
If you've only replaced the tires on your Model 3 once, you are doing much better than 15K.
If you replaced them recently, then you got 50K out of them. That's good by any standard. If the new set on the car is nearly worn out, then you got more like 27K. That's almost twice 15K.
An online search confirms that 15K is not unusual for the Cybertruck, and some people have gotten dreadfully low at less than 7K.
Something isn't right.
I didn't post the longevity of the original tires because I didn't really remember. But if you really want to know, I went back to my records and it looks like I replaced the originals at 30k. The current ones are holding up better, they're nowhere near done. I am being better at rotation and maybe the Contis are a little more durable. The originals definitely displayed odd tire wear that had me wondering about alignment, but it was confirmed to be okay. Thus my theory about bushing deflection and dynamic toe.
I'm not trying to defend Cybertruck tire life here because I don't really care, I was merely responding to NOHOME's statement about "EVs need new tires every year". That's not universally true.
IIRC maximum traction is obtained at about 10% slip. I don't recall where I came across that.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
If the car changes ride height, not just camber but also toe will change a lot too. Teslas can be a pain to align if they decide to move while you are trying to align it.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
Toe change with ride height is bump steer, which can lead to weird behavior. I'll bet it goes toe in at the rear under power for stability.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
A lot of manufacturers seem to set up toe-out in bump in the front, too.
That and toe-in in bump in the rear cause a nice negative feedback loop when under cornering loads. The fun part is that most people nowadays also go toe-in in droop in the rear, for stability under braking.
In reply to j_tso :
I sure hope nobody thinks muskRAT is still worth that $50 billion payout.
Two things.
Elon Musk admits Tesla’s imminent collapse and seeks urgent exit: “I’ve run out of options” - I don't want to see Tesla go down because of Elon's character flaws, ketamine addiction, and poor decisions.
Tesla chair denies report that EV maker seeks new CEO to replace Musk - "We're totally not looking for a new leader since our last one tanked the stock while throwing nazi salutes. Honest. We aren't."
I think that it's ridiculous that people can't compartimentalise better. Regardless of how one feels about Musk or his political affiliations, Tesla is a huge American success story, employing roughly 60,000 people in the USA, about twice that number worldwide, and many thousands more people have their livelihoods intertwined with the company. Henry Ford and many more titans of industry were no saints either.
Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:I think that it's ridiculous that people can't compartimentalise better. Regardless of how one feels about Musk or his political affiliations, Tesla is a huge American success story, employing roughly 60,000 people in the USA, about twice that number worldwide, and many thousands more people have their livelihoods intertwined with the company. Henry Ford and many more titans of industry were no saints either.
Why should anyone compartmentalize anything going on with Tesla?
A) you disagree with Musk.
B) you agree with Musk.
In either case, Tesla doing well directly affects how much money and influence Musk has as he is the #1 stockholder of the company. Why compartmentalize there?
No one is saying that any of those other titans of industry should be venerated either.
Just... what? I dont get it.
In reply to Mr_Asa :
It's very simple. How would you feel if you lost your job because of something that your boss did outside of running the company? A company that he only owned 12.8 percent of?
Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to Mr_Asa :
It's very simple. How would you feel if you lost your job because of something that your boss did outside of running the company? A company that he only owned 12.8 percent of?
In what other business would that boss still be working for the company?
Henry ford isong dead. Maybe Tesla will shed the negative image in 80 years.
Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:Tesla is a huge American success story, employing roughly 60,000 people in the USA, about twice that number worldwide, and many thousands more people have their livelihoods intertwined with the company.
...So even world wide, still less than the number of just American livelihoods he is now responsible for eliminating.
Tesla was an American success story. Whether it remains so, or becomes just another cautionary tale, is yet to be seen.
Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:I think that it's ridiculous that people can't compartimentalise better. Regardless of how one feels about Musk or his political affiliations, Tesla is a huge American success story, employing roughly 60,000 people in the USA, about twice that number worldwide, and many thousands more people have their livelihoods intertwined with the company. Henry Ford and many more titans of industry were no saints either.
You mean Henry Ford the white supremacist? the Nazi? Aren't we talking about Ellen Must? the Nazi?
Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to Mr_Asa :
It's very simple. How would you feel if you lost your job because of something that your boss did outside of running the company? A company that he only owned 12.8 percent of?
Probably at least better than if I lost my job because of what somebody else's boss (with zero knowledge, qualifications, or stake in what my organization does, nor taking any time to learn as such) did outside of his company.
Whether what a CEO does to cause their employees to lose their jobs was done inside or outside of that company is irrelevant. Either way, they failed in their responsibility as CEO. There have been countless cases of CEO's ruining the livelihoods of their employees through their own poor choices. Why feel worse for those of one company than any other?
In reply to SV reX :
I would guess the short tire life is part too soft a tire like you mentioned, crazy power, and the buyer. The Cybertruck and to a lesser extent the Rivian made their acceleration and performance a selling point. Ford seems to be selling the Lightning as a regular pickup. They probably also do a better job of selecting the appropriate tire, having extensive pickup truck experience.
Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to Mr_Asa :
It's very simple. How would you feel if you lost your job because of something that your boss did outside of running the company? A company that he only owned 12.8 percent of?
Id be pretty berkeleyin pissed at my boss? That doesn't help the compartmentalization argument?
Actions have consequences. If this man pisses off 60,000 people by killing the company... well. Good luck to him?
It’s almost 5:00, so I leave this one up to you: Should we lock this thread until morning so everyone can take a few, or should we just ask that everyone play nicely?
There are three obstacles to a sale:
1-Customer says they do not need your product
2-Customer says they can not afford your product
3-Customer thinks you are un pedazo de mierda mentirosa. ( The more acceptable version is "customer does not trust you")
The first two can be overcome by a good salesperson. The third one is a bitch.
I have no idea where the tesla story will end. People's memories are short. However I am pretty sure that if a Canadian were offered a Chinese EV or a Tesla, today, a lot of Canadian buyers would take the Chinese EV at the same price.
If the tariffs do reach their stated goal of removing all car and car part manufacturing out of Canada and back to the US, there will be less incentive for Canada to keep the 100% tariffs on Chinese vehicles and that also would be bad for Tesla. Mexico is already running on Chinese EVs and Canadians are not hearing a lot of bad things about the China EV models from Mexican consumers.
In reply to Mr_Asa :
Why should anyone compartmentalize anything going on with Ford?
A) you disagree with Henry Ford.
B) you agree with Henry Ford.
Just because he's dead doesn't change his beliefs. Are all Ford owners White Supremacist?
This topic is locked. No further posts are being accepted.
