Thoughts on Digital Publications

PDF. Or some other widely accepted, portable format.

I would re-up my sub in ten minutes if I could just get PDFs dropped in my inbox eight times a year. The current digital editions aren't doing it for a variety of reasons (have to read them in browser, don't work well with non-standard platforms, can't take them with you when going offline, and the reader is just generally clunky and slow.) Right now I don't subscribe because I can't have piles of dead tree versions stacking up, and I don't even have a good address to have them sent to.

You can watermark PDFs/whatever with the subscriber's info if you're worried about people sharing them around, then when a copy hits the web en masse you know who started it. That alone would cut out 98% of the casual piracy. Although honestly, for an ad-supported periodical I don't see much difference between giving away a print copy when I'm done with it and giving away an electronic copy. The print one would go in the recycling otherwise.

Don't try to limit the end users in how they can enjoy your product. The pirates are going to do what they do anyway, and by trying to control how the legitimate paid users can read it you lose subscribers because people just don't want to deal with yet another proprietary system.

I get more magazines in the mail than I can count (well...maybe I'm just too lazy to count them all).

I read approximately none online.

Javelin wrote:

Marjorie Suddard wrote: ...which means adding extra stuff to the digital pub...

This scares me. Unless I can find that extra here on GRM.com easily.

Well we sure don't plan to bone our own site in favor of Pixelmags's or whomever's. F those guys, they're not even family. Whatever we do, you can be sure it will be crazy accessible to GRM.com.

And Jay, we're going to hopefully survive this revolution and go on to continue driving cars, racing, restoring, modifying... all the things one can't do when they're playing a giant online game of "whodunnit."

Which is why we're looking at one of the emerging dominant app formats. Most use XML, some use JPEGs, all help with your merchant transactions and fulfillment--things we already do.

So far we're 2 pages in and I've gotten "Zinio" out of this and BMW CCA's dealio.

Margie

Jay wrote: PDF. Or some other widely accepted, portable format. I would re-up my sub in ten minutes if I could just get PDFs dropped in my inbox eight times a year. The current digital editions aren't doing it for a variety of reasons (have to read them in browser, don't work well with non-standard platforms, can't take them with you when going offline, and the reader is just generally clunky and slow.) Right now I don't subscribe because I can't have piles of dead tree versions stacking up, and I don't even have a good address to have them sent to. You can watermark PDFs/whatever with the subscriber's info if you're worried about people sharing them around, then when a copy hits the web en masse you know who started it. Although honestly for a periodical I don't see much difference between giving away a print copy when I'm done with it and giving away an electronic copy. The print one would go in the recycling otherwise. Don't try to limit the end users in how they can enjoy your product. The pirates are going to do what they do anyway, and by trying to control how the legitimate paid users can read it you lose subscribers because people just don't want to deal with yet another proprietary system.

I want to change my answer - what Jay said.

When I'm out of wifi range camping somewhere I can still read a PDF. I can choose any number of quality products that can already read/digest them. I can print it effectively if there is an article I want to read sans electricity - like in the crapper at the track.

Sold. Do PDFs. With the piracy issue... yes, someone will make it available to thousands of people who are not paying for it. They weren't going to anyway - but your advertisers don't care - that is a few thousand more viewers. Some of whom might not have read it otherwise and might want to pick up a printed copy via mail.

@ Margie:

I'm not even suggesting you bother to track them down, I'm suggesting most people would think twice about uploading their copy to yarrrrrrrrr.com if it had their name, address & subscriber number all over it. I would hazard a guess that most of us readers of a small-ish community centered mag like GRM have a non-trivial amount of respect for the creators who produce it.

In reply to Marjorie Suddard:

Thank you for the reassurance. Sorry us anti-digi-mag types aren't being more helpful. FWIW, our local PCA's mag is delivered via PDF using a username/password. They restrict it for 60 days using their own website, then it's public domain posted. I've heard that Adobe can build-in that type of protection as well (view-only for x days, then downloadable).

Almost all of the online magazines or app magazines are pretty poor so far, in my experience. They don't index well, slow to load, poor formatting for an electronic screen, etc.

But take a look at Taunton Press and their magazines, like Fine Woodworking. Their stuff seems to work pretty darn well.

They have something else for you guys to consider. You can buy all their back issues on a disk, completely indexed and searchable. That's heaven on earth, imo. I've used that several times.

Imagine your own readers being able to research every article you've ever written about the Honda CRX, or to follow the entire story of the Rotospit and the like. I'd sure be interested in buying something like that from you guys, and I don't think I'm alone in that.

foxtrapper wrote: They have something else for you guys to consider. You can buy all their back issues on a disk, completely indexed and searchable. That's heaven on earth, imo. I've used that several times.

This would be awesome!!!! If this was available, I would have bought it yesterday.

Let me preface this by stating I haven't read the GRM digital editions, nor have I read any other digital magazine, or e-book(except for service manuals, which are really just searchable PDFs).

That said, if a digital version of GRM looked just like the print edition - but the articles allowed you to play videos with additional content, clicking on advertisers took you to their pages and/or direct links to their email, etc., then I could certainly see the value-add in that, and may actually be interested!

foxtrapper wrote: They have something else for you guys to consider. You can buy all their back issues on a disk, completely indexed and searchable. I'd sure be interested in buying something like that from you guys, and I don't think I'm alone in that.

And I would be one of the first in line for discs of back issues, no question!

Thoughts from someone who recently gave in and bought a Wifi-only iPad.

I have a couple of magazine subs on it, but they're mostly UK mags. The big ones for me are evo and Classic Porsche. Both are expensive mags in the US when it comes to the dead tree version, plus I've had enough trouble with the sub for PPC (sorry to mention that mag) as issues would go missing for a month at a time. PPC finally fixed that but I can't expect the larger mags to essentially mail out the magazine to me "manually" rather than via their distributor so being able to get these magazines for a decent price and without the vagaries of both Royal Mail and USPS is a nice bonus.

When it comes to US mags, Motorcycle Classics gives you a free Zinio sub with the paper one so I very occasionally use that but I get the paper version anyway.

From a comparison point, Motorcycle Classics and Classic Porsche essentially "just" give you the magazine. Both work pretty well on the iPad. Because both are using exactly the same layout for the print and electron versions, I tend to have to zoom in a little as my eyesight isn't that great but it still works pretty well. It does take a little away from the whole magazine experience and ideally I'd prefer the layout to be more accommodating to the electronic devices. For a single device viewer that is probably not too hard, for the others, well, good luck...

I'm waiting for my first evo issue to show up as I bought the sub "blind" on the recommendation of a friend in the UK. The couple of magazine teasers you can get your hands on have an iPad-app specific layout that (IMHO) makes the magazine more usable than the print-on-iPad layout but I'll reserve judgement on that for a couple of issues. Either way, between the bonus content that the iPad edition comes with (videos etc) and the reworked layout I'm really looking forward to seeing the next couple of issues.

I also tried out a couple of magazines on the Kindle app on the iPad (we don't have a bookstore in town so getting some mags is getting pretty hard) - again, they're the same layout as the print mags (the books seem to have more of an e-reader layout, the mags I tried didn't) but it worked fine for reading on a plane. Compared to Zinio I don't think Kindle has a (big) edge. Both seem to work OK.

I still like paper editions of magazines but the convenience of lugging an iPad with 10-15 magazines to read on a plane vs the magazines themselves makes me prefer the iPad for travelling.

Either way I think a downloadable version of the magazine that you get with the print subscription is a good thing to have. I still prefer to have the paper issue because reading that while soaking in the hot tub is much more relaxing that worrying when (not if) I'd drop the iPad in the water. Plus, I like my "archive" of the older version, although a back issues collection on disk that's properly searchable would be cool.

I occasionally read an electronic version of a magazine that uses the RealView viewer (Conde Nast, publisher). It's kinda lousy: basically you get what is likely a PDF of the actual magazine, with no links to content via the ToC, and which is a PITA to read on a computer that doesn't have a huge screen (e.g., trying to read it on a 14-inch laptop will make you scream). Also, it's the same typeface as the printed version, which I suppose helps to retain their branding, but makes it more difficult to read online (don't use serifed fonts on a computer).

So I guess my point is that if you're going to re-distill the mag into an electronic format, don't turn your back on the benefits of web-like navigation tools, and, if possible, don't constrain the content's actual dimensions/layout to be exactly like the print version: the entire web uses scrollable text and hotlinks, so don't skip them. If I have to keep increasing view size and moving the doc around to fit on the screen, I will never read the electronic version again.

0.02 and good luck.

PS There may be studies out there on the usability of these apps; it might be a good idea to do a little looking.

WIRED's app is the best. Tons more content. Videos. Perfect formatting. Easily readable. Downloads, then can be viewed offline. This is what we need.

I don't have much to add except that I used to work for NatGeo. The online content we produced was a lot of work and expense, for no discernible ROI. They had the appetite and budget for it, but I can't imagine that a smaller company would.

...and now, something completely different. (No, this post was not composed by llamas.)

I dislike the current digital version...I can't open and read it without having a dead tree version handy. (What's the point in that? If I already have the dead tree version, I don't need the digital.) The best Idea in this thread so far is the CD archive, but you could also put such things behind a paywall. Another idea:sell vanity naming for the forum; i.e. copy the HAMB's idea of having supporting members. Anybody can use their forum, but the ones who pay money to keep it alive have "HAMB Alliance Member" by their name

BTW, this was typed on a kindle DX with the images turned off

I would read books on a Kindle (or other black/ white easily legible format).

I would not read magazines that way, so I am not your demographic.

There is something about the tactile interaction with the pictures, captions, articles, feel of the paper, etc.

Books are about the story. Magazines are about the experience.

I can't read newspapers online either.

One note: Your magazine maintains a very high level of print and production quality/value (photos, layout, etc). When you offer it electronically, you loose control over that aspect. The visual quality of an electronic version of GRM will not vary greatly from an e-version of the National Enquirer (or other rag). It is in the hands of the user and their equipment/ software.

I understand you need to be in this eWorld. I also see some of the downfalls.

I have the same problem selling laser engraved products. They don't present themselves very well electronically (which impacts the sales value).

There is value to exclusivity. Don't loose it.

BTW- this website works like dirt on my Blackberry. Not your fault, it just does. I have to be really desperate for a GRM fix to do that. I avoid it like the plague.

I'm another one who just browses a digital version of anything when at a campsite. That being said, I'm usually camping at the race track, so automotive stuff is what I'm looking to read.

I have a Kindle, I don't even know where it is.

I have an iPad and a Kindle in the house. I've not read a book or a magazine on either in the years that we've owned them. I tried to give them both a shot and didn't like them. I even purchased an e-book that I was really interested in reading, but didn't make it through the first chapter in the year plus I've had it. This is a book that I would've read cover to cover in a couple days if it were a real book. In short I am not a fan. Someday when there are no paper books, I guess I will convert, but until then I plan on reading paper.

Magazines are even more so than books. I like to pick them up, put them down, read a bit here, read a bit there. Sometimes I read a whole issue of GRM in what seems like a whole bunch of 30 second sessions. I've only tried to look at the very first digital issue you put out. Haven't looked at another. It's just not for me, so I guess I have nothing to constructive to add here except to add my voice to the choir saying do what you want or feel you need to with the digital edition, just don't berkeley with the real paper version too much.

So I guess my point is that if you're going to re-distill the mag into an electronic format, don't turn your back on the benefits of web-like navigation tools, and, if possible, don't constrain the content's actual dimensions/layout to be exactly like the print version: the entire web uses scrollable text and hotlinks, so don't skip them. If I have to keep increasing view size and moving the doc around to fit on the screen, I will never read the electronic version again.

I was going to add that I have tried a few including GRM on my Nook Tablet and the issue I have is with trying to recreate the magazine in a non-print format to replicate the print format. Don't do it. Make it a web product through and through. Take advantage of the tools as mentioned. I too don't want to increase sizes then move around the screen. Yeah, the Nook is only a 7 inch screen, but it is a good size and I like it's interface. Start from scratch as if the magazine didn't exist. Forget what you know about making a print edition and go from there. Unlearn then re-learn. Does that make sense?

Take a look at some of the comic book apps that you tap and increase panels and move through the comic as you would to follow the story. You could link ads to articles so that part of the screen is ad and part is content/story/pictures in the same vein that you place ads in the magazine next to relevant stories.

Looking forward to whatever you come up with.

Keep up the GREAT work!

Paper only for me. The internet is for blogs and forums.

Marjorie Suddard wrote: I'm curious what people have purchased, if they know who the provider was, how the experience was, etc.--not so much in the existential question of electrons vs. print... pretty sure I've thought a lot about those already.

I have an android device and a kindle. The old school kindle with E-ink. Black and white wouldn't work for a mag. I think a mag would work better with an iPad, Kindle Fire, or some other color/touch input e-reader. I would like the idea of an android app where I could get the mag before it was mailed to my house.

I don't know if this would be useful but I've been using the flipboard beta on Android for awhile. It's slick. It works well with rendering websites and news feeds into a great magazine looking format. I don't know how it would work with an actual magazine but the presentation seems like a good fit.

SVreX wrote: BTW- this website works like dirt on my Blackberry. Not your fault, it just does. I have to be really desperate for a GRM fix to do that. I avoid it like the plague.

The mobile version of this site: http://m.grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/latest-topics works well on my kindle DX. It works REALLY well when I turn the images off.

(Not a problem with the images or how GRM presents them....a problem with the limited memory of the browser on the DX....the hotlink thread will crash it before the page even fully loads.)

That's exactly my point.

How do you say a magazine (chock full of images) works really well when you turn the images off?

Not trying to bust your chops.

The quality of the image experience is out of your (GRM's) hands when you go digital.

I occasionally read a local off road bike emag. It's very well done, it's free, and worth every penny. I might pay a trivial amount to support them if they asked, but would not pay a regular subscription price. It's not the same as a magazine, and it's not worth the same amount of money. I have read a few others and would not be willing to pay for them. I have not looked at the GRM version.