Tipping is starting to really pick me

Boost_Crazy said:

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

As I have said (three times now) it's WHERE THE MONEY COMES FROM.  It comes from me and you instead of the employer.  Employers are getting away with paying less at your expense because the government lets them get away with it by not imposing a fair wage.

I totally respect your opinion and it's obvious we're not going to agree, but thanks for the fun discussion.

But it all comes from the customer, that's where the money to operate the business comes from. The customer pays by tips or higher prices.

Strongly disagree.  As a former manager of some dump diners and some really swanky spots, this is never the case.  The prices you pay for your food are driven by the market.  If you raise the price on your Salmon special by 10% and sales of that Salmon dish go down 12%, you readjust your prices.  The money isn't going into keeping the food cheap (they will ALWAYS sell food for what they can get), the money is going into the profit at the top.  In some cases, that's a modest amount that barely keeps the doors open.  In other cases it means the owner buys a McLaren instead of a Mercedes.  The scale changes, but the margins vary widely.  In ANY of the restaurants or bars where I worked/managed, if you couldn't keep the doors open because you couldn't afford labor, you had failed so miserably at your job of creating traffic that you don't deserve to be in business.

The permission to pay wait staff junk wages means that money goes to the owner's pocket.  Period.  This is further evidenced by the fact that in those areas where the minimum wage is $13 or $15, the price of a burrito at a Chipotle franchise is the same as what it costs in areas where it's $7.25.  What the lowest employees are paid has absolutely nothing to do with the price of the food.  It's not even on the same budget sheet.  

You are paying for the perceived quality of the food, the ambience, and the exclusivity.  Waffle House is cheap because they use cheap ingredients, the property is cheap, and they can crank out volume at their 2000 locations.  A fine dining establishment is expensive because they use higher quality ingredients, pay more for the property, and put more time and effort into dishes at their one or two locations.  In both cases, the wait staff might be paid $13/hr.  The overall operating costs of paying wait staff a differing wage is peanuts compared to the big picture.  This idea that higher wages will mean your BigMac will cost $30 is a long-debunked myth.  Adding $5/hr to five employees is $25/hour.  They might serve 200 Sandwiches in that hour at $4 each, and they pay about 36 cents per burger to produce.  That's nearly $1000/hr revenue.  $25 more for a living wage doesn't seem to translate to more expensive food.  The real truth is that the cost of labor for many places in the service industry is a tiny fraction of operating costs.  That's why you don't see big companies laying off 20 employees to balance the books, you see them lay of 20,000.  It takes a LOT of salaries to make a dent in the bottom line at the top.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Pretty much none of the above is true. Again, were are you getting this information? What was the net margin of the restaurants that you managed. What what the labor as a percentage of costs? If you knew those things, we wouldn't be having this discussion. First item on a Google search on restaurant labor-

Labor cost

Your example is completely made up numbers, with zero value in this discussion. We can make up number to support our arguments all day, but fake numbers will only get you fake answers. Go look up the cost of a Big Mac around the country- a Big Mac in CA costs more than a Big Mac in PA. We won't have $30 Big Macs because there is no market for $30 Big Macs. McDonalds will set the price to the point where the return on the higher price is not offset by the drop in sales. But there is a limit. If they have to set the price lower than what is profitable in the market, that needs to be made up elsewhere. Raising the prices of other menu items, or reducing costs. They can't change their fixed costs. The can reduce service- less employees for a given shift, move to automation. They can reduce food quality or quantity. In reality, they tend to do a mix of all of the above. And the customer pays for that. Both directly through increased cost, or indirectly through lower quality of service or food Vs. prior expectations. Getting less of something for the same cost is the same as a price increase. See boxes of cereal. 

Picking restaurants is the absolute worst example to make a case of the greedy businessman not paying their employees fair wages. If it we were how you say, I'd own a restaurant right now. But I know how much work and risk it is for such little return. There is a reason why independent restaurants struggle and fail and why most of the restaurants remaining are large chains. It's freaking hard to be profitable without the scale of a chain. 
 

But again, none of this matters, because you are trying to find a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. 

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

Boost_Crazy said:

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

So you didn't make minimum wage. Significantly more. Where is this problem that we are trying to solve again? 

As I have said (three times now) it's WHERE THE MONEY COMES FROM.  It comes from me and you instead of the employer.  Employers are getting away with paying less at your expense because the government lets them get away with it by not imposing a fair wage.

I totally respect your opinion and it's obvious we're not going to agree, but thanks for the fun discussion.

All the money comes from you and me, whether it is a tip or the employer pays them  That is where the employer gets all there money in the first place, from the customers.

In your opinion, has service in restaurants gotten better or worse in the last few years?  

Do you think that is because the restaurant is paying individual workers 5 times more, or because there are 80% less people working there?

I don't know that this is actually a difference of opinion

Toebra said:

All the money comes from you and me, whether it is a tip or the employer pays them  That is where the employer gets all there money in the first place, from the customers.

In your opinion, has service in restaurants gotten better or worse in the last few years?  

Do you think that is because the restaurant is paying individual workers 5 times more, or because there are 80% less people working there?

I don't know that this is actually a difference of opinion

No. Most of the money from us, as consumers, goes to pay off the private equity investors that the owner took money from to open the doors. If you aren't making money in 6mo, they shove you out of the way and run it then close the place down.

Service has gotten worse as the wage increased, the work load also went up. If you had 4 tables for $3/hr, you now have 6 for $8/hr. I've noticed the restaurant is still full and wait times for simple things have gotten longer along with faces of the employees suggesting burnout. If you want burnout, waitstaff have it easy, healthcare is 1000% harder and don't get tips to cover the abuse from administration, management, other staff, and lastly, ungrateful patients.

Timely article about tipping

We're going out to a somewhat priccey steakhouse tonight. The last few times we were there the service was marginal, and when I informed the manager she didn't seem to care a great deal. I had her number because of a particularly bad experience we had there about 6 months ago, which she comped. Why are we going back? Because the food is good and we don't really have any other choices locally.

I've thought about bringing along a piece of paper so I can write out the reasons I didn't leave a very good tip.

Are we considering the value of exposure when determining the total compensation of service jobs?

I flew from BUR to PHX yesterday for a quick business trip and I decided to have dinner at a Cheese Cake Factory (#big dinning, #slave labor, #capitalism is evil).

My server was super attentive and repeatedly displayed real smarts...something went wrong with the automated ordering system so she crossed out my incorrect order and hand wrote what I wanted in the most beautiful, precise, penmanship you could imagine.

While meeting with site leadership early this morning before doing what I was flown out to do, I was informed that the site has had a large surge in vacancies recently.

I left work a little early today so I could have dinner at CCF under the same conditions in the hopes that I would get the same server.

Although I was seated in a different section this time, she was there and without going into details I approached her and let her know that she had been discussed at my company (Fortune 500 - Medical Devices) and I'd be happy to get her past all the filters.

My point is...Good-Is-Good, service sector companies are at constant risk of losing talent...I just came in for a quick dinner but I may well have left pillaging one of their employees.

Far, far better her talents be used to make life saving medical devices than serving meals; right?    

In reply to RX Reven' :

I've done this. One of the best guys I ever hired I got him out of a gym, a buddy did the same thing with a furniture salesman.

And in my earlier days I was offered multiple jobs when I was a waiter

Peabody said:

I've thought about bringing along a piece of paper so I can write out the reasons I didn't leave a very good tip.

Well, that was a pleasant surprise. The service was (mostly) excellent. She made one mistake and more than made up for it. PW ordered a 10 oz chunk of meat. I went for the 14. When they arrived I thought they looked the same. Of course, PW thought I was nuts and overreacting. I didn't and when she came back a few minutes later to check that everything was to our satisfaction (!), I asked. Yes, I apologize, it was my mistake I wrote down 10 for both. I will get you another piece of meat and, of course, you will only be charged for the 10. She came out with about a 6 ounce piece which, as it turns out, I didn't even need. As I was paying the bill she also came back with a piece of cheesecake in a takeout container, and a container for the extra piece of meat I didn't eat. Drinks were filled, service was timely, and she got the tip she deserved. And we're having shaved steak sandwiches with sauteed onions and peppers for dinner tonight.