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tuna55
tuna55 UltimaDork
6/25/14 7:42 a.m.
wbjones wrote: I'm not seeing much subsidizing at the gas pumps these days those that purchase EV's are given tax breaks … that's coming out of my pocket … the drivers of EV's aren't paying road use tax, that's coming out of my pocket … I'm all for innovative ways to transport folk around the country … but I firmly believe we all should pay our way … add credit card slots for recharging and I'm fine with um now get off my lawn

My point is that our country is already very socialized when it comes to transportation. Nearly all automakers, domestic or abroad, are subsidized by their governments. All fuel sources are. Obviously roads are. This not a "free market vs socialism" discussion. It you, as a consumer, making a choice on basis of cost.

I have my own opinions of how things -should- function, but there is not a free market transportation choice available to you or I right now unless we walk through the woods.

tuna55
tuna55 UltimaDork
6/25/14 7:43 a.m.
KyAllroad wrote: Congrats Tuna, I'll note that I see exactly zero EVs in Lexington. Given that our electricity is made by burning coal, using the heat from that to superheat steam, turn a generator, generate electricity, transmit said juice through an aging and overtaxed grid, stored in batteries that are made from nasty earth unfriendly chemicals.... Sorry, just channeling my inner Jeremy Clarkson.

I do not pretend that they are saving the planet. It's a very complicated picture as far as that goes. How much the power plant produces in emissions, how much emissions it takes to create the battery, how much of that battery is then wasted and what type of waste it is when the battery is exhausted. There are similar issues with oil extraction and production as well.

tuna55
tuna55 UltimaDork
6/25/14 7:47 a.m.

Listen, this should probably not turn into a socio/political discussion about EVs. I bought it primarily for the reasons below:

It was nearly as cheap to own as a cheap used car

It is reliable, as compared with a used car gasoline engine counterpart simply because it has less parts

It's a new car under warranty that fits my needs in terms of space and range.

JohnRW1621
JohnRW1621 UltimaDork
6/25/14 7:50 a.m.

I enjoy the insight and education that you have provided on the ownership experience

KyAllroad
KyAllroad Reader
6/25/14 8:07 a.m.

True, and thank you for helping usher in the future. I was just busting your bits.

tuna55
tuna55 UltimaDork
6/25/14 11:18 a.m.

Boy some of those TTAC commenters really don't like the Glock sticker or the steel wheels. Put the discussion here and it turns into a deep socioeconomic discussion. Not sure what that says about the comparative audiences of either outlet.

Anyway, to those ends: The sticker was done with full knowledge of the downsides, and I still think is worth the irony (not to mention, I do like Glocks). The wheels are bare because I hate hubcaps. With a black car, it actually looks OK, and I don't want to spend money on a leased car that was purchased explicitly because of a cost reduction.

NOHOME
NOHOME SuperDork
6/25/14 4:49 p.m.
tuna55 wrote:
NOHOME wrote: And we finally meet Mrs Tuna.
no no no, that's Caroline

Does Mrs Tuna know about Caroline? You sly old dog! Your secret is safe with me.

Thinkkker
Thinkkker UltraDork
6/25/14 9:30 p.m.

So, we thought about doing this. We have ended up getting rid of our lease Corolla made some cash on that one and then sold our truck.

If we didnt drive the BMW at all in the week and only for long trips, it would cost us $70 a month more for the Electric. I think if we were to look at it from a full cash outlay standpoint we already paid the cash for the BMW and own it so didn't include that price it may make sense to go Leaf.

I would like to hear more on the ownership. Our commute is 30-40 miles a day so this could work for us on a daily aspect.

JohnRW1621
JohnRW1621 UltimaDork
6/25/14 9:36 p.m.

You want to really dig in on the socio-economic side...
Get a bumper sticker that read something like, "Zero dependance on foreign oil" instead of the zero emissions statement.

Or

"It may be a foreign car but it uses no foreign oil...who's the real enemy?"

tuna55
tuna55 UltimaDork
6/25/14 10:01 p.m.
Thinkkker wrote: I would like to hear more on the ownership. Our commute is 30-40 miles a day so this could work for us on a daily aspect.

My round trip is about 30 miles as well. On a good weather type day, I can make it back and forth three times. In the winter, I can usually make two if I need to. Every LEAF comes standard with seat heaters, but this past winter I had two kids in the back seats with carseats. Seat heaters don't work with carseats, so the heater was on nearly all the time. Without the heater on, it goes much farther on a charge in bad weather.

It drives very well. Smooth and quiet. It doesn't get pushed around by crosswinds, and it's very quick for in-town driving since there is no "throttle response" and no shifting. It handles well. It has low rolling resistance tires, but cornering is grippy enough for me. Understeer only comes on after you're going way too fast. The brakes are excellent, and for normal in-town sane driving, you never even use them since the regen works so well.

Back seat room is great, front seat room is great, cargo room in the hatch is excellent - better than the PT Cruiser. It takes a while to charge on 110V, like 10-12 hours. It works fine for my use, though. If it's not charged in the morning, fine. It's never been bad. We've only had to park it in lieu of the van a few times after tons of driving. I charge it in the driveway, it's never been in the garage. The charger has an excellent lock, and the cord is quite robust.

Anything else you want to know? It generally goes, stops and turns like any other car, but has no transmission fluid, no fuel injectors, no spark plugs, no air filters, no exhaust system, no throttle body, no catalytic converters, no floppy engine mounts to wear out, no vacuum system to leak. It's pretty simple.

bastomatic
bastomatic SuperDork
6/26/14 5:01 a.m.
Thinkkker wrote: If we didnt drive the BMW at all in the week and only for long trips, it would cost us $70 a month more for the Electric. I think if we were to look at it from a full cash outlay standpoint *we already paid the cash for the BMW and own it so didn't include that price* it may make sense to go Leaf.

I broke down all the variables and it cost me potentially* the exact same monthly to lease my Leaf as it did to keep my paid-off Mazda5. Big variables for the Mazda were gas expenses, maintenance, and depreciation. For the Leaf, total costs were about $12k out of pocket for a 3 year lease. That's a hard number NOT to hit when owning a gas-burning vehicle.

  • in my actual experience, the Leaf has actually cost quite a bit less to lease than my numbers anticipated. I was able to get a great deal on the lease, my utility offered me a markedly reduced rate and free level 2 station, and I've been able to find free juice a number of times. Last month the bill was $15 for 825 miles.
volvoclearinghouse
volvoclearinghouse Dork
6/26/14 7:30 a.m.

Here's Brian in his fancy modern black electron car!

tuna55
tuna55 UltimaDork
6/26/14 7:43 a.m.

In reply to volvoclearinghouse:

That guy has WAY more hair than I do

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
6/26/14 8:44 a.m.

For giggles you should put this bumper sticker

And this one..

Next to the glock sticker. (please note this is a joke).

Klayfish
Klayfish SuperDork
6/26/14 9:12 a.m.
tuna55 wrote: Listen, this should probably not turn into a socio/political discussion about EVs. I bought it primarily for the reasons below: It was nearly as cheap to own as a cheap used car It is reliable, as compared with a used car gasoline engine counterpart simply because it has less parts It's a new car under warranty that fits my needs in terms of space and range.

Testify, my brother!! That was exactly why I got mine. I had/have very little interest in the socio/enviro/political aspect of the car....whatever. It was the perfect car for the job. Can't wait to get another.

dculberson
dculberson UberDork
6/26/14 9:25 a.m.

People will politicize anything, be it cars, light bulbs, or what you eat for dinner. I hope the car keeps working for you - seems like a great tool! (Hey, can we figure out a way to politicize hammers?)

racerdave600
racerdave600 Dork
6/26/14 10:11 a.m.

I've been thinking a lot about this thread and the reaction electric and hybrid cars get from different aspects of society. For me, as a tech geek, I think they are pretty cool. I love my internal combustion, but lets face it, eventually it will go away as other technologies come on stream.

I find it fascinating that companies are finding other methods to power cars, and that some manufacturers are finding ways to incorporated them into sports cars. The way I see it, the more Leafs, Volts, etc. are sold, the more this tech will improve and find its way into exciting cars that we would want to buy for more than appliances. Also, the more that are sold, the more battery research that will take place. There's nothing like having a place to sell your product to spur on R&D!

The future will get here, its up to us to decide if we want to ride it or get run over by it.

Thinkkker
Thinkkker UltraDork
6/26/14 10:23 a.m.

Tuna, How big a ole boy are ya? :) I just ask to see where the plenty of room is in the scheme of things.

I think if the family car goes to pot, we may have to seriously consider this, becuase as said, gas aint cheap. Then its just a question of how much it will run.

A couple of other question, what is the payout at loan end? Does the car seem like it is put together well after 3 years can you see the interior degrading to a pile of parts?? I wonder what the overall lifespan of the vehicle can be equated too.

Klayfish
Klayfish SuperDork
6/26/14 10:46 a.m.

I'm 5'9", so I'm not giant. However, I didn't have my seat all the way back. I don't think an NBA center will fit very well, but I think the car will fit 97% of the population, both by height and weight.

The payout at the end of my loan was something like $400. Mine was the loaded SL model. I put down $2k and payments were $260/month including taxes. The car seemed very well put together. I put 12k miles on mine in 10 months before it was destroyed, and I had no concerns with any of the interior bits. It all felt well built, nothing seriously flimsy. Nothing started to chip, fade, peel, etc...

tuna55
tuna55 UltimaDork
6/26/14 1:52 p.m.
Thinkkker wrote: Tuna, How big a ole boy are ya? :) I just ask to see where the plenty of room is in the scheme of things. I think if the family car goes to pot, we may have to seriously consider this, becuase as said, gas aint cheap. Then its just a question of how much it will run. A couple of other question, what is the payout at loan end? Does the car seem like it is put together well *after 3 years can you see the interior degrading to a pile of parts?*? I wonder what the overall lifespan of the vehicle can be equated too.

I leased for two years, there is a $185 (down because I leased through Nissan's VPP program) and I cannot recall the buyout. I am 6'1" 160 lb and fit nicely with the front seat all of the way back, the tilt wheel was necessary to give me some knee room.

Interior quality seems very good. I've hauled things along with two destructive kiddos, sometimes three destructive kiddos, and not a loose bit to be found yet.

Klayfish
Klayfish SuperDork
6/26/14 3:05 p.m.

Thinkkker,
Were you asking for the buyout price for the car? With my car being totaled just a few weeks ago, I know that my buyout price was around $22,500.

Caroline_Ellis
Caroline_Ellis
6/29/14 2:06 p.m.

Feel free to covet away, boys :) sadly, I'm kinda taken. Thanks for reading!

tuna55
tuna55 UltimaDork
6/30/14 9:14 a.m.
Caroline_Ellis wrote: Feel free to covet away, boys :) sadly, I'm kinda taken. Thanks for reading!

Wait, you were single when you bought the Sonic, right?

ryanty22
ryanty22 HalfDork
6/30/14 3:55 p.m.

1sorry the leaf is not pretty but is isnt uglier than the cube. one car ever is uglier than the cube and thats the aztec

Caroline_Ellis
Caroline_Ellis New Reader
7/7/14 2:34 p.m.

Whatever gave you the impression that I was single when I bought the Sonic? I've had a boyfriend since I started writing for TTAC...it just helps the clicks if people think I'm available. So now y'all know a Caroline secret :)

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