Like the title says, our water heater tank is going to need to be replaced (yay). Just out of sheer curiosity, would it be worth switching to a tankless system?
It'd be electric, not gas, and I (likely) don't have to worry about any pipes freezing because Florida, if that matters.
If impartial either way, I'm really just curious what you all have to say.
Do you have enough power available to run one? Apparently, they can consume 60 amps or more while they're running.
Honestly, I've always wanted to replace my gas water heater with a hybrid electric heat pump tank unit. You're in Florida, where you'd have better access to warm air year-round than I do... you could set one up to draw in air from outside, dump the heat into your water, and then discharge nice, cool air into your house for you.
They are very expensive and as noted you need a big ass power supply for electric tankless.
Agree with looking at a hybrid heat pump electric unit as the best compromise.
I have a service agreement with a local company that does winter/summer tune ups on the HVAC to keep it tip top.
When they came out in November I asked about going tankless when the time comes (our water heater and heat are natural gas), even though his job is to try and upsell me, he told me the initial upfront cost isn't worth it for the gain in efficiency. It would likely require an increased gas supply, all new ducting and be approx 3x more expensive than going back in with another tank water heater.
Heard on the need for a better power supply.
I wasn't aware of the hybrid models, I might have to do a little more digging on that.
How many people are in the house ? Number of showers per day ?
number of bathrooms with a shower / tub ?
Can you put a small electric water heater under the kitchen sink ?
I guess with that info its easier to figure out how large of a water heater you need...
the 60 amp service would stop me from doing electric tankless.
You're spelling it wrong. It's not "tankless," it's "thankless."
Our gas tank style water heater got real slow. We upgraded to a tankless, for volume reasons, five persons, one wash machine, dishwasher. We never run out of water, I fill my hot tub with it.
No more waiting for recovery for the next shower.
My installer says the mfg site will tell you that you need two in tandem and a bigger gas line, we did none of that. Two showers at the same time is fine, three works but with less flow.
I descale it once per year, and they are repairable.
In reply to akylekoz :
Which tankless did you get? My water heater is in the crawlspace of my split level and I had to install an electric 15 years or so ago as I couldn't get the short gas water heaters anymore. Now that the electric is living on borrowed time, I started shopping for short electric water heaters, and they are also near impossible to find for my application. I really wanted a natural gas tankless, but I was told I needed a 3/4" gas line.
Will also chime in that an air source hybrid is also about the cheapest way to run a dehumidifier in whatever the space is where it's installed.
We're on our second one-- reliability issues with a first gen unit, especially after it wasn't properly sheltered during a sheet rock install. Been much better with the second gen unit. Utility offered rebates that covered some of the initial acquisition cost.
The only regret my ex has with her gas tankless is the very long time it takes to make hot water. You turn on the water, a flow sensor activates, then an ignitor heats up, then a valve opens to start gas flow, then a sensor detects if it's actually lit, then it starts making things warm. She's a bit upset at the waste of the water it creates.
Make sure you pay close attention to duty cycle. The electric tankless I had in my previous apartment would only run for about 7 minutes before it shut itself off for 3-4 minutes. Really annoying in the shower.
To build on what Curtis said, the flow rate required to get hot water can be an issue.
If you are using high efficiency clothes washer, the short burst of fill may not trigger the hot water heater to turn on, and even if it does you may still end up with mostly unheated water. Same thing when washing hands, or running the dishwasher.
A recirculating pump alleviates that issue quite a bit.
In reply to Colin Wood :
Where is the water heater located? Where you're in Florida, I'll guess it's in the garage? If so consider one of the heat pump / hybrid electric water heaters. The warm garage will provide plenty of warm air energy for the heat pump cycle to work properly and the side benefit is that it will help to cool your garage somewhat. The hybrid should work with the same electrical feed as the existing, they are supposed to use quite a bit less electricity compared to a comparable conventional electric due to the heat pump cycle. Check to see if the state or the utility have rebate programs as that can help with the initial expense.
confuZion3 said:Do you have enough power available to run one? Apparently, they can consume 60 amps or more while they're running.
More like 140 amps. They take a LOT of power.
I would never spend the money on a tankless water heater. The up front costs are too high (in my opinion).
Having said that, I have never met a person who doesn't enjoy their tankless. The people who are willing to spend that money are not disappointed.
That's for gas.
Electric?? That's an absolute no in my opinion. They are only useful for small point of use applications (like under a lavatory sink). And it's highly unlikely your panel has sufficient excess capacity to support a whole house electric tankless (which could mean needing a service upgrade).
Definitely consider installing a thermostatically controlled mixing valve if you go with a tank unit. If your situation enables it, a circulating loop and pump is also a nice addition.
Another thing about tankless heaters is they require annual maintenance, in particular descaling to remove mineral deposits.
Thank you, everyone, for your feedback. I saw a wide range of opinions online and had a difficult time finding any conclusive consensus.
Sounds like I'll be sticking to a tank water heater, at least for now.
Colin Wood said:I wasn't aware of the hybrid models, I might have to do a little more digging on that.
My sister had one of the hybrid units installed a couple years ago and as far as I know they are happy with it. If you decide to explore that route I can ask for more detailed feedback on their experience.
Have had two different Tankless heaters over the last 20 years. Installed them myself so only cost to me was my time. If you don't have gas or propane don't even bother. Like mentioned before the electrical draw would be enormous.
Cost wise for the unit and install is a bit more for sure. I can say that my gas usage was cut in half. Did it make up for the extra cost. Yeah in about 5 years so it does make some sense. The cost of electricity and gas is fairly inexpensive in our state. So if it was higher then the savings for the extra cost would be faster.
With the gas one we have it is a little weak right now as it's about 10 years old. The systems now are far better as in having holding tanks to mitigate the cold spot's from short use. They also do not take that long to heat the water. The main problem for that is how the piping is routed. Going from a standard tank to a tankless and not using a log type manifold to distribute the lines is a killer.
I've had the last 20 years of talking to Plumbers on jobs and picking their brains about how they would pipe for a tankless. Most of them were the same answer about going with a log style distrubution for the lines out to the fixtures.
This is just my retired electrician $.02 worth of knowledge.
SV reX said:Electric?? That's an absolute no in my opinion. They are only useful for small point of use applications (like under a lavatory sink). And it's highly unlikely your panel has sufficient excess capacity to support a whole house electric tankless (which could mean needing a service upgrade).
Real user here, tankless electric in FL for a 2700 sq ft house. It took the last two breaker spots in our panel, so the EV charger will eventually require some finagling but we'll keep burning petrol in the cars for a while. Kids are gone so it is just wife and me. I wouldn't want to run two showers simultaneously, but it's glorious to be able to do two or three back-to-back showers with unlimited hot water. I can tell when I'm in the shower and the dishwasher or washing machine cycles, but it is just a blip. When doing dishes you do need to turn the faucet on like you mean it to trigger the hot to start flowing. A slow stream not all the way to hot isn't going to get you hot water. That's a downside I can live with for the benefit.
We just got a new water heater when we bought our place a couple years ago. Also FL, also electric. We went with a tank heater for the same reasons as everyone here is saying. It just wasn't worth the cost upfront or the electric draw.
We went a touch bigger capacity than we technically needed, and we never have problems with the hot water running out.
We actually had the new tank installed on Monday. I think that was one of the best showers I've ever taken after not having hot water for a few days.
I still appreciate the insight from everyone, though. 
One thing I never thought of when we went tankless water heater, is the filter filters everything. EVERYTHING.
Imagine my surprise when I was flushing and flushing and wondering wtf I ate that wouldn't go down the bowl: No more chlorine in the water anymore. We now have to use blue tablets to keep the algae away in the tank on the toilet.
The warranty I got from the installer is 10 years on everything they touched when they installed. After 7-8 years we had a weird random cold water spike in the shower that got a little more often. They swapped the unit for the next size up and installed it free of charge. We just have to call them out every year for inspection. Last year it was $65 and included water testing.
Another thing, the filter we have has to flush every 10k gallons or so. It is automated, it is just weird coming home every once in a while to a super wet driveway. I think it dumps something between 30-50 gallons. There was a PVC pipe that the installers ran down the side of the house so it dumps the water away from the foundation. This is water we have already paid for, just running down the driveway. Ended up rerouting the dump pipe to the back yard, hooked it up to a standard garden hose and daisychained two of those sprinklers-on-stilts so the water at least keeps the back garden green.
Super hot showers, it takes about 15 seconds to get warm water from the furthest tap.
In reply to Russian Warship, Go Berkeley Yourself :
I'm quite sure I have a Navien.
Also mine has a built in programmable recirculation pump, it only goes to the farthest away fixture. You can set it to run just before you get up or when ever you want.
Descaling takes about 30 minutes and $15 once per year. My installer didn't descale his for five years and thinks it needs it now.
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