Washington Post said: Ivy League economist ethnically profiled, interrogated for doing math on American Airlines flight
Seriously, we need to just give it up. Actual damages from actual terrorist attacks would pale in comparison to what is being done to society as collateral damage by the "War On Terror".
Although I have to admit, not being Asian, Math has always instilled terror in me!
But he was obviously a member of al gebra! 
Was this the Freakonomics guy?
Read a piece by him a while back where he talked about getting held by TSA when they found a bunch of terrorism books in his bag
NOHOME wrote:Washington Post said: Ivy League economist ethnically profiled, interrogated for doing math on American Airlines flightSeriously, we need to just give it up. Actual damages from actual terrorist attacks would pale in comparison to what is being done to society as collateral damage by the "War On Terror".
Yeah, the War On Drugs has worked out just about as well.
Turboeric wrote: But he was obviously a member of al gebra!
Post of the Day.
He was caught with weapons of math instruction.
Turboeric wrote: But he was obviously a member of al gebra!
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand CUT!
That's a wrap folks. Move along, nothing else to see here.
The other joke circulating is he might also be part of Al Gorithm.
I was is an airport yesterday. I heard an announcement saying, "If you see something, say something". Then two birds flew past me. (How live birds found their way into an airport terminal building I don't know). Then I saw someone in a TSA uniform walking past. I resisted the urge walk over the TSA person and "say something" about unusual bird activity in the terminal. 
Wall-e wrote: He was caught with weapons of math instruction.
A challenger appears!
Back on 05, we took a buddy to Vegas for a Batchelor party. On the way home, another buddy was "picked" to go through the bomb sniffing machine. Upon emerging, I yelled, " HEY RYAN! CONGRATULATIONS! YOU'RE NOW STERILE!"
TSA was not amused.
Appleseed wrote: Back on 05, we took a buddy to Vegas for a Batchelor party. On the way home, another buddy was "picked" to go through the bomb sniffing machine. Upon emerging, I yelled, " HEY RYAN! CONGRATULATIONS! YOU'RE NOW STERILE!" TSA was not amused.
the TSA is never amused... they aren't paid enough to be amused, and if they were amused they couldn't show it because showing any sort of humanity would show the general public that they are the most useless agency in the government and have not actually prevented anything big from happening in the entire time their department has existed..
Was just talking about this incident at work, and how it's the latest example of the Culture of Fear that certain people are using to rile up their voter base.
Knurled wrote: Was just talking about this incident at work, and how it's the latest example of the Culture of Fear that certain people are using to rile up their voter base.
You mean like "Every single politician in Washington" kind of people.
I agree that it's stupid, but I'm having a difficult few months, so I'm going to play devil's advocate a bit..... 
"If you see something, say something"
How is that different from neighborhood watch programs, or speaking up when there is violence, or pointing out bullying in schools?
In today's day and age, it's easy for us to get distracted by our phones and not pay attention. Furthermore, most people avoid direct conversation with other humans in general.
How often do we text v. call? Email a company instead of calling a company? Chat instead of getting up from our desk to talk to someone? How likely do you think the average person will actually do something when they see something wrong instead of just putting their head down mumbling "It's not my business to get involved".
So, I can see where Homeland Security tries to encourage people to keep an eye on stuff.
Of course, you have the nutballs that take it to the extreme and start profiling everyone. And that makes for "/sarcasm on" GREAT "/sarcasm off" journalism or politcal stump speeching. But oddballs are not the norm. The "I don't want to get involved" group are more the norm.
This guy was profiled by one of the nutballs. The airline didn't make a huge scene, they pulled the nutball off first (who said she was sick and then announced she thought there was a terrorist). Then, they pulled the guy off just to find out what was going on. When they found out, they apologized to him, put him back on the plane, did NOT put the nutball back on the plane and were on their way. Turns out the guy is Italian (not Middle Eastern). And, don't forget, if the airline did NOTHING and the guy WAS a terrorist, we'd (meaning the American public) would want them shot, hung, tared and feathered and dragged through the mud.
But hey, it makes for great clickbait.....
Finally (and yeah, I'm on a roll, will probably get stuck in a corner of Margie's patio after this), I laugh when anyone brings up profiling. Some complain that profiling is bad but almost in the same breath will complain when "grandma has to get a TSA patdown". You can't have it both ways, people. You either profile people, where anyone with dark skin and black hair will get singled out** or you make it random selection.
I travel a lot and generally loathe the airport delays, but I've never dealt with anything but respect by a TSA agent. It's easy to poke fun. It's easy to dredge up the sensational stories. And, I agree that they could probably do the job better.
But, I guarantee you that if they relaxed any of the things they've implemented and something DOES happen, it'll be a proverbial E36 M3-storm. They're in a no win situation.
Personally, I don't care. If someone wants to wreak havoc, they'll find a way to do it.
To quote Denis Leary, "Life sucks, wear a berkeleying helmet"
-Rob
**That's an extreme example. You could of course widen it to all males, people who pay with cash, people who buy tickets last minute, people from other countries, etc. but whatever you do that's not random is still profiling. AND, the airlines do flag for some of those, too. I went through a stint of about 6 months of always drawing the four XXXX's on my ticket noting I needed a pat down. (Always respectful, always professional). When I stopped being sent out to customer sites last minute, it stopped.
rob_lewis wrote: But, I guarantee you that if they relaxed any of the things they've implemented and something DOES happen, it'll be a proverbial E36 M3-storm. They're in a no win situation.
That's why we need some sort of penalty for overreaction, to balance things out. In this case, all it would have taken would be an intelligent person stopping by and taking a peek at those papers instead of delaying a flight for two hours. The idiot got flown on a different flight and huge costs were incurred by the airline due to all those delayed flights. The whole Boston freakout over some LED signs is another example.
rob_lewis wrote: Personally, I don't care. If someone wants to wreak havoc, they'll find a way to do it.
You make a lot of great points, and I mostly agree. Want to highlight this though, because it is what makes me grumble about the whole thing.
TSA is in a no-win situation (like you said), and yet we still employ them all to do a ton of work and hassle everyone else all while knowing full well they cannot win.
In reply to Robbie:
You assume that they are there trying to make things safer and better for the American people. Maybe that isn't the point at all. Perhaps they have a different objective.
rob_lewis wrote: I agree that it's stupid, but I'm having a difficult few months, so I'm going to play devil's advocate a bit.....
excuse me TSA agent? yeah, there's a brown guy over there. doesn't look 'murican to me. looks like he's writing some chemical formulas for a suitcase nuke. i'm scared"
OK, flame suit on.....
Keith Tanner wrote: That's why we need some sort of penalty for overreaction, to balance things out. In this case, all it would have taken would be an intelligent person stopping by and taking a peek at those papers instead of delaying a flight for two hours. The idiot got flown on a different flight and huge costs were incurred by the airline due to all those delayed flights. The whole Boston freakout over some LED signs is another example.
First of all, the plane turned around because the lady reporting it passed a note saying she was going to be sick and only when she was pulled off the plane did she announce the terrorism angle. So, the delay was not pulling him off the plane, it was pulling her off the plane.
Second, while I understand the idea of "punish overreaction", how do you decide? Sure, it's easy to punish for "That guys wearing a turban, he must be a terrorist" but not as easy for "Guy spoke no english, had a backpack that was ticking and prayed before boarding the plane". Personally, I can't pick out someone as a terrorist, but if I think I'll get fined/jailed, I probably won't say anything. Ever.
patgizz wrote: excuse me TSA agent? yeah, there's a brown guy over there. doesn't look 'murican to me. looks like he's writing some chemical formulas for a suitcase nuke. i'm scared"
While you may be kidding, I'm willing to bet there are LOTS of reports like that nothing ever happens from it. But of course, we don't hear about those. Just like a car forum. Nobody posts on a forum, "Just wanted to state my car has been working flawlessly for 6 months." Only the "OMG my (insert car make/model here) is a lemon!! "
Robbie wrote:rob_lewis wrote: Personally, I don't care. If someone wants to wreak havoc, they'll find a way to do it.You make a lot of great points, and I mostly agree. Want to highlight this though, because it is what makes me grumble about the whole thing. TSA is in a no-win situation (like you said), and yet we still employ them all to do a ton of work and hassle everyone else all while knowing full well they cannot win.
So, if TSA is broken (and I neither agree nor disagree that it is) the question is simple:
"What do we do to prevent things like 9/11, the shoe bomber, etc. from happening?"
Shut down the TSA, shutdown Homeland Security and deal with the issues as they arrive and taking the risk by using any mass transportation is a perfectly fine response. I kinda take that view with my Denis Leary statement.....
On it's own, the TSA is a good idea. But just like anything run by any government (and thereby, the unwashed masses), it becomes much less than (or more) what was intended.
-Rob
rob_lewis wrote: Finally (and yeah, I'm on a roll, will probably get stuck in a corner of Margie's patio after this), I laugh when anyone brings up profiling. Some complain that profiling is bad but almost in the same breath will complain when "grandma has to get a TSA patdown". You can't have it both ways, people. You either profile people, where anyone with dark skin and black hair will get singled out** or you make it random selection.
Big +1 for this. Complain about profiling OR complain that grandmas in wheelchairs go under the microscope sometimes, but not both, because it's one or the other.
I've made my choice and I'm very comfortable with it, anyone who hasn't should choose now.
And I want to thank this board. Work's been "less than pleasant" the past couple of months. I'm on the verge of going off on people and getting fired at the moment. Or, just walking out. (Can't afford to do either). While it's a totally different subject, my venting and not being overly judged here is doing wonders for my attitude and allowing me to stay calm at work.
-Rob
What if the next terrorist plot is to coordinate plants to "say something" at busy airports nation wide, bringing travel to a halt for an extended period. Chaos will ensue as dozens of flights are delayed, re-routed or cancelled. In essence, the accusation of terrorism can be an effective terrorist weapon. People would be terrorized, the economic impact will be real. Does someone need to die for it to be terrorism?
In reply to rob_lewis:
As far as a 9/11 repeat, I doubt it. The ace of spades has been played. Hi-jacking an airplane is essentially an un-playable card. I know if anyone tries to hijack a plane I happen to be on, I'll go down fighting.
Now the shoe-bomber is a different story, but if somebody wants to blow up a plane, they'll find a way.
WilD wrote: What if the next terrorist plot is to coordinate plants to "say something" at busy airports nation wide, bringing travel to a halt for an extended period. Chaos will ensue as dozens of flights are delayed, re-routed or cancelled. In essence, the accusation of terrorism can be an effective terrorist weapon. People would be terrorized, the economic impact will be real. Does someone need to die for it to be terrorism?
Do you ever hear announcements like “we’re going to have a fire drill from 12:00 to 12:05”.
I always think about what would happen if an actual fire broke out at 12:00; we’d be totally hosed.
rob_lewis wrote: OK, flame suit on.....Keith Tanner wrote: That's why we need some sort of penalty for overreaction, to balance things out. In this case, all it would have taken would be an intelligent person stopping by and taking a peek at those papers instead of delaying a flight for two hours. The idiot got flown on a different flight and huge costs were incurred by the airline due to all those delayed flights. The whole Boston freakout over some LED signs is another example.First of all, the plane turned around because the lady reporting it passed a note saying she was going to be sick and only when she was pulled off the plane did she announce the terrorism angle. So, the delay was not pulling him off the plane, it was pulling her off the plane. Second, while I understand the idea of "punish overreaction", how do you decide? Sure, it's easy to punish for "That guys wearing a turban, he must be a terrorist" but not as easy for "Guy spoke no english, had a backpack that was ticking and prayed before boarding the plane". Personally, I can't pick out someone as a terrorist, but if I think I'll get fined/jailed, I probably won't say anything. Ever.
I didn't see a blow-by-blow account of who caused what to turn around, other than she pretended to be sick. But in this case, it's pretty easy. She faked an illness and caused probably tens of thousands of dollars of damage due to ignorance. So yeah, with great power comes great responsibility. Hold her accountable. There were other ways she could have handled that, such as bringing her concerns to the attention of the crew directly.
I used to work as a flight attendant. For those who don't know, flight attendants are actually safety equipment, responsible for getting your panicked ass off a smoke-filled plane in less than 90 seconds with half the exits available. I used to run through the drills in my head as we took off, usually with my eyes closed. I'll bet people thought I was praying. Would that be enough to have an idiot freak out today? Probably.
Also, because of that training, I've got a pretty good idea of just how many potential weapons there are on an airliner. I don't need to smuggle something past the TSA. Thanks to 911, I'm pretty sure that any attempted takeover of an aircraft would end badly for the hostiles - like the third plane that day. So the only way to effectively terrorize with an aircraft is to do it from the cockpit (hello, Germanwings) or to blow it out of the sky. Shoes, pocket knives, math - all that stuff is not a concern. Spend your time sniffing for explosives instead, then you'll only piss off the drag racers and farmers 
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