Where's that deeply personal information thread?...
Hypothetically, what would you say to someone who has flat out said, "I'm tired of hiding this. This is the way that I want to live."?
He knows that he is risking his health, his family and everything that he owns. This has been going on for over 20 years. I love him, but I might be ready to write him off.
12 steps starts with self admitting that "it" is a problem.
Your person seems to be saying, "it is okay."
He's not there yet.
If he is cannot change his behaviour how will you?It is his life to squander, act accordingly. Tough road to travel woody 
Is this a British car thing? I mean, it's a little odd, of course, but this isn't the dark ages man. If you can't be supportive you can atleast admit that it's your own bigotry and not his penchant for limey engineering that really has to change. There are people living almost normal lives with several non-running LBCs stashed on their property away from the eyes of the world. They shouldn't have to hide anymore. They should be able to push them out into the sunshine and sit by them.
In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:
Oddly enough, he has owned multiple British cars, but alas, that is the least of his problems.
In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:
Also, thank you for making me smile.
Don't know. I often wondered if it would be better to acknowledge a problem and live with it than repeatedly deny it. I've dealt with a denier for long enough that I'd be willing to try it.
Best of luck.
JohnRW1621 wrote: 12 steps starts with self admitting that "it" is a problem. Your person seems to be saying, "it is okay." He's not there yet.
It's been a long time and he's a lot older than I am.
Woody wrote: I love him, but I might be ready to write him off.
That sounds like a little bit of a contradiction.
You can't write him off if you love him.
You don't have to like what he is doing.
In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:
WTF man? Are you looking into my garage? Yard? BIL's field? Behind the trees at MIL's? In long-suffering friend's garage?
It's only a problem if don't have any money or room for another one and don't have any friends or family left who don't know how many other piles of leyland you have stashed, needing time/money. (that you don't have)
Sorry I'm no help to the erstwhile Woods-man, I have some family that don't care who they hurt while hurting themselves, and to whom the prospect of ruins appear worth the high.
if it's not a problem for him, then why is it a problem for you? some people just want to push everyone away from them, so let him. if he wakes up and sees that it's a problem, then he will change. but it also might not actually be a problem, either.
And I'm the complete opposite. Actions speak louder than words, I have no interest in being "friends" with a person like that.
I also don't believe blood is thicker than water though. Why keep somebody in your life if they aren't a positive influence on it? Life is much too short to live like that, people will do what they want
I had members of my nuclear family who, starting when I was quite young, let themselves become addicted to substances beyond anything that would ever be made legal.
I didn't write them off for it, I just let them know their choice to do what they did put us in different categories; column A and column B. So there was a definite rift.
It was only later, after I had grown up and moved out, that an unrelated incident occured that caused me to turn my back on them indefinitely. But that decision was just the next step after the rift. In other words, it was only a matter of time before their extreme behavior led to me turning the page on them. In my opinion, if you care enough about them that their self destruction deeply affects you, you should create some distance.
My $.02. Hopefully not too deep and personal. :)
I assume you feel a need, nearly an obligation to help. It's tough not to.
It's been almost two years since I suddenly lost my dad to alcoholism. He knew what he was and he'd have periods where he'd be under control but his demons always came back. I don't blame the booze though, "it" isn't the problem (contrary to what the 12 steppers may say). "It" is an inanimate object, without any power to do anything. We are the sentient beings who make choices, good choices and bad choices, life is full of them.
I wish I had my dad back, he was a really great guy but he made his choices and now the rest of us have to live with the consequences.
If your loved one can see that then maybe there is a chance, if they can't then all the shouting and interventions in the world won't help until they realize the reality of their actions.
Life is full of choices, until it isn't.
There's unfortunately a few things at play here. Its cleat that whom ever this is, hypothetically of course, is totally OK with it. That means while its an addiction, its sort of....not. I mean, they can't necessarily stop, but they don't want to. Its like me and corollas. I'd call it an addiction, but I don't want to stop hoarding them. its fun, and its not LBCs. In essence they're OK with their personal demons. Most humans, (even the imaginary ones) are smart enough to know things like, crack is wack, yo. Whether or not they want help is another thing entirely. Case in point, my father. Total raging alcoholic, drugs, you name it. Probably well aware of it. Most functional abuser on the face of the earth.
That's not to say its not without its caveats though. He's dead because of his vices. Turns out in face vs. Car, car wins. Specially when face has been launched from motorbike. Many people tried to save him, as it were. His close woman friend even left him over his addiction. He was dead less than a year later. However, I don't believe that anything she or anything else anyone could have done would have changed the outcome. Why?
No matter what your say, threats, cajoling, handjobs, etc- no one is truly going to get help and attempt change unless they want to. Datsuns brother is an excellent example. He likes being loaded. He knows its going to kill him. He's accepted the consequences of his actions, and still chooses to live that life. Now, most aren't as...jovial about it. Many have enough personal demons that the thought of sobriety far outweighs the possibility of death. Never been an addict, but I can understand. Escapism is a powerful drug. And gin is cheap.
Now, as far as what you can say. You've first got to make your own bones with this. I'm of the mind that you can still love a person while not being able to stand being around them. Just look at my wife some days. However, totally writing them off? I don't think that's realistic. So, what I would do is- sit down and truly weigh out the thought of distancing this person out vs. Seeing them in what amounts to self destruct mode. Datsuns case is an interesting example. Total raging alcoholic, super fun to be with. My dad was the same way- but he also his his problem very well. Can you live with the knowledge that they're doing this and that they're OK with it? Its a tough sell, but love is a powerful thing. If you can't, well- peace out girl scout. If you can-
Something like "look. I know you like to get all helped up on goofballs.it hurts me to watch this. (Maybe explain why) but- I care. So, I am still here. If you ever decide you wanna not be hepped up on goofballs, let me know, I will help you. In the meantime, businesses as usual" or along those lines. Let them know you have an difficult time with it, but you still care enough to be there. You.never know, that could be The tipping point. Dealing with negative life issues via substance abuse is common, especially abandonment. If you stick- it might give the person a bit of hope.
I agree 100% with everything stated, but I'll add one more comment: If they make the decision to seek help, it likely will be triggered by a specific event, or culmination of events. However, there's almost as likely a chance these same events could drive them deeper. In our attempts to help those we care about it's very tempting to point out these events to them, hoping to "wake them up". It rarely works out the way you hope it will.
Also, keep in mind the reasons why someone usually develops an addiction in the first place:
1.) To overcome depression.
2.) Because they lack the coping mechanisms for dealing with life's day-to-day struggles.
3.) Boredom/searching for excitement.
SVreX wrote:Woody wrote: I love him, but I might be ready to write him off.That sounds like a little bit of a contradiction. You can't write him off if you love him. You don't have to like what he is doing.
i disagree with you here. i had this big long thing about a heroin addicted family member, but deeply personal blah blah blah you guys don't need to know. I feel you can still love someone but for your own personal good must have nothing to do with them, at least unless they identify that they have a problem and do what they can to fix it.
Datsun1500 wrote: In reply to HiTempguy: , but he's happy.
There is more to life than happiness. Again, the kind of person that I associate with/want to associate with is not like that. Then again, like you said, if he only comes around once in a while and doesn't misbehave, who knows.
Its just not the sort of influence I want in my life/around others. It's sort of like saying, "well, hitler was a nice guy and he had friends". I'm super over-exaggerating to make my point crystal clear; how you act towards one single person does not define you as a human being.
This being GRM, 95% of the people should automaticLly dislike him for being a non-working bum lol 
Is it hurting you? Is it hurting someone you care about (aside from the person making the choice)?
You don't need to save the guy. You just need to take care of yourself and any people who rely on you.
I told my oldest son that he was an alcoholic , he argued, I pointed out several instances.
Unfortunately, he didn't listen.
Choices, yin or yang they are yours. One person holds the throttle of the locomotive,everyone else is in the train wreck.
There are times when you simply must remove yourself from a toxic situation because it could drag you down with it. I had a very good friend who's dead now, back when we ran together we shared a common love for Brit cars and women. 
What we didn't share was his love for cocaine. Because of that his life was full of close brushes with the law etc, I put up with it as long as I could but I finally had to tell him 'dude, sorry but that nose candy thing is going to take me down with you. We can't hang any more.' Of course I was a judgmental bastard etc. and since I really did like him a lot other than the toot it hurt pretty damn bad. Unfortunately I was proven right shortly thereafter, he got busted for possession with intent to distribute, spent some time in the slammer. When he got out, he stayed straight for a while, then right back to the same routine. 
It also wasn't just me, his more or less steady girlfriend cleared out too. I saw her a couple of years ago, she said yeah it was for the same reason.
I still to this day regret not being around to possibly help him at the end; who knows? maybe I could have made a difference and he'd still be here. But at the time it was becoming more and more a matter of self preservation.
We are dealing with some issues with an in-law - she is burning a trail through the family.
Tough love is the answer with our situation.
Beer Baron wrote: Is it hurting you? Is it hurting someone you care about?
This is my big one. My dad is ok with his periodic addictions. They're how he deals with his mental illness. That's fine, and I'm ok with it. The problem is that he insists on being married to my mom and dragging her through hell every time. We've pretty much stopped speaking because of it. I don't hang out with people in abusive relationships, whether they're my parents or not.
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