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ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
4/7/21 2:45 p.m.
dean1484 said:

Everyone ready for tonight?  

I acquired more beer, so yes.

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
4/7/21 4:15 p.m.

Good to go.   Not running the RX3 this time.  I definitely want to go with something with the engine in the proper place.

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/7/21 11:51 p.m.

That was great fun. Who knew you can have a close race between a 427 Fairlane and an old Mini.  

02Pilot
02Pilot UltraDork
4/8/21 8:53 a.m.

Sorry I had to bail before the David vs. Goliath session. Sounds like a good premise for a longer race next week (says the Mini aficionado...).

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
4/8/21 9:21 a.m.

The mini has quite the learning curve compared to all of the other cars, but its capable of quick times.  The mini vs. escort and mini vs. fairlENE race was pretty close.  It is hard to execute a pass in the mini though.  It took a miracle for me to squeeze past Dean in one corner, then he just walked right by me on the straight again laugh

 

Here is a pic from the latter:

 

Pamplona: running of the bulls leaves 3 gored on first day in 2019 - CNN

02Pilot
02Pilot UltraDork
4/8/21 9:41 a.m.

What was the tire wear like in the Fairlane? In my experience, the Mini doesn't wear at all. If the Ford burns its tire up, could be advantage: Mini in a longer session.

02Pilot
02Pilot UltraDork
4/8/21 12:53 p.m.

Mulling over some ideas that might be useful in balancing competition if we should decide to run a series. These are just preliminary thoughts, probably flawed in several ways, so I'm happy to hear any and all criticisms.

Basically, I think the best way to make competition close is by adding weight (not exactly original, I know) to the fastest cars. The question is what formula to use and how to implement it. I'm thinking this should be as simple as possible. This is an outline of what I'm thinking about for a theoretical field of eight (but adaptable beyond that); the numbers given have not been tested and are just placeholders for the example:

*All cars begin the series with +50kg. This is to render balancing adjustments as quickly as possible.

Result - Weight Adjustment

1st            +30kg

2nd          +20kg

3rd           +10kg

4th            None

5th            None

6th            -10kg

7th            -20kg

8th            -30kg

This would slow the fastest cars, speed up the slowest, and keep the middle of the pack steady. As long as we get results from each race, the numbers can be kept up to date in a simple spreadsheet. Obviously, no car could be adjusted to lower than its basic curb weight, so there's a bottom limit, but that shouldn't be an issue.

Again, this is just something that was floating around in my head, and I figured I'd throw it out here for feedback. Feel free to tell me to shut up and go back to the back of the field where I belong.

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/8/21 3:28 p.m.
02Pilot said:

Mulling over some ideas that might be useful in balancing competition if we should decide to run a series. These are just preliminary thoughts, probably flawed in several ways, so I'm happy to hear any and all criticisms.

Basically, I think the best way to make competition close is by adding weight (not exactly original, I know) to the fastest cars. The question is what formula to use and how to implement it. I'm thinking this should be as simple as possible. This is an outline of what I'm thinking about for a theoretical field of eight (but adaptable beyond that); the numbers given have not been tested and are just placeholders for the example:

*All cars begin the series with +50kg. This is to render balancing adjustments as quickly as possible.

Result - Weight Adjustment

1st            +30kg

2nd          +20kg

3rd           +10kg

4th            None

5th            None

6th            -10kg

7th            -20kg

8th            -30kg

This would slow the fastest cars, speed up the slowest, and keep the middle of the pack steady. As long as we get results from each race, the numbers can be kept up to date in a simple spreadsheet. Obviously, no car could be adjusted to lower than its basic curb weight, so there's a bottom limit, but that shouldn't be an issue.

Again, this is just something that was floating around in my head, and I figured I'd throw it out here for feedback. Feel free to tell me to shut up and go back to the back of the field where I belong.

We have done something similar to this in Grand Torismo 6 I think.  Air can probibly remember better than I as he was keeping track of it all in a spreadsheet that from what I heard grew a lief of its own after a while.  It does work but you ahve to test to get a feel for just how weight works with different cars.  But in short yes this is a proven way to help slow down those at the front of the field.  It would take a couple races for it to really start to even the field. 

I had another idea and that was to assign weigh by how you qualify.  Yes you can sandbag but points can also be given for qualifying as well as your race finish.  That way the people that qualify well get the weight for the race and again the field gets evened out.

Part of my doing many short sprint races is to keep the racing tight.  I have found that most races are kind of determined after 2-3 laps in a 6-10 lap race (provided there are no offs).

We should test this next week.  Maybe we all use the Mini and we run some tests to see how it works.  Assign weight by your qualifying position that you have to add to the car before you get into the race.   It will not be enforceable but I don't really care about that.   

   

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/8/21 3:32 p.m.
ProDarwin said:

The mini vs. escort and mini vs. fairlENE . .. .    

It is ANE not ENE (I actually Googled it when I posted as I was not sure)

 

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
4/8/21 3:52 p.m.

One minor issue with the weight HCing is that 50kg to a mini is a lot different than 50 to a Fairlane.  A percentage HC would probably be more fair (and can probably be built into the spreadsheet).

The only issue we had with it in GT is that there was a bit of a tipping point in HC where a car went from competitive to uncompetitive very quickly.  That may not be an issue with AC.

Anyone an Excel expert here?  The spreadsheet I have was not made by me and has some pretty sophisticated scripting in it (I can figure out most of it).  We probably won't need any major adjustments, but just in case.

As I remember, the most difficult part was that we were allowing dropping of one or two results in the series in case you could not make a race or were taken out etc.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
4/8/21 4:25 p.m.
aircooled said:

Anyone an Excel expert here?  

I'm pretty good at it.  VB doesn't scare me too much.

Looking at the suggested adjustments, one shouldn't even need to touch VB though.  Stock excel is plenty powerful for something like this.

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/9/21 11:27 a.m.

Anyone get any good photos form the replays from this week?  There was one race where Pro and I were really close for all but the last lap. 

There was another where I think we all made it as a pack at least one full lap?

There there was a couple "interesting" events in the first set of esses that I know I was a pinball.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
4/9/21 11:52 a.m.

I got one, I'll upload later.  My replay thing keeps jamming up and my mouse cursor disappears so I cant stop it or take pictures.  Not sure WTF is going on.

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
4/9/21 1:43 p.m.

I think I have all the replays, I have not had time to look at them much.  Here are a few shots from one of the most epic races ever.  Of note, Dean WAS being caught by the Mini in the last lap, but the Mini droped back after rear ending the Fairlane.  We need to do more of these races and get 02Pilot into the mix.  Not sure how this will work at Limerock though, it seems like the Fairlane might have a bigger advantage there (especially in the last few corners the the front straight).

02Pilot
02Pilot UltraDork
4/10/21 9:35 a.m.

Sorry I missed out on that. Hopefully we can recreate it next week. I'll try to do a little testing at LRP and see how things work.

EDIT: I had a little time this morning, so I did a couple sessions at LRP, one in the Mini and one in the Fairlane. I was over a second per lap faster in the Mini, but I also have more seat time in that car by a long shot. Extremely different cars obviously, but they're faster in different places and the times seem close enough to at least give it a shot. This was on the version of the track without the chicane (I hate that stupid chicane); with it I suspect the Mini would have a larger advantage.

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
4/10/21 11:46 a.m.

Hmmm... sounds like a challenge.  

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/10/21 6:30 p.m.

Air

i think I successfully made a folder and put some cars in it on the google drive.

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/10/21 6:47 p.m.

I found a FB RX7 that drives right but the HP of the car is way to much. 

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
4/10/21 7:10 p.m.

I can see and access the folder, can anyone else?

Which FB are you interested in (there are a bunch in there).  What do you want the HP to be?  I can easily adjust it.  Do you want a stock turbo? A torque curve is helpful.  Copying from another car is easy also.

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
4/10/21 8:09 p.m.

Here is a quick duel between O2Pilot and me (I ran out of gas at the end:

 

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
4/10/21 8:51 p.m.

Another duel.  Note Dean pretending to slide around to make it difficult for Darwin to pass:

 

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
4/10/21 9:36 p.m.

What's the Mini doing... experiancing brake oversteer apparently:

A110 doing A110 things:

This was clearly our closest race:

 

This one went bad in the first corner:

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/10/21 10:35 p.m.

There should only one FB. There is a bunch of FC RX7s I am still playing with them. A stock FB is about 110-125 hp I think. The stock early FC is around 150 a later one from 88 and up I think had 168 or so. and a turbo was about 210. 

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
4/10/21 10:35 p.m.

Haha I was trying to remember how the 2002 battle ended, forgot I stuffed it hard laugh

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
4/11/21 9:47 p.m.

OK Dean, the modified FB is up there in your folder ( Mazda RX-7 FB 1985 Mod v1 ).  The base car still has a super turbo engine in it and the other version is still there, but I added a Stock sub-version and a GSL-SE sub-version.  I removed the turbo from both and adjusted the torque/hp to stock numbers.  I removed the adjustable diff from the stock car also, but did leave the adjustable sway bars in.  There is also a, uhm, "special" livery in the two new mods.  The cars till have ABS (which I can remove if you like) and a sunroof (which I cannot remove).

It seems good.  The stock version seems too fast, but it's clearly slower than the others, so I am not sure if it's perfect.  I did figure out how to fix the torque curves shown in CM (it's the little menu next to it), so those should be correct.

Probably best to delete the FB you have installed now, then re-install this.  It will probably just overwrite the old one, but I am not sure.  Let me know if it works, and if anyone else want to try it, see if you can get into Deans folder.

Anyone know if the GSL-SE came with a 3.909 diff or a 4.11?  The model is set for 3.909 (same as all other FB's)

The original file also has some useful skin tools in it (I removed them for the one I put up because they add a lot of size).  It's a rar file in the Templates made by Naboui folder.  There is a Photoshop file in there, but you will also need the .dds file converter plug in I put in the resources folder (as I remember, the only way to make it install is to open it in PS from the PS plug in folder).

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