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BradLTL
BradLTL UltraDork
9/15/21 1:31 p.m.

Saw this, sharing...

Junghole
Junghole SuperDork
9/15/21 2:57 p.m.

Question: are you guys racing tonight? Is the GRM_TEST server running?

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
9/15/21 2:59 p.m.

yes, and probably (cant check right now from my work computer)

Are you on the discord?

Junghole
Junghole SuperDork
9/15/21 3:27 p.m.

In reply to ProDarwin :
yes. This is mr. miyagi

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/15/21 6:58 p.m.

In reply to BradLTL :

Hay Brad. No matter how much grief I gave you in PC2 you do know that we would love to have you join us. 
 

Oh and BTW. How is Argo?  I have not seen him around GRM in a long time.  

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
9/15/21 7:51 p.m.

I put up some potential cars.  They seem pretty good.  The CIVIC seems great, the FTO and Subaru are a bit understeery but good.  The NSX likes to slide and may need a tire update (they get hot really fast).

e30Matt
e30Matt Dork
9/15/21 10:40 p.m.

Air, here is the link to the E36 pack.  The modified cars need brakes and gear adjustments/options, the stock cars need tire options.  Also with the braking, it feels like the cars don't pitch downward under braking, making modulation extremely difficult.  I'm not sure if the brake adjustments will solve that but it's an issue.   To be realistic the power should be dropped in the US Spec stock car but may not be necessary.   Thanks!

https://mega.nz/file/wA0w0BLJ#Y-RjYncb0CGEwgWvFll1VlFF607XPNxNvT5KhL3An9E

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
9/17/21 12:40 p.m.

I updated the NSX and reloaded it to the folder.  Interestingly it had the exact same braking torque as the other NSX's we drove.  The difference was the stock brake distribution.  It had something like 75 front, while the others where 60, so I changed this one to 60.  I have not done a test drive yet, so I don't know if it is twitchy (the others weren't).

So, if someone want to try it out, let me know.  I am also curious if just installing it as is, if it will overwrite what you have installed now.  I did change the description (under the pic in CM it should now show "-Brake Balance Update" after the name when you look at the car stats in Content), so you can use that to see if it updated it (CM should tell you when you install?)

The Subi is not setup to allow custom liveries, so no color changes there.  It's encrypted to no way to try and make changes in CM

Regarding the BMW's and tires:  In messing with the BMW's and trying to get the modified tires into the stock models I realized that grip in tires seems to be entirely based on the name "type" of tire.  So Super Soft, Street, 90's street etc all seem to have predefined grip.  There are many other aspects that can be minutely adjusted of course (heat, size, deflection, wear etc) 

If we wanted to HC by tires (this just came to me!), I could define the heat / grip curve (or wear grip curve) to not go up to 100.  That would allow for very precise changes if needed.  I will look into it.

The stock BMW came with 16's?, there appears that no other car in AC uses 16's.  I am figuring out how to add tire options in CM (seems to be inconsistent) but I think I can either copy them from the mod cars (different rim size) or possibly generate some (still not exactly sure what it is doing, but it seems sophisticated!)

I will see if I can setup a car with a number of tire options that are the same tire but different grip levels.  I am not sure if they can be forced from the server though.  It may only restrict by type?

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
9/17/21 1:48 p.m.

I'll do some testing on the NSX.  I feel like it must have been more than poor brake bias.  ABS intrusion too great possibly?

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/18/21 7:35 p.m.

So we need to plan for next week. Another test of various cars?  Or do you all want a dry run of a race night?  
 

I wish I could set up two races with un even lengths. Say a ten minute sprint followed by a 20 min race with reverse grid. Maybe the other server software would let me do that?  For now a 10 min qualifier and two 15 min races with the second being reverse grid.  
 

Do you want me to pick cars (I liked the last car we were playing with last week). Or?  

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/18/21 7:35 p.m.

Oh. What do you all think about fixed setups?  

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
9/18/21 8:53 p.m.

OK, I have something that needs testing:  I added another NSX version in the folder, this one is called:  honda_nsx_na1_BB_TrHC (the name is changed again in the CM description)

This has the Brake Balance adjustment AND three sets of tires.  The 95 and 90 tire options have 95% and 90% grip.  These are relatively easy to create (on the NSX at least, I need to try the other cars).  They need to be tested (by someone who can put down consistent laps) to see how MUCH of a HC they create.  It is literally 90 and 95 percent lap times?

This could be a reasonable handicapping option, I just need to know what increments to make. I am not sure if there is a limit to the number of tires that a car can have, but fewer will be a bit easier.

Dean will probably also want to test if he can force a tire option.  Voluntary compliance is certainly not an issue either way.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
9/18/21 10:01 p.m.
dean1484 said:

Oh. What do you all think about fixed setups?  

I like fixed setups.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
9/18/21 10:04 p.m.
aircooled said:

OK, I have something that needs testing:  I added another NSX version in the folder, this one is called:  honda_nsx_na1_BB_TrHC (the name is changed again in the CM description)

This has the Brake Balance adjustment AND three sets of tires.  The 95 and 90 tire options have 95% and 90% grip.  These are relatively easy to create (on the NSX at least, I need to try the other cars).  They need to be tested (by someone who can put down consistent laps) to see how MUCH of a HC they create.  It is literally 90 and 95 percent lap times?

This could be a reasonable handicapping option, I just need to know what increments to make. I am not sure if there is a limit to the number of tires that a car can have, but fewer will be a bit easier.

Dean will probably also want to test if he can force a tire option.  Voluntary compliance is certainly not an issue either way.

I mentioned in discord... I edited an NSX and put it in there as well:

Honda-NSX-NA2_GRM_WED.zip

I bumped brake torque to 3600 (and even then it doesn't lock the brakes in a straight line), as well as enabled the bias & power adjustment from the pits.

Its got a diff and slicks unlike the NA1, so a bit more speed.  But it definitely far from racecar status.  Feels like a well sorted track car.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
9/18/21 10:08 p.m.

Also, Air your first NSX edit was a bit wonky:

 

And yes, it really did have the redbull car in it, not an NSX

e30Matt
e30Matt Dork
9/18/21 10:55 p.m.
aircooled said:

I updated the NSX and reloaded it to the folder.  Interestingly it had the exact same braking torque as the other NSX's we drove.  The difference was the stock brake distribution.  It had something like 75 front, while the others where 60, so I changed this one to 60.  I have not done a test drive yet, so I don't know if it is twitchy (the others weren't).

So, if someone want to try it out, let me know.  I am also curious if just installing it as is, if it will overwrite what you have installed now.  I did change the description (under the pic in CM it should now show "-Brake Balance Update" after the name when you look at the car stats in Content), so you can use that to see if it updated it (CM should tell you when you install?)

The Subi is not setup to allow custom liveries, so no color changes there.  It's encrypted to no way to try and make changes in CM

Regarding the BMW's and tires:  In messing with the BMW's and trying to get the modified tires into the stock models I realized that grip in tires seems to be entirely based on the name "type" of tire.  So Super Soft, Street, 90's street etc all seem to have predefined grip.  There are many other aspects that can be minutely adjusted of course (heat, size, deflection, wear etc) 

If we wanted to HC by tires (this just came to me!), I could define the heat / grip curve (or wear grip curve) to not go up to 100.  That would allow for very precise changes if needed.  I will look into it.

The stock BMW came with 16's?, there appears that no other car in AC uses 16's.  I am figuring out how to add tire options in CM (seems to be inconsistent) but I think I can either copy them from the mod cars (different rim size) or possibly generate some (still not exactly sure what it is doing, but it seems sophisticated!)

I will see if I can setup a car with a number of tire options that are the same tire but different grip levels.  I am not sure if they can be forced from the server though.  It may only restrict by type?

Given that the E36 M3 only came with 17's and the non-M E36's only came with 15's, if it was modeled with 16's that would be odd. I would also guess that 15's and 17's are way more common in the models.  

The other stuff is really cool though, it'd be interesting to test out.

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
9/19/21 8:47 a.m.
ProDarwin said:

Also, Air your first NSX edit was a bit wonky:

 

And yes, it really did have the redbull car in it, not an NSX

OK, that is weird.  I think I may have renamed the wrong file!  The newer one up there should be an NSX though (hopefully).

The Redbull though is....  interesting, in a psychotic way, just like in GT.

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/19/21 10:20 a.m.

I will try and hop on tonight.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
9/19/21 11:07 p.m.

Tire testing.  ignore the first in each as that is the out lap.

Oddly, Dean was slower on the fast tires and faster on the slow tires - less impact from the reduced grip.

 

100% grip tires:

95%:

90%

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/19/21 11:40 p.m.

Pro and I dialed in a NSX that is a combo of what Air made and what Pro made. Basically took the power amounts and the power curve and the brakes from Pros car and put them in Airs car.   I think Pro has some minor tweaks to the car and then will post up the "race" version.  
 

I am on the fence about tuning versus fixed setup as the NSX responds really well to tuning and it was interesting that he and I ended up with very similar cars but through different tunes.  I will gladly share mine come Wednesday. 
 

The current setup on the server will be how we race. Some changes include:

You are only allowed  3 tires off in Qualifying. Put 4 off and the lap is voided. In the race you can go 4 off with out a penalty.  Tire ware and fuel are set to 100 so you will need to be aware of that. I am thinking of unlocking the cars at the start but it means that if you jump the start you will either get teleported to the pits and serve a 30 second penalty and start the race from the pits or I can set it so you have to do a drive through the pits penalty. Basically it means your race for a win is almost certainly over.  

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/19/21 11:48 p.m.

I am also thinking of putting the race date after the server name so I can preset the whole series ahead of time.  Since the IP address of the server is what AC actually remembers it will not make the server disappear. 
 

I also may change the server name to GRM_RACE_TEST_20210922 for this week and potentially get rid off the TEST all together when the series startes for real.  Or we can change the name all together if anyone has any ideas. 

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/20/21 12:05 a.m.

As for the HC for the series AIR are you going to take care of tracking that?  I don't remember what the HC was previously and how it was applied versus how you lost the HC. 
 

It looks like the Tires will work as a HC. We could also look at added weight. We should test this as well to see how adding weight changes lap times.   Maybe a combo of the two?  If Sauce keeps winning with the full tire HC we start adding weight?  
 

Re the tires I think we should have six tires in two percent increments. 
 

With this 1st place gets a two tire hit for the next race and second gets a one tire hit. If you finish out of the top three you get one tire increase back?  
 

Not sure if this would work.  Another think we could do is somehow apply the tire HC to the second race or something.  
 

Oh the reminds me that the race format will be practice will be up to about 9:00 EST. Then a 10 min Qualifying and then two 15 min races with the second having a reversed grid.  One thing we need to look at is the time between tge two races to possible hit the head or to refill a beverage.  We can always advance the session if we want if everyone is ready faster than the set time between sessions.  Again input on this is welcome.  

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
9/21/21 5:48 p.m.

I can handle the score record keeping.  We could use the method as described above. That is what we did in GT. In GT the PP reduction hit a tipping point where it became oppressive, but it looks like the tire performance may be more linear.

I was trying to think of something that took into account the spread of points, but I have not worked that out yet.

So, do you want me to setup some tires that are 2% apart?  I am guessing I should mod the "GRM2" file in the folder? I don't know at this point how many tires you can have, but I don't see any reason why there would be a limit.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
9/21/21 6:05 p.m.

Which file is the tire info contained in?

 

Edit:  yes mod the GRM2 tune for the NA1 NSX.  I was going to save it out as a separate car  because the sub-tune nonsense makes compatibility more difficult.

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
9/21/21 8:01 p.m.

The tire data is in the tyres.ini file, the wear files (which I modify) are in the various __cm_tyre_wearcurve_front_0.lut files ("0" changing for each).

The trick is adding (duplicate) tires.  So far, the only way it works for me is to create a new tire option with the Create New Tires function (under Replace Tyres) which I am still not entirely sure what it is doing.  In some cases it will not create useable tires.

Adding more tires to the tyres.ini file does not seem to work for some reason, but they will show up in the file if you add them in CM.  There is a strange disconnect there.

If you want to play with figuring it out a bit better, please do.

I put a GRM3 version up with 100%, 98%, 96%, 94% tires.

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