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Advan046
Advan046 SuperDork
4/30/15 6:41 a.m.

I was going to join the lobby just to record the replays to watch later. It didn't work out. But I was really curious if the Bugs would stay in a tight pack or not. The Vettes I assumed would string out by halfway given the potential impact of mistakes.

Any good races?

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
4/30/15 7:34 a.m.

Bugs I screwed the pooch on the start of the first one. Some and and I both went for the hole as we both got a good start and I just blipped the nos and looped it. Not sure there was really any contact actually.

The 2nd bug race thigns are tight through the first section of the track but then things got strung. I assume there were some good races some place on the track.

Vette races for me were a let down. The HC was a killer on the straits. With suck a large track if I did not have a draft on the straits I was done for. I did find that short shifting and trying to use more of the torque seemed to help a little. I also turned my wheel up to 200 deg lock to lock on the 2nd race and that was fun. You can save things much easier however the down side is things are much more twitchy but I got use to it before the first bridge.

All in all a decent night for me. Mudd bailed shortly after the end of the 2nd vet race after getting 2nd. Not sure why. There was some contact with Sauce at the end of the lap that sauce and I discussed after the race and I am going to go back and look at the replay.

All I can say is I am glad we are done with:

  • Bugs

  • Vetts

  • That dang track!!!!

It was a fun experiment and I am not sure what we learned from it but it is time to move on to something a bit more "normal".

I am going to see about trying to pick two relatively driver friendly and cost friendly cars for Sunday. I want to keep the PP under 500 for both. However I would like some type of diversity between the two.

I tested two cars last night that I really liked.

One was an MG of some sort that was RWD that was great fun. Good stock gearing and decent neutral handling. The 2nd one that I liked the handling even better was the 90 FC rx7. IT felt a little slow but had really great rotation on turn in and mid corner. Both as SSS cars I think would be just ok as they really are down on power in stock form. They would be much better as a limited tuner car (similar to the Muscle Car rule set) would be lots of fun.

Anyway great season and I am looking forward to next season.

Now we need to come up with some things to test.

Spoolpigeon
Spoolpigeon UberDork
4/30/15 8:12 a.m.

I thoroughly enjoyed the bugs there. The vettes were chaotic. I made tons of errors just trying to keep the dang thing pointed straight.

The track is pretty fun. If we use it again it probably needs to be in something less crazy than the vettes.

Advan046
Advan046 SuperDork
4/30/15 8:39 a.m.

I think that we learned a few things about the tracks:

  • Midfield is good and we should use it often.
  • Always love Spa even with 2 minute lap times.
  • Matterhorn wasn't that bad. Like Rome it can be a fun place to race despite the risks.
  • Apricot Hill reverse was just as fun as forward.
  • Monza 80's was actually rather good racing. I was surprised.
e30Matt
e30Matt HalfDork
4/30/15 9:27 a.m.

I had fun last night, but like everyone else had trouble keeping it clean. I actually had the chance to prevent Spool from getting a clean sweep in the Vettes but managed to screw up the landing on 2 different jumps in the 2nd race.

Mudd, sorry for the contact in the 2nd Vette race. We had very different lines and brake/throttle points, but what kept getting me is when you scrubbed speed without using the brakes. After following people off in earlier races I was focused on looking ahead and not at the car in front, and pretty much relying solely on brake lights as my warning sign if someone was slowing down. If it was any car other than the Vette it would have been fine, but gaps close so quickly in those cars (especially with the on/off throttle difference) by the time I realized you were scrubbing speed I was getting into the back of you.

The corner leading onto the last straight was a case of me trying to set up the pass by being slower early, but powering down as soon as possible to get a run out of the corner to make sure I could get completely by on the straight. When you ran wide I thought I was good to hold my line and keep the power down, but when you came back to mid track I didn't have time to do anything but keep going straight. It all worked out in the end and you finished where you should have, but it was a rough last section for both of us.

I'd also like to say that my comment about the race being frustrating was not directed at you. It was about the mistakes I made in the race, and more specifically the 2 stupid spins I had in places I had nailed 100% correctly the first race, as well as several other small offs where I hadn't made mistakes before.

Nick_Comstock
Nick_Comstock PowerDork
4/30/15 10:52 a.m.

I would like consideration for shunt points. I have no clue what corner it was but it was a tight right hand. I was behind mudd and he slowed quicker than I expected. I went to the outside lane tryin to avoid contact, slowed enough to not go off and got tagged by sauce who then went inside mudd for the pass and just kept on going. I went out to the grass and got stuck to the wall. It took a second to get going and I severely over drove the track trying to catch back up.

e30Matt
e30Matt HalfDork
4/30/15 11:35 a.m.

In reply to Nick_Comstock:

Which race was that? The only person I remember having contact with in the Vettes was Mudd (aside from some bumping through the CF right after the start), but the track is so long and the cars so frenetic that it's quite possible I'm just forgetting. If I knocked you off track I'm sorry, and that definitely warrants a stewards review.

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
4/30/15 11:40 a.m.

We need to take a look at the shunt points and how they are done.

The "some one slowed quicker than I expected" is a judgment error not a shunt. Generally we don't make passes going into corners or in corners in the game (per Airs rules). When we do it is the passing cars responsibility to do it cleanly and only if the threshold of getting even with the lead car is met prior to the corner. Better to hang back and get a better run through a corner and pass on corner exit.

I always considered a shunt to be if you are taken out by someone else. If they run into you or they miss a brake point or some one crashes and comes back on track and takes someone out who is otherwise minding there own business. In short if the person getting taken out has no control over what happened to them then it is a shunt. What you are describing to me is not a shunt it is you miss timing a corner and almost running over some one and getting caught out by it. Make cense?

I have done this MANY MANY times and I use to get mad about it but realized I was really the one to blame and it was my responsibility to better time things with respect to other cars.

Same goes for the Sauce incident with Mudd. Sauce miss timed the exit speeds between him and Mudd and resulted in him getting crashed out. Sauce does not have the right to pass Mudd he has to earn it and get it done cleanly. He did not do it and got caught out by it in the vett race. Had it cost Mudd a spot I would have actually nominated Mudd for the shunt points. I ran with Mudd some last night and I did not have any issues with him. I know how he drives and I adjust for it.

Nick I am not saying you should not get them I just think we need to clear up what is a shunt and what is not. With out actually looking at the replay I can not make a call for your specific incident. There may be other factors involved. Did Mudd get loose? Did he drop a tire? Again there are many factors that need to be looked at and you should definitely be considered for shunt points if you feel that you were taken out by no fault of your own.

Don't be made at me. I am kind of singling you out on this one BUT you raise a very good point that needs to be clarified. The other thing is we are all racing so close now that things like this are going to happen. A laps in judgment even for a split second in the Vett and bad things happen so fast it is hard to place "blame". They really are "racing incidents".

I had one with you last night (or maybe Sauce???). You (or sauce) came from out of no where and were under me at my turn in. I never saw you coming. Do I get shunt points for that one? OR . . . Do you get shunt points because our contact caused you to crash in the next corner? It is a tough one.

The shunt points really need some clarification. I think Argo did this at least one season back and we should re visit it and possibly see if air can add it to the lead in on the first page. Every incident will still need review but it would be helpful to everyone to have a clarification of what is a shunt and what is not.

e30Matt
e30Matt HalfDork
4/30/15 12:07 p.m.

In reply to dean1484:

The Mudd part of the story is just lead up. The shunt would be me coming up from behind and knocking him off track, which, per your description, would be a shunt by me for failing to make a clean pass.

After racking my brain I think I know what corner/situation comp is talking about, but I don't remember any contact. I don't think I saved the replay though, so someone else will have to tell me what happened.

e30Matt
e30Matt HalfDork
4/30/15 1:05 p.m.

Comp, was it about 1/3 of the way into the race, after you go over the low bridge that curves left, then you have the hard right/left combo leading to the long uphill?

Nick_Comstock
Nick_Comstock PowerDork
4/30/15 1:08 p.m.

I understand what you are saying dean. In this situation I was hit from behind and pushed off course. If I wouldn't have faded out to give mudd some room it would have been a massive shunt. As it was the contact was minimal but when you are at the edge of adhesion it doesn't take much to send you off course. I made no contact with mudd.

I know it wasn't intentional, he wasn't that close to us coming down the straight, I didn't think he was close enough to even attempt a move in the corner. I was surprised by the contact an even more surprised to see him pass mudd on the inside as he was inside of me but just in front.

Nick_Comstock
Nick_Comstock PowerDork
4/30/15 1:10 p.m.

In reply to e30Matt:

I'm not sure, it was a medium length down hill straight lead into a tight second gear right hander that then went back up hill and slightly to the left.

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
4/30/15 1:23 p.m.

In reply to Nick_Comstock:

Ahhh I think I know that one. It is in the last 1/3 of the track

e30Matt
e30Matt HalfDork
4/30/15 2:21 p.m.

In reply to Nick_Comstock:

I'm pretty sure we're talking about the same place. I wasn't as far back as it probably appeared, and with the double draft that gap can close quite quickly. From my perspective it appeared that you and Mudd got a bit tangled and both ran wide. Having done that in practice I knew that if you overcook it at entry you almost have to come to a complete stop to get the car turned and going the right direction again (the tun is sharper than 90* and there's a very aggressive invisible wall about 1/2 car width off the outside which really hinders things). I knew I wouldn't be able to pass Mudd there, but I had a much better setup for the corner and the inside was open. I figured if I kept a very tight line I could pull roughly even with Mudd at exit, keeping him track left and effectively blocking you. The uphill left hander immediately after is a lot wider than it appears (especially at exit) and can be taken 2 wide, so I thought we'd take it as such with Mudd on the inside and whoever had the better exit would take the lead on the following open uphill section.

Now, I do recall some slight contact at corner exit, but I thought that was with Mudd and door to door. I don't recall any contact at entry, but I may have been so focused on Mudd I didn't notice. I will concede it was an aggressive move, but one I thought came off pretty clean. If it didn't then I owe some apologies and some points may be going elsewhere.

Nick_Comstock
Nick_Comstock PowerDork
4/30/15 3:03 p.m.

The small bumps are more noticable to me know that I have the bass shakers, I actually felt it. I know it wasn't mudd because I could see his entire car to my right just in front of me. Like I said it was minor contact but just enough to push me off and into the invisible wall which stopped me dead.

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
4/30/15 4:37 p.m.

We can all blame Nicks "But Shaker" In fact now that I remember this I am going to make it a point to "tap" you when ever possible. Just to get those things shaking.

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
4/30/15 4:41 p.m.

bass shakers - a "b" becomes a.. . .. .

mrmudd583
mrmudd583 New Reader
4/30/15 7:19 p.m.

the reason for my abrupt departure had nothing to do with anything on track, i had a housefull of family , 3 sons there wifes and 3 grandaughters one who had ran off with my headset screaming chase me poppa. luckily she didnt drop them in the toilet like she did gramas iphone few weeks back

Advan046
Advan046 SuperDork
5/1/15 9:14 a.m.
dean1484 wrote: We need to take a look at the shunt points and how they are done. The "some one slowed quicker than I expected" is a judgment error not a shunt.

I think your statement is valid but doesn't apply to what I read. If Dean avoids hitting me because I have to brake earlier doesn't mean Dean is fair game to punt. If Dean goes off into the wall by himself, not a shunt or punt.

But if Dean had to go offline in a controlled way to avoid me, Air can try to make a clean pass on Dean. If Air hits Dean off track in the attempt then he just punted Dean. Because Air has the responsibility to make the pass clean. It could be perfectly understandable that Air would expect Dean to still be offline long enough for the pass to happen. Dean would have some responsibility to recover from dodging me while leaving a little room just in case Air is going to try something. But in the way we try to run this series we want there to be less contact and more fun. Shunts points are there for when mistakes happen that cost someone a lot.

Based on what I have read I think Sauce just brushed Comp but as we have seen since GT5 a brush can be enough to fully shunt someone. The game may send feedback and physics commands to Sauce to replicate a brush while Comp's game and PS3 send feedback and physics commands that he just got blasted. To the point of our series rules it sounds like a shunt.

Advan046
Advan046 SuperDork
5/1/15 9:28 a.m.

On the topic of shunts I constantly remind myself of this moment

Air checked up to avoid Cam and I blasted them both with a bit of callousness. I basically vowed never to do something like that again. It sucks for the people I am racing with and it hurts my race too. Clean = Fast.

Advan046
Advan046 SuperDork
5/1/15 9:30 a.m.

Man we had big fields in series 2!

 photo WillowSpringsInternationalRaceway-BigWillow_11_zpsb239053e.jpg

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
5/1/15 4:52 p.m.
dean1484 wrote: ...The shunt points really need some clarification. I think Argo did this at least one season back and we should re visit it and possibly see if air can add it to the lead in on the first page. Every incident will still need review but it would be helpful to everyone to have a clarification of what is a shunt and what is not.

I certainly don't have an exhaustive definition of a shunt. But the essence of it is:

Anything that adversely effects your race that was no fault of your own. As you noted, taking a chance that did not work out, is not a shunt. However, something like getting kicked can, or even hitting an invisible wall or a stop that shouldn't be there. The one unofficial addition to this is that when someone takes someone out and it was clearly their fault as the result of being too aggressive etc (e.g. not getting caught up in something) finishing orders can be swapped (this has historically been a voluntary thing).

In addition to the above, awarding the shunt is weighted by how damaging the shunt was to the driver. If they are in a close points hunt, they are much more favored from shunts then someone without any competition (e.g. if Spool got a massive shunt in the last race, no reason to give it to him if there was another one in the race)

CAMikaze
CAMikaze Reader
5/3/15 5:30 p.m.
Advan046 wrote: Man we had big fields in series 2!  photo WillowSpringsInternationalRaceway-BigWillow_11_zpsb239053e.jpg

A pity I didn't have a working PS3 at the time this season was going on.

Out of curiosity what testing plans are in the offing for tonight?

Argo1
Argo1 SuperDork
5/3/15 6:29 p.m.

Hopefully we will have several new drivers this season and get back to full fields. Always more fun then.

With that in mind, we need to make this season's classes and tracks newbie friendly.

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
5/3/15 11:12 p.m.

Wednesday

Results:

Final Standings:

1 ... 30 31 32 33
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