Learn me sidecars in general, and Ural in particular.

I don't know if I've ever posted in Sprockets. It's nice here. Smells of cinnamon. You guys really keep this area up.

The missus and I watched a documentary about people who share the sidecar experience with their dogs. I think she's starting to see the romance of this, and it certainly ticks some of the motoring adventure fantasies I had around a Morgan three-wheeler/road-tripping an old british roadster/visiting some very mild trails.

So, I've been dimly aware of Ural, and there is a certain coolness around older BMWs that attracts us. I know the Ural has two wheel drive, while add-on sidecars wouldn't. I also know the Ural geometry wouldn't support riding the bike solo.

I expect we'd use it for general grocery getting in the pretty months, and maybe some longer road trips. Probably load it down with a tent and do some tent camping, or fill it with clothes and hit up some quirky Airbnb for a weekend.

The quality of Urals (or Urinals like some of my motorbiking journo friends in the UK call them) is very dependent on how deep the importer or previous owner dug through them. The quality out of the factory is, err, very variable.

They're a 30s design that hasn't really been improved much, so prepare to bring a lot of time, expect things to fall off and brakes that need written instructions about three weeks before you need them. OTOH if you want to take an agricultural short cut, most modern-ish bikes with sidecars will be left in the dust.

That said, everybody who still owns one loves them. My brain's wired wrong for driving a sidecar rig so I left it at a test ride.

Be aware not all Urals have the powered side wheel. It's optional. Yes the quality is spotty but steadily getting better. worst thing is the hardware is either dog crap soft or glass hard either way most owners break down and just go though the bike with in a year or so and replace all the nuts and bolts.

You should read this... http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=794963

Then, build/buy a better side-car rig if that sort of thing floats yer boat.

Nothing to add except please don't ride with just riding goggles. Guy near me has one and I see him all the time in half helmet and old school goggles and he looks like such a tool.

Best sidecar I've ever seen was a local guy with a wheelchair. He basically put a platform in place of the sidecar so he could roll on. Then he had some way to control the bike from his chair. He'd tool around town looking like the motorcycle rider fell off. It was awesome.

I know nothing else.

They're expensive for what they are.

A Ural Patrol is $14,000 up here in Canada, the same price as a lot of real motorcycles but a lot less than a real motorcycle with a sidecar.

With a whopping 40-ish horsepower dragging a chair around, I would be too frightened to ride one in traffic.

They're also built like everything else that's Russian.

No sidecar experience myself, just hearsay from those who do have experience with them.

The likes of a Morgan is symmetrical. So it handles the same when turned left or right. It also acts like a car.

The likes of a sidecar equipped motorcycle is not symmetrical. So it does not handle the same when turned left vs turn right. Supposedly this can become quite the big deal when pushed hard. It acts like a weird motorcycle, not like a car and not like a conventional motorcycle.

Nothing against a hack, I'd like to try it some day. Just an understanding that one should not approach it with a cavalier attitude.

I think the money could be better spent buying a nice dual purpose bike and then designing a sidecar to fit.

I completely despise the the answer I'm about to give but since this isn't about my enjoyment or dignity ... if you want three wheels and handling that isn't silly at best then a symmetrical arrangement is going to be much more fun to ride/drive. Can Am Spyders are all the rage these days among the sort of people who don't care what I think of them

EDIT: Or, if you want to lean like a bike but park like an ATV... the Brudeli Leanster might be your huckleberry of embarassment!

In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:

I don't think having three wheels is the OP's concern. The side-car desire is because it is the easiest (only?) way to carry three bodies (rider + passenger + dog) on a motorcycle. Not sure a CanAm (or even a Morgan) could do that.

at least that's the gist I was getting...

I've seen a couple of Urals with sidecars around me. There even used to be a guy who sold them out of his house not far away (but I haven't seen any there in years). Definitely an interesting contraption. However, I have three old British cars... sort of the same thing: obsolete when new tech; wrapped in an interesting package; questionable weather protection; but more cargo room.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: You should read this... http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=794963 Then, build/buy a better side-car rig if that sort of thing floats yer boat.

Gah! I'm giving this a grain of salt, but it's hard to ignore completely. That certainly gives me pause.

So, last night, I made it part of the way through the how to ride a Ural guide from the Ural site. I plan on finishing it tonight. We'd probably take a sidecar course too.

Probably the easiest alternative might be a small convertible with a back seat. Probably more E30 than Crosscabriolet.

I don't think a trike like the Can-Am would work for the dog. The wife is strongly against the Polaris, which is a shame, as a shop near me has them on offer for rentals.

I haven't had time to really read everyone's responses, so I'll go back through the thread this evening. Thanks for the information so far.

Other way to skin same cat:

I rode a Goldwing with a sidecar last year. Cornering is unlike a motorcycle, as you steer instead of lean. That was a big fun killer for me.

Don't discount the fact that a bike with a sidecar is going to take up nearly as much garage space as a car.

A convertible car is a delight. I've had several, and still do for that matter.

They ain't a motorcycle. Not even pee-wee convertible sportscars like a Spitfire or a Miata. It's just not the same.

That said, for many, a convertible will scratch the itch enough to satisfy.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Other way to skin same cat:

That might make more sense. There are certainly more options available when shopping for a BMW GS.

Having spent a few years in an indie vintage-BMW-leaning shop, I have some modest saddle time on sidehack rigs. What I learned is that it's all about the setup of the chair, especially toe in/out of the third wheel.

I've ridden rigs that were so stable you could take your hands off the bars at 80mph and they'd track dead straight, and I've ridden some that shook their heads violently, or really wanted to flip over around right turns.

It's not as easy as bolting some parts on, so you need to have a shop experienced with sidecars do the final setup and alignment. These are usually shops where old guys wear overalls unironically. There will probably be a pipe smoked there as well.

The most salient point to keep in mind is that sidecars offer most of the disadvantages of both cars and motorcycles. You get the exposure to the elements and accidents of a bike, along with their relative lack of visibility, and most of the size of a car along with the lack of maneuverability. And unless you're really committed to learning to ride the things, you can't push as hard as either a car or a bike, so you're usually in tootle mode.

And it's a really odd sensation to feel the momentum of the chair as it obeys the laws of momentum and wants to either stay at rest when you accelerate - pulling you to the right - or stay in motion when you slow - pushing you to the left. They're really a unique creature with their own set of rules and skills required.

All that said, I'm giving serious consideration to building a so-called "conversion rig" based on a BMW /2 frame with a more modern (relatively speaking) engine and suspension. One of the best I ever rode was a /2 with a VW Bug motor and very large Webers; not an uncommon conversion at the time. I'd probably just go with a later 900 or 1000cc airhead motor.

Then again, walking into the Ural dealer and signing on the line for financing and a warranty has its perks.

At this point, I'm getting the impression that a 2014 or later Ural is kind of a different beast in quality. That's a lot of money. I'm in love with the new Gear Up Sportsman Adventurer Camp Wandawega Edition, because I'm a sucker.

In reality, I can't imagine I'd be able to swing whatever the price is (standard Gear Up is $16k, so figure $17-18) for something that is really a toy.

Remaining choices would be to pick up a cheap Ural and deal with the realities associated with that choice. I've found one for $4k. Probably better would be to pick up a reasonable bike and a reasonable sidecar and bolt them together. That's the next thing for me to look into. And yes, that looks like it'll be a trickier option, as things like compatibility and toe angle come up.

I've also made my way through a book on the topic of riding these things. Most of what I've read makes sense, but I am planning to take a course as well. The momentum, and its effect on straight line acceleration and braking makes sense to me. It fits in with my mental model of how this thing should handle. It's asymmetrical, and it should handle that way. The main source of trepidation for me is the how hard right handers go. I'm going to have to do a lot of practice on lifting the sidecar, because the strategy for managing that doesn't sound entirely intuitive. I haven't heard the transition discussed much, but if you think about it, it seems like the left/right pull of the sidecar would start to get really odd as the sidecar wheel is increasingly unweighted. The rolling resistance would reduce on a right hander, making the whole bike want to go left more. If you brake during the transition, it seems like it would increase the left push effect, on top of the effects of the momentum, as the unweighted right would result in an effective increase in left brake bias that scales to the amount of weight on the right wheel, if any. Then, setting the wheel back down, you're going to have a surge of push to the right, again exacerbated by any braking.

At least, that's what I feel would happen. That's why I want to take a course.

I'd been dreaming about a sidecar for taking my dog along for a while, and I finally got around to building one. Pics in a similar thread here, and a build log on ADV:

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/sit-stay-ride/103429/page1/

I wanted something different, and I already had a bike (SV650) that was suitable, but not popular for hacking. So I sketched up a leaner chassis and subframe for my bike. Designed it myself, built what I could, and had a fabricator friend do the bending and welding. I plan to finish the body in the next month or so, test rides sans body have been uneventful. I'll be in it for around $1500 when done.

I think the Urals are neat, but it seems like they are a long-term maintenance hobby. I think you can hack just about anything, and there are a couple companies that post/advertise on ADV that will do just that for you.

I've been planning a leaner hack for my Katana for years. I even went so far as to lean the bike over almost to dragging a peg and walk it in a circle to see just how big it would be. The plan is to mount the front pivot point on the bike higher up and off to the sidecar side a bit so that the wheel on the hack steers to match the bike's circle. Offset to the hack side for Ackerman, of course.

Of course I haven't even ridden the bike in the last 4 years, so progress is pretty much nil.

I had a Yamaha XS1100 with a Vetter Terraplane on it in college and riding with the hack is a completely different animal. I got decent with the rig just before someone offered me way more for the sidecar than I had into the whole rig. Even with that experience, I only ever went for one ride on my father's Ural with sidecar. The sidecar wheel being inline with the rear wheel of the bike allowed for a lot more weight induced swing on the bike than the Vetter ever had. Even among sidecars the Ural is odd.

Matt:

I met a guy who is a promotional spokesperson of sorts for Ural USA and has one of the new hack versions himself at a track day over the weekend. If you are serious, I can contact the organizer and see if I can get his email if you want to talk to someone who can't stop (seriously) talking about Urals.

I can assure you he won't try to talk you OUT of buying a Ural but he did also know an awful lot about them.