Are Electric Cars Collectable?

The recent sale of a Tesla Roadster Sport for $45,000 raised a few eyebrows here in the office. Will electric cars ever become collectible? Considering that they have more or less gone mainstream, that fact is likely inevitable.

But that Tesla sale isn’t an anomaly. In March, Bring a Trailer got $65,000 for another one.

Discuss.

Join Free Join our community to easily find more Tesla news.
Comments
View comments on the GRM forums
dculberson
dculberson UltimaDork
5/14/19 8:34 a.m.

$45k for a car that was $129k 10 years ago doesn't seem like an eyebrow raising amount. I wouldn't be surprised to see a 2010 Mustang GT selling for $10k. Seems about right, depreciation wise.

Man, think about that. The owner paid $129k for that car, drove it 4k miles, and sold it for $45k. That's $21/mile in depreciation. OUCH.

Also, your second link (to the $65k auction) still has the right parenthesis in it so it doesn't work. Try this: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2011-tesla-roadster-2/

The0retical
The0retical UberDork
5/14/19 8:44 a.m.

I'm not sure they're going to be that collectable in much the same way that the original iPod or iPhone aren't "collectable".

The major issue, at the moment, is that the tech on which the vehicle has been built will slowly become obsolete. It's unlikely that they'll receive the same kind of support home hobbists provide for old electronics (at least without a right to repair law), so they're basically just planned obsolescence. Just e-waste with extra recyclables.

I'd honestly be surprised if Roadsters and early Model S's are serviceable after the next 10 years or next breakthrough in battery tech. Which ever comes first.

Yes it's possible that you can swap the batteries and hack the "ECU" like we do in modern cars, but the kind of people that collect cars typically aren't the same ones that swap flat plane Coyote engines into Miatas. Maybe 30 years from now after the obsolescence has taken it's toll, and someone wants to own the only powered Tesla Roadster in the US, but that's a long time to wait and I don't see the prices on EV-1's moving in the same fashion or receiving the same kind of love.

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 UltimaDork
5/14/19 8:54 a.m.

Too early for this crop of electrics, just typical used car prices.  Now, if you had an 1888 Flocken Elektrowagen, now that would be collectible.

Relative rarity aside, the most collectible tend to be the first and the last of a given make or model, so the early Tesla Roadster would likely be a good candidate.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
5/14/19 9:06 a.m.
The0retical said:

I'm not sure they're going to be that collectable in much the same way that the original iPod or iPhone aren't "collectable".

The major issue, at the moment, is that the tech on which the vehicle has been built will slowly become obsolete. It's unlikely that they'll receive the same kind of support home hobbists provide for old electronics (at least without a right to repair law), so they're basically just planned obsolescence. Just e-waste with extra recyclables.

I'd honestly be surprised if Roadsters and early Model S's are serviceable in the after the next 10 years or next breakthrough in battery tech. Which ever comes first.

Yes it's possible that you can swap the batteries and hack the "ECU" like we do in modern cars, but the kind of people that collect cars typically aren't the same ones that swap flat plane Coyote engines into Miatas. Maybe 30 years from now after the obsolescence has taken it's toll, and someone wants to own the only powered Tesla Roadster in the US, but that's a long time to wait and I don't see the prices on EV-1's moving in the same fashion or receiving the same kind of love.

Strongly disagree, I expect there will be companies replacement packs for these cars when the manufacturer no longer supports them, just like third-party parts manufacturers make/reman. parts for old cars now.

ShawnG
ShawnG PowerDork
5/14/19 9:23 a.m.

No matter how strange, awful or ugly it is. There will be someone out there who loves it.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
5/14/19 9:30 a.m.
ShawnG said:

No matter how strange, awful or ugly it is. There will be someone out there who loves it.

Yup.  Someone will always want one, and by that simple request, it will be collectable.

The0retical
The0retical UberDork
5/14/19 9:39 a.m.

In reply to GameboyRMH :

I expect so, the question is how long that manufacturing capacity will hold out after the rest of the industry moves on? Making batteries is messy and expensive, even at scale it's expensive.

What happens if LG moves away from pouch cells to sticks or Panasonic moves from sticks to moldable solid state and stops producing the cells? The aftermarket will need to reengineer an entire battery solution for a handful of cars, which while possible, is prohibitively expensive for most companies for the foreseeable future. The main sticking point is that aftermarket battery refurbishers currently rely on these OE manufacturers as the source for the cells that they're remanning. Aftermarket companies would need to either purchase the tooling and production capacity to continue to build the cells or build their own cell producing factories, and supply lines, to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars.

Coupled with the strong possibility that, given the state of right to repair here in the US, Tesla will at some-point DRM it's battery packs (not to mention already remotely locks the ECU of the cars on the secondary market), you're looking at a lot of work and expense. That puts a serious damper on the desire and ability of most people to collect something like this.

Someone will want it I'm sure, but they're not the same kind of durable good as an air cooled 911 or current GT-3. At least not at the moment.

STM317
STM317 UltraDork
5/14/19 9:57 a.m.

Never doubt society's ability to be stupid with money.

dculberson
dculberson UltimaDork
5/14/19 10:01 a.m.

@The0retical: The cells in a Tesla are an industry standard cell type. There's no way you won't be able to get them in 10 years like you claimed. You can still get lantern batteries - when's the last time you bought something that used those? The Roadster uses 18650 cells which are made in the millions (or billions?) now and I guarantee you they'll be made in the millions in 2029.

The worry about DRM batteries certainly doesn't apply to any of the vehicles discussed here.

dculberson
dculberson UltimaDork
5/14/19 10:02 a.m.
STM317 said:

Never doubt society's ability to be stupid with money.

I would certainly argue that this statement applies to most collector cars. There's no reason in the world for an aircooled 911 to be worth 6 figures.

The0retical
The0retical UberDork
5/14/19 11:11 a.m.

In reply to dculberson :

I'm well aware of what a 18650 is and their relative price. I'm also well aware of the current capacity constraints facing the entire industry at the moment and how hard it has been to scale battery production to meet an affordable price point and provide the energy density required to actually make a usable EV.

The Roadsters 3.0 (80 KWh) battery retrofit was 3 years ago and cost $29,000 dollars. Tesla actually lost money on that and stated that they were having trouble producing the housings and PEM for the new packs due to tooling constraints. Even with the retrofit, these cars exist in that arena where parts make them are pretty cost prohibitive to own. That's again due to the current production limitations of not only cells but electronics required to manage them. If you have enough money laying around I can name several contract manufacturers who will build the control modules required. That severely limits the appeal to most people and puts them in the same realm as a Veyron et.al to keep them on the road. There's a market but it's a small one.

I still feel that current gen EV's are moving towards the planned obsolescence model like a most other consumer grade electronics.

A battery chemistry breakthrough might get you the same packaging as the 18650. Or it might not.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against EV's but they're still nascent and low production. The fact that they don't currently have a deep common parts bin or a super inexpensive method of reproducing complex parts yet severely hampers the ability to keep them as a "car."

I'd probably feel a bit differently if the major players could standarize the freaking plug and charging system at least.

dculberson
dculberson UltimaDork
5/14/19 11:21 a.m.

In reply to The0retical :

I'm just not sure why you would need a whole "retrofit" or replacement housings and PEM in keeping an old car on the road. Few people look for replacements of whole assemblies on old collectible cars, they replace bad components. Same deal with a battery pack. Bad cells can be - and are - replaced all the time at marginal cost. 18650s may be difficult for manufacturers to get in the quantities they need but I can order as many as I could practically use off eBay, Amazon, etc. right now and I am willing to bet I will be able to do so in 10 years.

The retrofit was more for people using the cars as daily drivers, and looking to extend their range, I'm sure. Not really applicable to the collector car market.

Veyrons are very expensive to keep on the road, yes. But are you saying they can't be collector cars? That claim would seem farcical. They're pretty much already collector cars. They'll always be worth millions. Cost to maintain has very little to do with collectible status.

ShawnG
ShawnG PowerDork
5/14/19 11:23 a.m.

And I restore cars for a living.

Pete Gossett
Pete Gossett MegaDork
5/14/19 11:27 a.m.
alfadriver said:
ShawnG said:

No matter how strange, awful or ugly it is. There will be two people out there who loves it.

Yup.  Someone will always want one, and by that simple request, it will be collectable.

 

dculberson
dculberson UltimaDork
5/14/19 11:29 a.m.

In reply to ShawnG :

I love that comic.

The0retical
The0retical UberDork
5/14/19 11:30 a.m.

In reply to dculberson :

We're delving into what constitutes a car as opposed to a museum piece at this point, which is kind of where I was going with this in a round about manner.

Someone will want them. People collect rocks, every generation of Apple electronics, and dead bugs. So yes, just about anything can considered be a collectable, EV's included.

I have the same view of these types of things as cars with 8 miles on them that continuously change hands. They're a speculative investment vehicle rather than a car because, at that point, they're no different than a collectable plate. (Is it really a plate if you can't eat off it? Or is it a picture painted on a round porcelain medium? Schrodinger's collectibles.)

The people that can afford to keep them as a "car" are going to be the same ones that buy a Veyron or other vehicles that exist in the upper strata of collectable cars. These aren't the type of buyers who purchase a Model 3, Model S, Bolts, Leafs, 500e's, eGolfs, or other early generation EV's as a long term investment.

The Roadster, maybe, just for it's providence as a semi-exotic early gen EV, but I highly doubt many other cars of the current generation will be considered collectables. Which is what the initial question was about.

I'd bet the Porsche eMission (Taycan?) will find itself as a collectable eventually. That's just Porsche things though. Maybe a Rimac as well.

ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory PowerDork
5/14/19 11:31 a.m.

I can be short-sighted and equally narrow-minded but I really enjoy myself watching and listening to 426 Hemi’s, Boss 429’s Cobra Jets, all GM small and big blocks from the 60’s and 70’s leaving a car show and smelling the racing gas fumes and cannot fathom ever being interested in watching a 49-50 year old EV silently whirring away.

ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory PowerDork
5/14/19 11:34 a.m.
ShawnG said:

And I restore cars for a living.

Hobbies aren’t supposed to be useful. Just enjoyable. Jokes need to not totally miss the point to be funny.

Robbie
Robbie UltimaDork
5/14/19 11:38 a.m.
ShawnG said:

And I restore cars for a living.

That's exactly right. I find I collect many different types of garbage. Not just cars.

nderwater
nderwater UltimaDork
5/14/19 12:56 p.m.

Baker's have been collectable for a while now:

red_stapler
red_stapler SuperDork
5/14/19 1:06 p.m.
alfadriver said:
ShawnG said:

No matter how strange, awful or ugly it is. There will be someone out there who loves it.

Yup.  Someone will always want one, and by that simple request, it will be collectable.

And the Lane Museum will have two of them somehow.

ShawnG
ShawnG PowerDork
5/14/19 1:22 p.m.

In reply to nderwater :

We have a Detroit Electric, very similar to a Baker.

We also have a H.A. Moyer, it's a hybrid from 1913.

nimblemotorsports
nimblemotorsports New Reader
5/14/19 2:10 p.m.

Sure they are collectable.  If the question is more 'will they increase in value'  then the answer is probably NO.

The people who will have disposable income in the future are not into cars like the ones today.   

What will a 50 year old born in 1990 want to buy in 2040?  Not a car is a good bet.

Bob_Wanner
Bob_Wanner New Reader
5/14/19 4:56 p.m.

This original Tesla Roadster is a TSLA drivetrain in a Lotus Elise chassis. It is the first Tesla , the first real sports E car, and can be updated to better performance . Whenever the new Tesla sports car actually happens, it will cost a bit more than this car. The question might be , what will the value of ICE cars be in 20 years when everything is E powered? At under $50K, it was well bought. 

codrus
codrus UberDork
5/14/19 5:03 p.m.

I'm pretty sure that if you had an original EV1 right now it would be worth a fair bit on BAT.  GM never sold them, only leased, and after the leases were up they took pretty much all of them back and crushed them.  I think there are a few in museums.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
5/14/19 7:12 p.m.

Collectible? Prices are already through the roof.

Why should full sized be any different? 

GIRTHQUAKE
GIRTHQUAKE Reader
5/14/19 7:13 p.m.

We also have no straight answer for this because we genuinely don't know where battery technology will go in the next few years. Dyson still alleges that they're about to produce solid-state batteries, and the science behind Lithium-Sulphur from compaies like this one could contain up to 3 times the energy density of Lithium-ion from some sources.

So I think I just have to repeat what someone already said- people will collect it because for whatever reason, they like it. People today go though huge lengths to keep something period-correct and working, and with people building their own battery packs out of trashed cells for free I'd say they'll still be around.

te72
te72 Reader
5/14/19 9:46 p.m.

Lacks excitement, lacks passion, was derivitive of (and also worse performing) an existing design, yet... it's unique. Someone will want one, so depending supply and demand of the future, maybe? These cars, apart from being a footnote in EV history, always seemed odd to me. I think a quality sedan would have been the smarter move to debut with, to be honest. It didn't look much different from the Elise, cornered like a cement truck in comparison, and was three times as expensive. So, normal people AND car people would both be equally likely to ignore it.

 

Now had they simply launched with the Model S...

 

I'd put money on an Exige being more collectible though. Look what good Elans and Cortinas go for these days.

dculberson
dculberson UltimaDork
5/14/19 10:29 p.m.

In reply to te72 :

So the car that sold every one they could make you're claiming was a bad move? Why, exactly? They were hot commodities when new.

They couldn't go straight to the model S, that was too big a leap. The Roadster seemed to be a good first step to me.

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
5/14/19 10:35 p.m.

I still say that the early RWD Model S will be the Blue Chip EV collector car, specifically the P85+. That was in essence the first real Tesla and the first real EV that could actually be used every day and it will likely stay compatible for a long time.

 

Plus it'll be one of the very very few that can do burnouts.

rezisehtnys
rezisehtnys New Reader
5/15/19 2:24 a.m.

I guess I must be weird for liking the Tesla Roadster then. blush

Daylan C
Daylan C UltraDork
5/15/19 3:04 a.m.

In reply to rezisehtnys :

Yes. But there's nothing wrong with that. 

nimblemotorsports
nimblemotorsports New Reader
5/15/19 1:48 p.m.

Way too many Model S made, that is not a recipe for increasing value if that is what is meant by 'collectible'.

However, if you have an all-original one that stills works after 30 years, that will be rare, as the electronics will certainly fail, just look at any luxury car 10 years old to see that.

Only 2500 Roadsters were made, that is much better as collectibles go, but they were always expensive, so not sure I see too much upside, can you buy one today cheap?  don't think so

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
5/15/19 2:01 p.m.

The Tesla Roadster wasn't a bad car. Didn't look bad, didn't drive bad. It wasn't as good a car as the Elise, sure. But I think they'll have some collector's value just because they're rare, unusual, and Tesla's first car. I don't think there will be any trouble making replacement li-ion batteries for the foreseeable future - ni-cad, ni-mh and even lead-acid batteries are still available off the shelf. It could even be possible to build packs with a different type of battery that simulates li-ions at the module or pack level.

Turboeric
Turboeric Reader
5/15/19 7:49 p.m.

I think we need to also bear in mind that there are historically important cars and there are collector cars and there are blue chip investment cars, and they're not necessarily the same things. The original Mini is historically important, but is only marginally a collector car (with the possible exception of genuine Cooper S), and far from blue chip. I think Tesla as a company will prove to be historically important (the Model S more than the Roadster), because they were the first mainstream electric car, and caught the imagination of the general public as cool, with an appeal beyond the environmentalist demographic. Who knows if they will be good investments - that's been hard to predict in the past. But I predict they will be seen as marking a turning point in automotive history.

As for keeping them running, I bet there will be enough of an enthusiast community to create work-arounds for most problems. I remember when electronics  and emission controls first crept into cars in the 70s, and it was widely seen as the end of performance. In the 80s we started to get fully ECU controlled cars, which was going to mean the end of DIY mechanics. Grassroots motorsports was going to mean keeping the MGs and Triumphs running forever, because no-one would be able to do anything with those #@$!* computers. What we got instead was an enthusiast community of clever, resourceful people and the golden age of grassroots performance. The skillsets required are quite different in some cases (very few MG tuners could envision plugging a laptop into the ECU to change the mixture, rather than the arcane witchcraft of swapping SU metering needles), but there's never been so much performance in the aftermarket, much of it clean and reliable.

Change brings fear, but it also brings opportunity. Some things will pass into history, others will change our lives for the better. My 15 WRX outperforms my 58 XK150S in every way, and is clean, reliable and economical - things that the Jag couldn't even contemplate.

Crxpilot
Crxpilot Reader
5/15/19 10:32 p.m.

There are this many responses to the original post?  Sure sounds like they'll be collectible.

te72
te72 Reader
5/16/19 12:11 a.m.
dculberson said:

In reply to te72 :

So the car that sold every one they could make you're claiming was a bad move? Why, exactly? They were hot commodities when new.

They couldn't go straight to the model S, that was too big a leap. The Roadster seemed to be a good first step to me.

I can't say I was paying attention when they were new, barely even registered. Why were they a hot commodity? I say it was a bad move because it was a bad platform to use for an electric car. Electric doesn't suit, for the time being, sporty driving, due to the excessive weight in comparison. Yes, I know the Model 3 and even the Model S can be quick around the cones, but I've yet to see one take FTD, or even top 10 at any event I've been to.

 

Electric propulsion certainly didn't help the Elise platform. It was designed to be as lightweight as possible, to handle as optimally as was possible. What part of adding 1200 lbs to that platform makes any sense? Our LS400 weighs just under 3900 lbs. If it weighed 4900 lbs, I genuinely believe I'd struggle to notice. This would not be the case with my Miata. See where I'm going here? The shoe just didn't fit, hence why I say they should have started with the Model S.

 

I don't see why that would have been all that big of a leap? Perhaps acquiring a suitable pre-existing chassis from another manufacturer? I'm sure Lotus was MORE than grateful to see cash headed their way, from literally anybody. Others may not have been. I suppose I can see your point there, if that's what you were going for.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
5/16/19 6:19 a.m.

In reply to te72 :

You do realize that the collectability of a car does not hinge on what you think of the car- it's up to what others think of the car.  There's more than enough people who love Teslas that every one of them will be collectable.  

There are tons of cars out there that I don't like, and there are massive numbers of people who don't like the cars I have.  Neither of those factors means cars are not collectable.  

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt PowerDork
5/16/19 7:18 a.m.
te72 said:

I can't say I was paying attention when they were new, barely even registered. Why were they a hot commodity? I say it was a bad move because it was a bad platform to use for an electric car. Electric doesn't suit, for the time being, sporty driving, due to the excessive weight in comparison. Yes, I know the Model 3 and even the Model S can be quick around the cones, but I've yet to see one take FTD, or even top 10 at any event I've been to.

I think that was part of the point - at the time the Tesla Roadster came out, previous EV designs were marginally scaled up golf carts, with glacial acceleration and sub-80 mile range. With a few interesting home-brewed exceptions. The Roadster's 200 mile range and good acceleration were a game-changer - suddenly we had an EV that was a luxury item that people wanted instead of the automotive equivalent of a hair shirt, a display of how much you were willing to torture yourself to show off your virtue.

The other reason Tesla started with converted Elises was the startup cost was a lot lower - a way to get the company off the ground and prove they were viable before they tackled making an entire car from scratch.

Daylan C
Daylan C UltraDork
5/16/19 7:18 a.m.

Collectibility is dumb. It's literally just a a bunch of people with money suddenly deciding something is worth more because of whatever reason they decide upon. That being said. I would guess the Tesla Roadster does have potential because of it's place in Tesla's history. I personally don't like Tesla in general and especially the original Roadster but I'm not one of the rich guys that's going to bid one up unreasonably high at auction.

Tyler H
Tyler H UberDork
5/16/19 7:31 a.m.

Somewhere in the late 19th century: Members of Ye Olde Stagecoach Club ruminated about whether those new automobiles will ever be collectable.  "Coaches were designed to be pulled by horses.  Self-propulsion mechanisms make the coach too heavy and ruin the chassis dynamics.  Reach coaches = real horses!"

There is a Tesla Roadster in space.  I think they'll be collectable.

JoeyM
JoeyM Mod Squad
5/16/19 9:38 a.m.
Robbie said:
ShawnG said:

And I restore cars for a living.

That's exactly right. I find I collect many different types of garbage. Not just cars.

rcutclif

 I do that, too.  Occasionally the garbage even becomes parts of cars

dculberson
dculberson UltimaDork
5/16/19 10:12 a.m.
te72 said:

I can't say I was paying attention when they were new, barely even registered. Why were they a hot commodity? I say it was a bad move because it was a bad platform to use for an electric car. Electric doesn't suit, for the time being, sporty driving, due to the excessive weight in comparison. Yes, I know the Model 3 and even the Model S can be quick around the cones, but I've yet to see one take FTD, or even top 10 at any event I've been to.

 

Electric propulsion certainly didn't help the Elise platform. It was designed to be as lightweight as possible, to handle as optimally as was possible. What part of adding 1200 lbs to that platform makes any sense? Our LS400 weighs just under 3900 lbs. If it weighed 4900 lbs, I genuinely believe I'd struggle to notice. This would not be the case with my Miata. See where I'm going here? The shoe just didn't fit, hence why I say they should have started with the Model S.

 

I don't see why that would have been all that big of a leap? Perhaps acquiring a suitable pre-existing chassis from another manufacturer? I'm sure Lotus was MORE than grateful to see cash headed their way, from literally anybody. Others may not have been. I suppose I can see your point there, if that's what you were going for.

Again, they quickly sold every single one they could make. Your take on why it is or isn't a great car has no bearing on whether it was a good place for them to start. They needed to get their footing as a manufacturer, they needed money, they got both. A good start.

And yes, making a chassis from scratch is much more demanding than modifying an existing one. That's what I meant by the S being too big a leap.

GIRTHQUAKE
GIRTHQUAKE Reader
5/16/19 12:04 p.m.
te72 said:

I can't say I was paying attention when they were new, barely even registered. Why were they a hot commodity? I say it was a bad move because it was a bad platform to use for an electric car. Electric doesn't suit, for the time being, sporty driving, due to the excessive weight in comparison. Yes, I know the Model 3 and even the Model S can be quick around the cones, but I've yet to see one take FTD, or even top 10 at any event I've been to.

 

Electric propulsion certainly didn't help the Elise platform. It was designed to be as lightweight as possible, to handle as optimally as was possible. What part of adding 1200 lbs to that platform makes any sense? Our LS400 weighs just under 3900 lbs. If it weighed 4900 lbs, I genuinely believe I'd struggle to notice. This would not be the case with my Miata. See where I'm going here? The shoe just didn't fit, hence why I say they should have started with the Model S.

 

I don't see why that would have been all that big of a leap? Perhaps acquiring a suitable pre-existing chassis from another manufacturer? I'm sure Lotus was MORE than grateful to see cash headed their way, from literally anybody. Others may not have been. I suppose I can see your point there, if that's what you were going for.

"Electric doesn't suit sporty driving"? Then how did NIO and their electric EP9 make a Nurburgring lap record this year?

At the end of the day my guy, you're arguing against someone's personal tastes- and making some false equivalency arguments at the same time. Electrics have come a long way in 10 years, and that's just with facts we have reverse-engineered from Moody's, software data dumps and tesla wrecks.

te72
te72 Reader
5/17/19 11:51 p.m.

I get that collectibility is a matter of taste, and there's no accounting for it, no matter the flavor. That's just a reflection of the hobby in general.

 

I do also understand that electrics have come a long way in the last ten years, but I'll stand by my original point that in 2008, they were a long way from where they are today. Nio's EP9 wasn't running an admittedly amazing and freaky to watch (I'd seen it a while back, actually) ring lap back then, it was doing it after 20 years of modern EV development. Still impressive, but not the subject of the original post here. =)

 

My main point here is that not all things suit all vehicles. An electric drivetrain does not suit a sports car any more than a highly strung sports car engine suits a pickup truck. Each tool has a purpose, and until batteries and electric motors become as power dense (pound for pound here, so a 500 lb electric setup vs a 500 lb ICE + fuel supply), I won't find myself getting on board with them for sporting applications. For things like pickup trucks and more normal cars? Perfect, and getting better by the year. In time, I'll be with you guys, but for now... not so much. In 2008? Definitely not.

nimblemotorsports
nimblemotorsports New Reader
5/18/19 2:53 p.m.

Tesla wanted the roadster to be light and they knew nothing about building cars, so Lotus was a great match for them.  The fact they spent huge time and money to change everything was their own fault and failure.  Tesla in fact has been a huge failure at every turn.  It only shows that if you have billions to lose, you can look successful, or put another way, you can sell anything if you have enough money to promote it.

te72
te72 Reader
5/21/19 9:14 p.m.

In reply to nimblemotorsports :

To add some balance, a lot of car companies have failed throughout history, yet contributed some great innovations to the industry. Much as I don't care for EV's, I'll be happy to put Tesla right alongside Lotus themselves. Financially, both have been bleeding money more often than not. However, both have done things quite well and made the big companies take notice (and ideas) about what they do in their particular specialty.

 

Lotus did racing really well. Tesla has done EV really well. Both are specialist companies, and I admire the risk taking that both have put forth over the years.

 

Perhaps a better comparison would be Tucker. Tucker was also a company with ideas far ahead of its time...

ShawnG
ShawnG PowerDork
5/21/19 11:11 p.m.

In reply to te72 :

Tucker struggled to sell 50 cars.

I think Tesla is doing better than that.

Our Preferred Partners
ept9LiCnoQ3O9LlqVpL0GlUa7dVnyeMgEwlLAgZXgPPxSeg9va0gy9faPHNAWm5a