ICYMI: Dodge Charger Concept, an EV with exhaust and shifting

J.A.
By J.A. Ackley
Aug 20, 2022 | Dodge, ev, Dodge Charger

Photography Courtesy Stellantis

The Dodge Charger Daytona SRT Concept certainly provides the visual vibes of a muscle car. However, it won’t give you the physical vibes from a V8 Hemi. Unless, you count the Fratzonic Chambered Exhaust. That’s right, an EV with an exhaust–and also shifting.

Dodge revealed the car on Wednesday at Dodge Speed Week. The manufacturer claims the Charger offers the “industry-first exhaust system for an electric vehicle delivers a performance sound that rivals the SRT Hellcat.” The car emits a 126 dB roar that’ll hopefully get your attention–and maybe your neighbors’, as a muscle car should.

Dodge goes on to say the car “drives like a Dodge, looks like a Dodge and feels like Dodge–and just happens to be a battery-electric vehicle (BEV).”

Just to add to that experience, unlike most EVs, this Dodge offers shifting.

Say what?

Yes, you heard correctly over that 126 dB digital exhaust note.

They call it “eRupt.” It’s a “multi-speed transmission with an electro-mechanical shifting experience.” Just as with a traditional manual transmission, it has distinct shift points that offer the promise of “throwing shoulders into seatbacks in true Dodge style.”

And, wait, they’re not done, yet. This Charger has a PowerShot push-to-pass feature. Now, you, too, can channel your inner IndyCar driver when you pass cars on country roads.

The Dodge Charger Daytona SRT Concept certainly is different than ICE versions, but, maybe, it signals a new beginning for the EV muscle car market.

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Comments
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Colin Wood
Colin Wood Associate Editor
8/18/22 9:50 a.m.

I love it, but I can't be the only one who sees this:

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
8/18/22 9:55 a.m.

God i love this. 

Even better that they brought back the 60s logo, along with a heavy dose of 68-70 charger style. 

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
8/18/22 9:58 a.m.

Wait, a two-door Charger? What's up with that? 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/18/22 10:00 a.m.

Styling is cool for sure. The "exhaust" is stupid. The "transmission" doesn't do anything but make it feel like you shifted by interrupting the acceleration. It's like Dodge tried to figure out what the most pointless aspects of ICE were and then replicated them. Next they'll involve a shaker mechanism so you can feel it shake at idle.

But it's got us looking at pictures of the car and talking about it, so mission accomplished. Anyone notice it's a hatchback? That's going to be a pretty big load bay.

NickD
NickD MegaDork
8/18/22 10:02 a.m.

Fake exhaust note and the shifting are dumb (kinda like the CVTs with simulated shifts), but the styling is pretty solid.

iansane
iansane Dork
8/18/22 10:02 a.m.

These are the things focus groups are saying they want? Interesting.

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
8/18/22 10:03 a.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

After a certain number of years, perhaps they'll offer a plug-in so it periodically drips just a tiny bit of oil onto the ground. 

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
8/18/22 10:04 a.m.
Keith Tanner said:

The "exhaust" is stupid. The "transmission" doesn't do anything but make it feel like you shifted by interrupting the acceleration. It's like Dodge tried to figure out what the most pointless aspects of ICE were and then replicated them.

I think it could be fun. I haven't experience that many electric cars but those things both sound like they would make the car more enjoyable.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/18/22 10:21 a.m.
93EXCivic said:
Keith Tanner said:

The "exhaust" is stupid. The "transmission" doesn't do anything but make it feel like you shifted by interrupting the acceleration. It's like Dodge tried to figure out what the most pointless aspects of ICE were and then replicated them.

I think it could be fun. I haven't experience that many electric cars but those things both sound like they would make the car more enjoyable.

You mean "more like what's familiar". You can get breaks in the acceleration by lifting off the accelerator and pressing it down again. Since Dodge hasn't come forward with any technical information about the trans, we can't tell if it's actually doing anything other than just putting a pause in it.

There are ICE cars that have fake exhaust notes pumped into the cabin, and most enthusiasts seem to think it's a dumb idea. This one, blaring 126 dB outside the car, is aimed at the "loud pipes save lives but I'll never wear a helmet" crowd. Might as well do a Harley Davidson cross-promotion, if Harley Davidson is in business this week.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/18/22 10:23 a.m.
David S. Wallens said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

After a certain number of years, perhaps they'll offer a plug-in so it periodically drips just a tiny bit of oil onto the ground. 

They could also include a critical component that has to be readjusted on the side of the road using a matchbook occasionally so the owner can bond with the car.

Error404
Error404 HalfDork
8/18/22 10:25 a.m.
93EXCivic said:
Keith Tanner said:

The "exhaust" is stupid. The "transmission" doesn't do anything but make it feel like you shifted by interrupting the acceleration. It's like Dodge tried to figure out what the most pointless aspects of ICE were and then replicated them.

I think it could be fun. I haven't experience that many electric cars but those things both sound like they would make the car more enjoyable.

So you're saying the "instant torque" branding isn't enough to get buyers interested? Have they tried preloading Angry Birds so drivers have something to do when they're charging? 

It's almost certainly my own lack of interest in EVs but I'm reading this as "here's some gimmicks, now buy what you didn't want"

(I know this is all snark so don't take me too seriously, my boss certainly doesn't)

Tony Sestito
Tony Sestito UltimaDork
8/18/22 10:53 a.m.
Colin Wood said:

I love it, but I can't be the only one who sees this:

Tony Sestito
Tony Sestito UltimaDork
8/18/22 10:58 a.m.

I love it for a few reasons: 

-It makes similar sounds as the car in The Wraith

-The return of that cool 60's Dodge badge

-IT IS A HATCHBACK

-It angers all the same people I angered when I slapped EFI and modern ignition components on my Power Wagon

If the future is EV, sign me up for THIS future. I'll take one in black. 

Duke
Duke MegaDork
8/18/22 11:01 a.m.
NickD said:

Fake exhaust note and the shifting are dumb (kinda like the CVTs with simulated shifts), but the styling is pretty solid.

I absolutely despise fake or electronically enhanced exhaust notes for actual ICE vehicles.  For this it's completely unforgivable.

The 'shifting', on the other hand, is just garden-variety stupid.

The styling is good and the switch from ICE to EV for performance vehicles bothers me not even a little bit... if you actually do it and don't put the fake window-dressing simulated crap in it.

 

wspohn
wspohn SuperDork
8/18/22 11:09 a.m.

I agree with Keith, that the fake exhaust and shifting is a stupid idea.  Sadly, based on the average car buyer's intelligence, they would probably sell a lot of them.....

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
8/18/22 11:11 a.m.
Keith Tanner said:
93EXCivic said:
Keith Tanner said:

The "exhaust" is stupid. The "transmission" doesn't do anything but make it feel like you shifted by interrupting the acceleration. It's like Dodge tried to figure out what the most pointless aspects of ICE were and then replicated them.

I think it could be fun. I haven't experience that many electric cars but those things both sound like they would make the car more enjoyable.

You mean "more like what's familiar". You can get breaks in the acceleration by lifting off the accelerator and pressing it down again. Since Dodge hasn't come forward with any technical information about the trans, we can't tell if it's actually doing anything other than just putting a pause in it.

There are ICE cars that have fake exhaust notes pumped into the cabin, and most enthusiasts seem to think it's a dumb idea. This one, blaring 126 dB outside the car, is aimed at the "loud pipes save lives but I'll never wear a helmet" crowd. Might as well do a Harley Davidson cross-promotion, if Harley Davidson is in business this week.

Meh depends on how it is implemented. Personally I find electric cars I have driven pretty vanilla in feel. If this makes it make feel less like that, I am all for it but it also could easily feel gimmicky. If the "exhaust" is literally simulating a V8 noise then that is kind of lame. If it sounds like that Ford Mustang Mach E drift car, awesome. I want an electric car but I don't want it to feel like an electric car. I want it has analog as possible. Basically if it makes it more fun to drive, I don't care if it is a "gimmick".

Jerry
Jerry PowerDork
8/18/22 11:14 a.m.

It needs downloadable sounds.  Jetson's flying car, Luke Skywalker's landspeeder or maybe the Millenium Falcon?

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
8/18/22 11:16 a.m.

In reply to Jerry :

You beat me to it! I want my Charger to sound like a TIE fighter. That's your plug-in right there. 

Russian Warship, Go Berkeley Yourself
Russian Warship, Go Berkeley Yourself PowerDork
8/18/22 11:16 a.m.
Colin Wood said:

I love it, but I can't be the only one who sees this:

The Fratzog has been around since 1961, first used on the '62 Polara 500, years before Gene Roddenberry even penned his first draft for Star Trek.

Russian Warship, Go Berkeley Yourself
Russian Warship, Go Berkeley Yourself PowerDork
8/18/22 11:19 a.m.
Tony Sestito said:

I love it for a few reasons: 

-It makes similar sounds as the car in The Wraith

-The return of that cool 60's Dodge badge

-IT IS A HATCHBACK

-It angers all the same people I angered when I slapped EFI and modern ignition components on my Power Wagon

If the future is EV, sign me up for THIS future. I'll take one in black. 

From what I see here, it looks like it is mostly angering EV enthusiasts.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/18/22 11:26 a.m.

Putting a gearbox on an EV can make sense - look  at the relatively low top speed of most Teslas and how acceleration on them falls off at higher speeds for a quick example of why. EV motors have an optimal RPM range just like an ICE does, it's just much wider, in the same ballpark as an ICE's entire rev range. However a gearbox adds weight, and then you need to either give up on individual wheel-motors or to go individual wheel-powertrains (meaning even more weight). 4 speeds should be plenty for an EV however.

Having a purely theatrical noisemaking system is pretty silly though, maybe they could make it push air through the EV's cooling system so it at least has a function? cheeky

pres589 (djronnebaum)
pres589 (djronnebaum) UltimaDork
8/18/22 11:28 a.m.

Roofline reminds me of the Audi A5's which I've always liked.  Looks quite good.  Car needs a set of bright silver RFP1's and tires with some sidewall.  

Jerry
Jerry PowerDork
8/18/22 11:29 a.m.
David S. Wallens said:

In reply to Jerry :

You beat me to it! I want my Charger to sound like a TIE fighter. That's your plug-in right there. 

I'm in.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/18/22 11:31 a.m.
93EXCivic said:
Keith Tanner said:
93EXCivic said:
Keith Tanner said:

The "exhaust" is stupid. The "transmission" doesn't do anything but make it feel like you shifted by interrupting the acceleration. It's like Dodge tried to figure out what the most pointless aspects of ICE were and then replicated them.

I think it could be fun. I haven't experience that many electric cars but those things both sound like they would make the car more enjoyable.

You mean "more like what's familiar". You can get breaks in the acceleration by lifting off the accelerator and pressing it down again. Since Dodge hasn't come forward with any technical information about the trans, we can't tell if it's actually doing anything other than just putting a pause in it.

There are ICE cars that have fake exhaust notes pumped into the cabin, and most enthusiasts seem to think it's a dumb idea. This one, blaring 126 dB outside the car, is aimed at the "loud pipes save lives but I'll never wear a helmet" crowd. Might as well do a Harley Davidson cross-promotion, if Harley Davidson is in business this week.

Meh depends on how it is implemented. Personally I find electric cars I have driven pretty vanilla in feel. If this makes it make feel less like that, I am all for it but it also could easily feel gimmicky. If the "exhaust" is literally simulating a V8 noise then that is kind of lame. If it sounds like that Ford Mustang Mach E drift car, awesome. I want an electric car but I don't want it to feel like an electric car. I want it has analog as possible. Basically if it makes it more fun to drive, I don't care if it is a "gimmick".

Any high power EV is going to make high power EV noises. Even a vanilla EV sedan makes a whine under full acceleration but it's probably only audible inside the car. An EV that has performance levels of a Hellcat is going to make quite audible noises when deploying. They just won't be internal combustion noises. And it's unlikely to feel very vanilla.

It's like the difference between the amount of noise a Corolla makes versus an LFA :)

Can you describe what "analog" means? I know what it means technically, but how are you using it?

adam525i
adam525i GRM+ Memberand Dork
8/18/22 11:33 a.m.

In reply to GameboyRMH :

Maybe two speeds and call it a powerglide lol.

I wonder if the fake exhaust sounds will let you simulate putting the thing on a trans brake/two step before taking off using launch control. 

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
8/18/22 11:34 a.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

More like a bit old school ICE car. I don't want to feel like I am driving a computer which is exactly how every Tesla I have been in has felt.

BlueInGreen - Jon
BlueInGreen - Jon UltraDork
8/18/22 11:34 a.m.
GameboyRMH said:

...purely theatrical noisemaking system...

Pretty much describes how a lot of Hellcat owners use their cars in general, so in a way it makes sense. Ha

edit: Just so we're clear, I love the current Hellcat because it is such a theatrical noise and horsepower machine that you can use everyday. I'll take a wide body Challenger in bright orange, please.

NickD
NickD MegaDork
8/18/22 11:36 a.m.
Duke said:
NickD said:

Fake exhaust note and the shifting are dumb (kinda like the CVTs with simulated shifts), but the styling is pretty solid.

I absolutely despise fake or electronically enhanced exhaust notes for actual ICE vehicles.  For this it's completely unforgivable.

The Focus RS is still the worst offender for it's fake, contrived pop on decel that it has stock. There's no burbling leading into it, like you naturally get on decel, so you just get this weak brrrrrrr----pop. Also, really irritating at an autocross, because the pop sounds exactly like a cone strike as well, so you have to do a double-take every time someone lets off the throttle on one.

Tony Sestito
Tony Sestito UltimaDork
8/18/22 11:38 a.m.

In reply to Russian Warship, Go Berkeley Yourself :

I've seen plenty of posts from the "GaSoLiNe FoReVeR!!!1!!!@2#" crowd that are actively losing their crap about them building this car. I caught hell on other platforms for ditching the old ballast resistor ignition on my truck for something designed in the 21st Century by the same crowd. These people fear change of any kind, and think the pinnacle of Mopar technology left the barn in 1970. I mean, I'm sad that they are discontinuing the Hemi Challenger/Charger too, but they made enough of them that they won't be going away anytime soon. 

EV people are also mad because it's "The Mopar of EV's" . I find that entertaining. 

It's definitely a polarizing vehicle, but I dig it. Can't wait to test drive whatever this turns into. 

JG Pasterjak
JG Pasterjak Production/Art Director
8/18/22 11:38 a.m.

I don't know what the issue with "fake sound" is. There are no fake sounds. There are only sounds. This car makes cool ones, and likely has the ability to make other cool ones. It also goes fast, and looks pretty cool overall. I'm failing to see the downsides.

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
8/18/22 11:39 a.m.

In reply to adam525i :

The Taycan has a two-speed automatic: fast and faster. 

Ian F (Forum Supporter)
Ian F (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
8/18/22 11:40 a.m.
David S. Wallens said:

Wait, a two-door Charger? What's up with that? 

One comment I read is the roof line looks a lot like a 4 door car with the rear doors removed. 

Since the current Challenger is little more than a restyled Charger, I could see Dodge going back to the old-school way of offering the EV Charger with both 2 and 4 door options. In theory, it should simplify production. 

I agree, the fake exhaust noise is silly. But who knows... if it actually sells, who will be laughing?

In reply to JG Pasterjak :

My issue is the noise generator just adds unnecessary weight and complexity.

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia UltraDork
8/18/22 11:43 a.m.

Can we pick our fake engine noise .

12 cylinder Ferrari would be a nice add on :)

Ian F (Forum Supporter)
Ian F (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
8/18/22 11:48 a.m.
californiamilleghia said:

Can we pick our fake engine noise .

12 cylinder Ferrari would be a nice add on :)

Hmm... I'm sure the aftermarket could do that.  I'd imagine it just be a matter of replacing some sound files.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/18/22 11:52 a.m.
93EXCivic said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

More like a bit old school ICE car. I don't want to feel like I am driving a computer which is exactly how every Tesla I have been in has felt.

A lot of people equate noise with performance, so they don't feel they're getting performance if they don't get the same noise. Same with vibration. The triggers that tell you the car is doing something you're used to are gone. It might seem a little sterile but all that noise and fury wasn't actually DOING anything. And it's not a digital things, it's a feedback thing. The feedback is different.

Feedback through other things like steering, that's independent of the powertrain and that's up to the chassis engineers.

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
8/18/22 11:52 a.m.

Seriously, make mine sound like this–and I'll happily pay for the vinyl top.

 

gearheadE30
gearheadE30 Dork
8/18/22 11:59 a.m.

If those new gimmicks are the first step in making an EV more fun, then I'm all for it. The EVs I've driven are generally quite competent, but they are all so numbingly boring to drive enthusiastically. Fast does not make a car fun to me. (I'll argue they can be fun to drive economically in a video game kind of way, especially the ones with good interfaces showing how you're using regen and whatnot).

How do you make an EV sound exciting? The whine is at best just a whisper, and at worst is kind of annoying. There was an E-moto race before my normal IC dirt bike race last weekend, and the crowd quietly watched the E-moto guys and went nuts for the conventional bikes doing the exact same thing at basically the same speed a half hour later. Sound quality is pretty important.

Even the stunningly fast EVs I've been around feel slower than they are with their uninterrupted shove in the backside and general lack of drama. Same with an ICE/CVT combo - even if it's quicker with the CVT holding you between peak power and torque, the ones I've been around feel more engaging in manual mode because you're getting that sound change and physical perception of going through the gears.

The most fun EV I've driven was a (very slow) converted porsche 924 that still had a transmission. Sure, you could pick a gear and leave it there if you felt like it, but it gave the driver the option of being a bit more engaged in the process and broke up the otherwise linear continuous whine of the motor and electronics.

 

 

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/18/22 12:06 p.m.

Was thinking more about having the noisemaking system actually do some work in the cooling system and it could actually make some sense. It could run on the motor output shaft so the sound will change with revs like an ICE. After compressing the air it could go through a heat exchanger that could take heat to the cabin or battery pack if needed, then an intercooler to dump any leftover waste heat from compression, then an expansion valve which would produce cold low-pressure gas, then through heat exchangers for the battery pack and cabin heat pump (for AC mode), and then out the "exhaust." No doubt less efficient overall than just strapping a fan to a radiator (and it would need to have an auxiliary fan in the system for running while stopped) but it should offer more powerful cooling which could be handy for pre-cooling the pack for performance use.

Error404
Error404 HalfDork
8/18/22 12:07 p.m.

In reply to gearheadE30 :

So, cold efficiency taking the fun out of it? It looks like "Dodge" is trying to add gimmicks to find out which ones feel like the kinds of inefficiency that people actually like. Or, at least, drag it out until the "electric is even cooler" branding can percolate through the consumer gestalt. This is, perhaps, just a bridge to an even more efficient performance computer. 

03Panther
03Panther UberDork
8/18/22 12:11 p.m.

Fast and boring, is still boring. 
I have no issues with EV... been into them since the late 60s. Pretending they are eco-friendly, or viable options with our current supply of magic that comes out of the wall is another matter. 
But the sounds and effects just seem like sitting on the horsies on the carousel, wearing chaps and a hat yelling giddy up! 
probably still fun for pre-teens, and some that still are. 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/18/22 12:16 p.m.
gearheadE30 said:

If those new gimmicks are the first step in making an EV more fun, then I'm all for it. The EVs I've driven are generally quite competent, but they are all so numbingly boring to drive enthusiastically. Fast does not make a car fun to me. (I'll argue they can be fun to drive economically in a video game kind of way, especially the ones with good interfaces showing how you're using regen and whatnot).

How do you make an EV sound exciting? The whine is at best just a whisper, and at worst is kind of annoying. There was an E-moto race before my normal IC dirt bike race last weekend, and the crowd quietly watched the E-moto guys and went nuts for the conventional bikes doing the exact same thing at basically the same speed a half hour later. Sound quality is pretty important.

Even the stunningly fast EVs I've been around feel slower than they are with their uninterrupted shove in the backside and general lack of drama. Same with an ICE/CVT combo - even if it's quicker with the CVT holding you between peak power and torque, the ones I've been around feel more engaging in manual mode because you're getting that sound change and physical perception of going through the gears.

The most fun EV I've driven was a (very slow) converted porsche 924 that still had a transmission. Sure, you could pick a gear and leave it there if you felt like it, but it gave the driver the option of being a bit more engaged in the process and broke up the otherwise linear continuous whine of the motor and electronics.

 

 

Basically, it's the flaws you're looking for :) The bumps in the power curve, the vibration, the noise - all the stuff the ICE engineers are trying to get rid of. Other than the performance variants where these flaws are exaggerated, the EV driving experience is actually the idealized ICE driving experience from a powertrain engineer standpoint. Smooth, quiet, flat torque curve - we've been heading that way for a while. It's why companies like BMW are piping simulated engine noise into their interiors in the performance variants already, because only the performance buyers want all that.

I went to the first COTA race of the hybrid era, when everyone was bemoaning the fact that the cars were too quiet. I thought it was fascinating because you could hear all the stuff happening on the car other than a blaring exhaust, such as the whine of the electronics shuffling power around. Same with LMP cars. Heck, even the monstrous 956 just makes a muted whoosh noise on track. It's a different performance signifier, but it's there. It's like the difference between the pneumatic noises of a turbo versus the bellow of a big block. We mock people that install BOV sound emulators but is this any different?

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia UltraDork
8/18/22 12:18 p.m.

Can someone post a picture of a bicycle wheel with playing cards in the spokes !

is this what they are trying to reproduce ?

 I know it's stupid, but I do like the idea of "4 on the floor" shifter , even if all it does is change the RPM sound files  . ......Hahaha

DjGreggieP
DjGreggieP HalfDork
8/18/22 12:26 p.m.

I wonder how much of the 'exhaust' and 'shifting' is because Dodge is trying to be the LAST one to let go of ICE and aiming at the demographic that will 'never buy an EV and I'll take my ICE to my grave!' by keeping it familiar enough to them while probably having a setting to turn off the shifting or turning down the exhaust.

I like the way it looks. And it'll probably be on the list of cars I'll look at for a future daily (depending on price point, range) after I pay off other debts and get a trailer purchased. 

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
8/18/22 12:28 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:
93EXCivic said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

More like a bit old school ICE car. I don't want to feel like I am driving a computer which is exactly how every Tesla I have been in has felt.

A lot of people equate noise with performance, so they don't feel they're getting performance if they don't get the same noise. Same with vibration. The triggers that tell you the car is doing something you're used to are gone. It might seem a little sterile but all that noise and fury wasn't actually DOING anything. And it's not a digital things, it's a feedback thing. The feedback is different.

Feedback through other things like steering, that's independent of the powertrain and that's up to the chassis engineers.

IMO in a street car, I'd rather a car feel fast and be a bit slower then actually be fast and feel sterile. The Model 3 is only fast EV I have driven and it was fun punching it once or twice but after that there was nothing about the drivetrain that made me want to drive it for fun.

I am a chassis engineer so I get that steering feedback is different. I fully expect that to not be be brilliant in a Dodge.

gearheadE30
gearheadE30 Dork
8/18/22 12:32 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

You are right, same with a DCT vs. a manual on the track and all the other age-old enthusiast arguments where flaws somehow equate to character when the right combination of flaws ends up in one place. I just haven't quite figured out how EVs can make the jump from "effective and idealized" to "effective and engaging" that would make me actually consider buying one for reasons other than ostensibly "being green" over other competing options on the market (cars or dirt bikes). That's why I think Dodge's ideas are interesting, even if they end up being a miss. The average car buyer doesn't care about (and probably won't even notice) this stuff - it's something different being tried, specifically aimed at enthusiasts.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
8/18/22 12:35 p.m.
JG Pasterjak said:

I don't know what the issue with "fake sound" is. There are no fake sounds. There are only sounds. This car makes cool ones, and likely has the ability to make other cool ones. It also goes fast, and looks pretty cool overall. I'm failing to see the downsides.

Because fake is fake.

What's better, real stone or that fake crap they stick on every fast food franchise these days?

Natural houseplants or plastic ones?

Real chocolate or artificial "chocolatey flavor"?

The joyful noise of a real ICE wailing at full song comes from the listener's appreciation of the engineering wizardry that created a gestalt of carefully designed and lovingly assembled machinery operating together in perfect harmony to create power and speed.

It doesn't come from Track 6 on a sound effects record.

 

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
8/18/22 12:42 p.m.

In reply to Duke :

Have they actually said it is going to sound like a V8? 126 dB is stupid loud though.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
8/18/22 12:55 p.m.
93EXCivic said:

In reply to Duke :

Have they actually said it is going to sound like a V8? 126 dB is stupid loud though.

What else would they make it sound like?

Don't put liquid smoke and caramel coloring on tofu and tell me it's bacon.

[edit] I'm good with tofu. I'm not good with fake bacon. 
 

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
8/18/22 12:58 p.m.

They just played a sample on the news I am watching.  It actually sounds a bit "electrically" V8. 

Not pure imitation, and I would suspect far more obnoxious than the IC engine at high volume.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/18/22 12:59 p.m.
californiamilleghia said:

Can someone post a picture of a bicycle wheel with playing cards in the spokes !

is this what they are trying to reproduce ?

That's exactly what it is, and I'd wager that every single one of us did that as kids :)

Asphalt_Gundam
Asphalt_Gundam Reader
8/18/22 1:03 p.m.

Yes Sir, I would like the Enthusiast Pak option for $1. What does it come with?

Well Mr. Its a fantastic option for your EV Charger. You get one 2021 model year Hellcat crate engine that bolts right up to your Dual Clutch 8 speed. You just remove the electric motor and install the Hellcat. We've made it very easy to swap and can be performed in less than 2 hours!

.......Dodge things.....

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
8/18/22 1:03 p.m.

In reply to Duke :

I was thinking something like that Mach E drift car.

To use the food analogy, steak is awesome but done right a vegetarian meal can also be awesome and it is better for you.

RevRico
RevRico UltimaDork
8/18/22 1:05 p.m.

I'm more leery of a Dodge electric vehicle, just because all the dodge Chrysler whatever products I've had have had horrid electrical gremlins even from new. 

But if you're going to pump in a fake exhaust noise, let me pick it based on mood. Tie fighter, jetsons, someone screaming "get out of the berkeleying way". 

 

Schmidlap
Schmidlap Dork
8/18/22 1:27 p.m.

Have they actually said that the transmission will just be simulated shifts and not a real transmission? The Jeep Magneto 2.0 concept from the Jeep Safari this year had a 800V EV system (just like this concept) run through a 6 speed manual. That concept had 625hp and 850 lb-ft of torque so it probably would have been fine without a transmission.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
8/18/22 1:44 p.m.

In reply to 93EXCivic :

I don't have a problem with a vegetarian meal.

But 'vegetarian steak' is awful.

I also don't have a problem with shifting, if it is real EV shifting for an engineering reason.

 

RadBarchetta
RadBarchetta New Reader
8/18/22 1:56 p.m.
JG Pasterjak said:

I don't know what the issue with "fake sound" is. There are no fake sounds. There are only sounds. This car makes cool ones, and likely has the ability to make other cool ones. It also goes fast, and looks pretty cool overall. I'm failing to see the downsides.

"Fake sound" meaning a sound not produced by the engine, but by other, artificial means. 

This concept's fake sound initially made me roll my eyes but the more I read about how it's done, the more I'm intrigued. Apparently it's not just a speaker pointed out the back of the car. They take the electric motor whine and pipe it through... something... maybe a resonance chamber, maybe a electronic signal processor, maybe some of both? To create that sound. Not unlike using a muffler or resonators to change a car's exhaust note. Or not unlike a guitarist using effects pedals. 

It's kind of interesting and I'd like to learn more about it... hint, hint...

The transmission has a real purpose, too. Electric motors produce instant torque at 0 rpm, but eventually that torque starts to drop off. The transmission could be helping to keep the motor in its optimal range. Again, would love to read more about it...

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
8/18/22 2:07 p.m.

In reply to Duke :

To each their own. For me, as long as it makes it more fun I don't care if it is "fake." However if it does just end up feeling super gimmicky then yeah, it will suck.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
8/18/22 2:21 p.m.

In reply to RadBarchetta :

I don't know what the Mach-E drift car sounds like.

If it is actual mechanical sound from the vehicle itself that is physically / acoustically manipulated via passive means, I have much less objection.

But the moment electronics or active amplification enters the equation, forget it.

 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/18/22 2:23 p.m.
93EXCivic said:

In reply to Duke :

I was thinking something like that Mach E drift car.

To use the food analogy, steak is awesome but done right a vegetarian meal can also be awesome and it is better for you.

This thing will make noises akin to the drift car and for the same reasons, without an amplification system. 

SV reX
SV reX MegaDork
8/18/22 3:55 p.m.

Lots of wrong guesses in this thread. 
 

What Dodge has actually said is that it will have an exhaust system with a performance sound similar to the SRT Hellcat.

To me, that sounds like a couple hundred pounds of useless tubing hung under the car so it can have "tail pipes", and FAKE sounds. 
 

As a person trained in theatrical design, I find some amusement in it. Even the fake sounds. Hell, I was piping fake sounds into theatres 45 years ago. 
 

As a car guy, no thanks. 
 

Tesla offers electronic whoopie cushions that make a fart noise when you sit in the passenger seat.  Goofy. 
 

SV reX
SV reX MegaDork
8/18/22 4:00 p.m.

User experience matters. 
 

If any of us could actually SEE what is going on every time we step into an elevator, we would UTTERLY FREAK OUT!! 
 

So, I can see WHY they are using fake sounds (because their customers want noise).   Still don't like it. And I doubt that "horsey noises" would have made the automotive user experience better in 1915.
 

I also think the "perfecting the ICE experience" has a risk. Faster?  Yep. Better?  It depends...

A boring car is a boring car, and user experience MATTERS. 

STM317
STM317 PowerDork
8/18/22 4:31 p.m.

You can hear plenty of the "exhaust" note from 7:35-10:00 in this video:

 

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia UltraDork
8/18/22 4:46 p.m.

Sir, can I interest you in the widely popular Lucas option ?

it gives you all the nostalgic pleasures of the Lucas Electrics of old , 

Power windows that stick open in the rain ,  misfires with sudden deceleration , blinkers that will not turn off , those lovely smells of plastic wiring melting , 

there are over 25 extras in the Package L-1, and another 25 in Package L-3.......

ohh and there is a $9.95 a month fee for the Lucas butt warmer option , 

Drive with confidence , Drive Lucas

03Panther
03Panther UberDork
8/18/22 4:47 p.m.
SV reX said:
 And I doubt that "horsey noises" would have made the automotive user experience better in 1915.

Oooh! That's a good one!

'Course, for all the good and the bad of the "good ol' days", folks in 1915 did not expect someone else to provide them with distracting entertainment 100% of their life!!!

BlueInGreen - Jon
BlueInGreen - Jon UltraDork
8/18/22 4:58 p.m.
 
SV reX said:
 And I doubt that "horsey noises" would have made the automotive user experience better in 1915.


heh...

J.A. Ackley
J.A. Ackley Senior Editor
8/18/22 6:20 p.m.
BlueInGreen - Jon said:
 
SV reX said:
 And I doubt that "horsey noises" would have made the automotive user experience better in 1915.


heh...

"Man, this new carriage smell is terrible. It's nothing like that old horse-drawn carriage aroma." ;-)

madmrak351
madmrak351 Reader
8/18/22 8:29 p.m.

Maybe it’s just a pedestrian safety warning for those who forgot their hearing aids or have their ear buds cranked up too high........

03Panther
03Panther UberDork
8/19/22 12:21 a.m.

In reply to madmrak351 :

Don't need it. We have the Darwin Awards for them...

maschinenbau
maschinenbau GRM+ Memberand UberDork
8/19/22 8:51 a.m.

I really love that floating upper grill structure. Looks like the air can pass straight through and over the hood while maintaining a bold musclecar style, hopefully proving you don't need dorkly Tesla styling to build an efficient EV.

Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
8/19/22 9:35 a.m.

What I want to know is if the EV makes it more of a heavy pig, or less?

 

Put me firmly in the "exhaust noise is stupid" camp for this.  Willing to check out the shifting, though.

Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter)
Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
8/19/22 9:52 a.m.

I like the idea of a better soundtrack  for an EV. The mild whine really doesn't  invoke excitement. I'm surprised  that the aftermarket  hasnt already been offerring different  sounds for the cars already on the market. Adding a transmission make sense to me. Electric  motors have torque at low rpm.  Maybe 6 speeds aren't needed but 2 or 3 to play with would certainly  add to the interaction.  

As mentioned several times already, interaction is key. Cars are an extention of ourselves and evoke an emotional response. Most electrics are dull, lifeless appliances that don't invite you to drive them because they are enjoyable, you drive them only when you have too.

This Dodge may be a step forward for EV's , the styling is the best I've seen in an electric car. What the production car looks like in the end remains to be seen along with the driving experience  and price. 

Sadly I'm betting on a car few can afford and typical over complex systems that reduce reliability. 

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/19/22 12:59 p.m.

So it sounds like a pretty mean vacuum cleaner...

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/19/22 1:08 p.m.

Less gimmicks, more gear noise. Behold all-natural EV sounds in this video:

 

 

msterbeau
msterbeau New Reader
8/19/22 1:09 p.m.

I was hoping electric would also mean relatively quite.  Apparently Dodge is too busy being the infantile car brand to notice there are lot of people, even car people, that hate the loud, juvenile products they are making.  

msterbeau
msterbeau New Reader
8/19/22 1:12 p.m.

In reply to David S. Wallens :

I'm going to hear these coming through my neighborhood and instantly reach for my lightsaber...

msterbeau
msterbeau New Reader
8/19/22 1:14 p.m.

In reply to madmrak351 :

Pedestrians hearing it is good.  The whole neighborhood?  Not so much....

dalek
dalek New Reader
8/19/22 1:35 p.m.

So this campaign about internal combustion engines are evil -- V8s twice as much -- and electrics are the way of the future, but in the end of the day it is all about having the V8 experience while saying "but I am thinking about the enviroment." This reminds me of the fake hood scoops and turbo whistle sounds (which never worked, I tried in my turbo car). Of the distressed designer pants "that gives you that rough look associated with hard work" (I should have saved that ad).

 

What is next? Something to make it shake like a V8? Plastic fake airfilterbox and top of a V8 under the hood?

Duke
Duke MegaDork
8/19/22 2:37 p.m.
msterbeau said:

Apparently Dodge is too busy cashing checks from strong sales of a profitable platform whose engineering was paid off long ago to care that there are lot of people, even car people, that hate the loud, juvenile products they are making.  

FTFY.

 

Schmidlap
Schmidlap Dork
8/19/22 3:51 p.m.
msterbeau said:

I was hoping electric would also mean relatively quite.  Apparently Dodge is too busy being the infantile car brand to notice there are lot of people, even car people, that hate the loud, juvenile products they are making.  

This is why Chrysler exists. Chrysler will take this platform, put a "sophisticated" body on it with a luxurious interior, throw self driving and sound deadening at it to insulate the driver from the road and market towards the Audi/Tesla/Cadillac crowd. Dodge is jumping up and down screaming "why can't we just have fun?"

Caperix
Caperix New Reader
8/19/22 6:15 p.m.

As stupid as fake exhaust sounds I can understand why dodge is testing it on a concept car.  As ev's move from the appliance categories to ones that people spend a lot of money on to personalize.  And what is one of the first mods done? Exhaust.  There are some strange issues with what noises an ev can produce, tesla was forced to remove the fart noise from the pedestrian warning tone.

I'm not sure what the aftermarket is going to do to support ev's, that's a big industry that may find its options on new vehicles limited.

I also wonder if they plan on offering two versions of this, one electric & one with the hurricane turbo 6 cylinder.  Have they said if it a skateboard chassis?

GIRTHQUAKE
GIRTHQUAKE SuperDork
8/20/22 11:48 a.m.
Tony Sestito said:


-It makes similar sounds as the car in The Wraith

DUDE, It looks like the Wraith SO MUCH

As for the noisemakers and shifting- as long as it's an option and it helps get people to feel okay making the switch, I'm perfectly fine with it.

wspohn
wspohn SuperDork
8/20/22 12:14 p.m.

As I read through this thread, it struck me that this car was alike a carnival ride for little kids....then I realized that it was exactly that, but for big wealthy kids.  And also that this is nothing new - almost all of the Vipers, some of the Corvettes and a lot of Italian performance cars have always been expensive carnival bumper car substitutes and there is nothing wrong with that even though it comes across like a comic book in a world based on more serious literature.

To each his own.  I bet that we'll ass be surprised at how many they sell if they do get around to offering this sort of thing - there are a lot of people out there that don't seem to have moved on from about 10 years old emotionally.

I'd suggest to the manufacturers that they build in some flexibility with their sound making gear so you can set it for Tie fighter or whatever floats your boat on a given day.

My only reservation is about being T boned by some aging 'kid' when he is playing with his expensive sound maker in traffic while I am just trying to get somewhere.

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
8/20/22 1:10 p.m.
Jerry said:

It needs downloadable sounds.  Jetson's flying car, Luke Skywalker's landspeeder or maybe the Millenium Falcon?

I'd want a couple ridiculous, inappropriate sounds. Like an air cooled VW with the stock exhaust. A circa 1990 hit and miss engine. Maybe some dude beatboxing fake engine noise. And a squeaking hamster wheel.

And yeah, definitely the TIE fighter option.

Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter)
Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
8/20/22 7:00 p.m.

I found the new pistol grip for the shifter, because eletric Mopar.

03Panther
03Panther UberDork
8/21/22 8:17 p.m.

In reply to wspohn :

I used to get a big kick out of setting on the carousel horsey hollering "getty up" 

But not since I was a wee lad, knee high to a grasshopper. 
 

I don't get the appeal of an electric cars with pretend ICE sounds. 
now funny stuff, like a tie fighter, I can see it. 
The squeaky hamster wheel is my fav. suggestion yet!
 

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia UltraDork
8/21/22 8:52 p.m.

Ok new idea . 

Electronic hub caps , well they are really just LED screens , but you can have Halibrand wheels , Moon discs , Mini-lites etc

Or a hamster on the squeaky wheel :)

Driven5
Driven5 UberDork
8/23/22 2:06 p.m.

I almost want one just from the amount of completely baseless vitriol being directed at it here.

I see the 'jump to conclusion' mats are out in full force too. Pity.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
8/23/22 4:24 p.m.
Driven5 said:

I almost want one just from the amount of completely baseless vitriol being directed at it here.

I see the 'jump to conclusion' mats are out in full force too. Pity.

I love the car itself and I'd buy one in a heartbeat... subject to every post I've made in this thread.

 

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
8/24/22 10:42 a.m.

A related thought.

A good chunk of an ICE car's shape is dictated by the drivetrain–specifically the engine and cooling system.

How will the EV skateboard dictate the shape of future cars? We're seeing some of that now–like the frunks–but how do you see designers and engineers taking advantage of that newfound freedom? 

Driven5
Driven5 UberDork
8/24/22 12:15 p.m.

In reply to David S. Wallens :

Freedom is an illusion. Those designed for kinetic efficiency will look like eggs, while those designed for volumetric efficiency will look like loaves of bread.

03Panther
03Panther UberDork
8/24/22 12:56 p.m.

In reply to David S. Wallens :

Don't know that freedom is the correct word for it, but the target market will prolly not allow much in the way of radical changes, just in her name of practicality. Sad, 'cause I'd love to see some alternative packaging. 
Out of several hundred vehicles, over 45+ years, I've only bought new a few times. And only 4-5 years old a dozen. Prolly never be able to afford a new one the rest of my life, so I can only have an outsiders opinion. Marketing could care less!!!

Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
8/24/22 1:13 p.m.
californiamilleghia said:

Ok new idea . 

Electronic hub caps , well they are really just LED screens , but you can have Halibrand wheels , Moon discs , Mini-lites etc

Or a hamster on the squeaky wheel :)

Been done, for several years now actually.

https://lumencycle.com/a/s/products/midnight-rider-customizable-led-bike-spoke-lights

I've seen em on trucks before, never in real life though.  

te72
te72 HalfDork
8/26/22 10:28 a.m.

I'm late to the party, but EV sounds versus ICE sounds is kinda like comparing Daft Punk to Led Zepplin to me. Sure, you can turn either of them up to make lots of noise, but... which one do you really want to hear?

Driven5
Driven5 UberDork
8/26/22 10:45 a.m.

In reply to te72 :

Based on the garbage sound coming out of most turned-up modern ICE exhausts, I think I might actually want to take my chances finding out what happens with more EV sounds getting turned-up.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
8/26/22 12:09 p.m.
te72 said:

I'm late to the party, but EV sounds versus ICE sounds is kinda like comparing Daft Punk to Led Zepplin to me. Sure, you can turn either of them up to make lots of noise, but... which one do you really want to hear?

Is Daft Punk supposed to be the bad option here?

te72
te72 HalfDork
8/26/22 3:35 p.m.

In reply to Driven5 :

I'm on board with the silly sound brigade, it might make autocross a bit safer, if nothing else. Go to take a drink of water and have a Tesla 3 fly by you having no idea anything was even happening (it's windy here most of the time) isn't a fun experience. Need *something* coming out of them...

te72
te72 HalfDork
8/26/22 3:37 p.m.

In reply to 93EXCivic :

Compared to Zepplin, yes. Daft Punk isn't bad, but I don't think people are still gonna listen to them in 50+ years. In 2070, people will probably still be rocking Led Zepplin II.

DjGreggieP
DjGreggieP HalfDork
8/26/22 3:48 p.m.

In reply to te72 :

You missed the uproar when Daft Punk decided to retire. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

On topic tho, is there any word on things worth discussing on this? Price, range, projected availability (It could be sub $30K and have a 400 mile range but they are only making 50 of them)?

Caperix
Caperix New Reader
8/26/22 6:50 p.m.

It sounds like it will be available with both gas & electric power trains.  So I would not expect range to be as good as a dedicated ev platform.  Time will tell what version sells better, I would think the ev version should get some fleet sales from law enforcement.

SV reX
SV reX MegaDork
8/26/22 7:57 p.m.

We've made a lot of noise about fake sounds- I actually see the virtue (and potential) in this. 
 

The one we've totally skipped over is exhaust pipes. Exhaust pipes??  Why???

That one seems entirely inexplicable and ridiculous to me. 

STM317
STM317 PowerDork
8/26/22 8:49 p.m.
SV reX said:

We've made a lot of noise about fake sounds- I actually see the virtue (and potential) in this. 
 

The one we've totally skipped over is exhaust pipes. Exhaust pipes??  Why???

That one seems entirely inexplicable and ridiculous to me. 

It sounds like they are actually exhausting air through an exit in the rear of the vehicle (seen in the center of the bottom edge of the rear bumper):

Extreme close up:

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/2022-Dodge-Charger-Daytona-SRT-eMuscle-EV-_18.jpg

It's design is patent pending, so I can't find any specific images or info. There's a chance that it serves some functional purpose I suppose (like ducting battery cooling air out of the vehicle or reducing drag or something) but it might also just be a way to amplify the noises they want this thing to make. During the unveiling, the CEO of Dodge made a point to mention that being loud and sounding aggressive were very important to the Dodge brand and it was prioritized in designing this car.

"The Fast Lane’s Andre Smirnov was able to see the new Charger concept in person. He reports that the only evidence of the Fratzonic exhaust system was a trumpet below the Charger’s brakelights, almost the entire width of the car. It looks similar to an exhaust exit, but it is attached to a sound-making chamber in the car.

Smirnov questioned the team at Dodge about how the Fratzonic chambered exhaust system works. He learned that it actually pushes air out of the “exhaust” trumpet to carry the vehicles performance sounds. These sounds vary depending on throttle position, car speed, and several other inputs from the vehicle’s computer."

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
8/27/22 2:59 p.m.
te72 said:

In reply to 93EXCivic :

Compared to Zepplin, yes. Daft Punk isn't bad, but I don't think people are still gonna listen to them in 50+ years. In 2070, people will probably still be rocking Led Zepplin II.

I'll still be listening to Daft Punk in 50 years if I am still above the ground. Tbh I listen to more Daft Punk then Led Zepplin. I like both but a lot of Led Zepplin is soooo overplayed

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/28/22 8:22 a.m.
te72 said:

In reply to 93EXCivic :

Compared to Zepplin, yes. Daft Punk isn't bad, but I don't think people are still gonna listen to them in 50+ years. In 2070, people will probably still be rocking Led Zepplin II.

A nonzero number of people still listen to Kraftwerk (they are still touring and releasing albums!), and I would classify Daft Punk as the Kraftwerk of the next generation.

 

On commercially successful albums such as Autobahn (1974), Trans-Europe Express (1977), The Man-Machine (1978), and Computer World (1981), Kraftwerk developed a self-described "robot pop" style that combined electronic music with pop melodies, sparse arrangements, and repetitive rhythms, while adopting a stylized image including matching suits

 

I am not disagreeing with you re: various popularities, but this is an interesting parallel.

porschenut
porschenut HalfDork
8/28/22 9:49 a.m.

So it simulates shifting, but no real gearbox?  Does it have a fake clutch pedal and shifter?  Does it simulate a properly done heel and tow downshift and jerk if not done smoothly?  Does it make grinding noises if you shift without the clutch and don't do it right?  Or is it just another version of stick on woodgrain on the side of the car?

te72
te72 HalfDork
9/1/22 10:27 a.m.
93EXCivic said:
te72 said:

In reply to 93EXCivic :

Compared to Zepplin, yes. Daft Punk isn't bad, but I don't think people are still gonna listen to them in 50+ years. In 2070, people will probably still be rocking Led Zepplin II.

I'll still be listening to Daft Punk in 50 years if I am still above the ground. Tbh I listen to more Daft Punk then Led Zepplin. I like both but a lot of Led Zepplin is soooo overplayed

That's fair. Zepplin does get a lot of airplay, still, but I don't listen to radio around here. I guess the point I was trying to make was that I'm not really big on songs that drag on without really going anywhere. I have nothing at all against electronic music, have been listening to it for nearly 30 years, but if someone else is more likely to sample your songs than cover them, well... it's probably not something I'm going to be into. Daft Punk was just the first example to come to mind after I've recently listened to a couple of their albums.

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