Mazda Touts New Inline-Six Engine

Colin
By Colin Wood
Nov 11, 2020 | Mazda, Inline-six

On November 9, Mazda released its second-quarter results, as well as upcoming plans for the third quarter. Naturally, these sorts of documents aren’t usually very exciting, but there was one slide that did have some interesting information.

Titled “Investment for raising brand value (Technology/Products): Foundation building (next 2 years),” the slide briefly detailed the development of a longitudinally mounted “high power/low CO2” inline-six engine.

We have been aware of this upcoming engine for a little while now, though it is interesting to now see it in the flesh. As well, the presentation points out that the new straight-six will available in gasoline, diesel and Skyactiv-X versions—though market availability is not yet clearly mentioned.

On a slightly related note, Mazda also confirms a plan to further expand its use of the rotary engine as a range extender for future electric models.

At any rate, this presentation does show us that Mazda is serious about its inline-six engine, though its production debut hasn’t yet been announced.

In the meantime, we’ll let the rest of the class speculate what this new powerplant will be placed into, and you can even read the whole presentation for yourself if you like. (The good stuff is on slide 21.)

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Comments
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NickD
NickD UltimaDork
11/11/20 1:19 p.m.

Rumor is also that this new engine and the new Mazda6 chassis will be purchased from Mazda by Toyota for the next-gen Lexus IS. Seems likely considering Toyota's recent trend of farming out engine development and Toyota selling the Mazda2 as a Scion/Toyota.

frenchyd
frenchyd PowerDork
11/11/20 1:22 p.m.

In reply to NickD :

Six in a row is the way to go. 

Colin Wood
Colin Wood Associate Editor
11/11/20 1:22 p.m.

In reply to NickD :

That sounds interesting. Especially since that would mean Toyota would be selling two cars with inline-sixes built by another car company.

NickD
NickD UltimaDork
11/11/20 1:29 p.m.

In reply to Colin Wood :

FCA development money for the Fiata is partially why the ND is so good, so Toyota money towards the Mazda6 ought to result in a pretty good car as well. Funny, because Mazda is pushing the "premium car at a regular car price" experience, which would make it undercut the Lexus.

ultraclyde (Forum Supporter)
ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
11/11/20 1:35 p.m.
NickD said:

In reply to Colin Wood :

FCA development money for the Fiata is partially why the ND is so good, so Toyota money towards the Mazda6 ought to result in a pretty good car as well. Funny, because Mazda is pushing the "premium car at a regular car price" experience, which would make it undercut the Lexus.

I wonder if the Toyota people have enough brand faith in Lexus to believe they wouldn't be cross-shopped? I do suspect that Mazda buyers and Lexus buyers are different demographics, but banking on Lexus's brand prestige seems a bit optimistic.

spacecadet (Forum Supporter)
spacecadet (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
11/11/20 1:43 p.m.
ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) said:
NickD said:

In reply to Colin Wood :

FCA development money for the Fiata is partially why the ND is so good, so Toyota money towards the Mazda6 ought to result in a pretty good car as well. Funny, because Mazda is pushing the "premium car at a regular car price" experience, which would make it undercut the Lexus.

I wonder if the Toyota people have enough brand faith in Lexus to believe they wouldn't be cross-shopped? I do suspect that Mazda buyers and Lexus buyers are different demographics, but banking on Lexus's brand prestige seems a bit optimistic.

they're already close in price, this battle has already begun honestly.

the CX-5 and CX-9 already play in the price brackets where the RX and NX SUV's exist. and the new CX-30 is definitely a direct competitor to the UX.

Mazda sells 2/3 of the vehicles Lexus does, but Lexus has higher margins.

Even if it hurts Lexus sales, i think it feeds into the company goal of building more exciting cars.

Mazda financing is also now underwritten by Toyota financial instead of Chase bank(which was for over 5 years). So every new Mazda financed/leased through the MFR is actually financed/leased at a benefit to Toyota's bottom line.

I don't know if Mazda dealer floorplanning has changed, but if that's also now under toyota.. even more money to their bottom line..

I honestly wonder if Toyota won't buy the company out completely in the next 10 years.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
11/11/20 1:52 p.m.
spacecadet (Forum Supporter) said

Mazda financing is also now underwritten by Toyota financial instead of Chase bank(which was for over 5 years). So every new Mazda financed/leased through the MFR is actually financed/leased at a benefit to Toyota's bottom line.

That... is EXTREMELY interesting, given that for a long time the only profitable part of GM was GMAC.

 

spacecadet (Forum Supporter)
spacecadet (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
11/11/20 2:00 p.m.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
spacecadet (Forum Supporter) said

Mazda financing is also now underwritten by Toyota financial instead of Chase bank(which was for over 5 years). So every new Mazda financed/leased through the MFR is actually financed/leased at a benefit to Toyota's bottom line.

That... is EXTREMELY interesting, given that for a long time the only profitable part of GM was GMAC.

annouced the move over a year ago

I still keep in semi close contact with my friends at the Mazda dealer where I worked from 2014-2017 and I watch Mazda's stock price out of a general curiousity.

I try to keep my fingers on the pulse of the brand.

ultraclyde (Forum Supporter)
ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
11/11/20 2:05 p.m.

Dang. That is interesting. Perhaps purchase Mazda and make it the performance brand for the company?

mtn (Forum Supporter)
mtn (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
11/11/20 4:26 p.m.
ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) said:
NickD said:

In reply to Colin Wood :

FCA development money for the Fiata is partially why the ND is so good, so Toyota money towards the Mazda6 ought to result in a pretty good car as well. Funny, because Mazda is pushing the "premium car at a regular car price" experience, which would make it undercut the Lexus.

I wonder if the Toyota people have enough brand faith in Lexus to believe they wouldn't be cross-shopped? I do suspect that Mazda buyers and Lexus buyers are different demographics, but banking on Lexus's brand prestige seems a bit optimistic.

They have the prestige. For the next 1-2 generations, unless they have a real turd that kills their reputation (unlikely), they'll be fine. 

spacecadet (Forum Supporter)
spacecadet (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
11/11/20 5:00 p.m.

In reply to mtn (Forum Supporter) :

you're not wrong, it was expensive, but my parents have been to the lexus dealer for work on their RX450h they got used last year.

they get treated like gold and as such they will continue to go back.

 

einy (Forum Supporter)
einy (Forum Supporter) Dork
11/11/20 5:26 p.m.

Mazda really needs to improve the customer experience.  While in the replacement car market last August, I visited two Mazda dealers (new 6’s), one Lexus dealer (used IS300), and two Honda dealers (new Civic Si’s).  Honda dealers were both really product based in their approach while applying no sales pressure, Lexus was very laid back with focus on tge customer experience, while Mazda neither dealer cared about product, only “let’s talk numbers, let’s talk payments”.  Just off putting.  My take away is if Mazda wants to target an uplevel buyer, change the operating mantra on the sales floor.

End of the experience, a Si ended up being the choice, but I really liked both the 6 and the IS.  Any one would have been a good choice for me.

mxandcx5
mxandcx5 New Reader
11/12/20 4:08 p.m.

If this goes in the 6, I really hope they are able to shrink the overall dimensions of the car. I would love to see them rewind the clock and debut the next generation with proportions similar to an e46 sedan, which I consider to be the ideal sedan size. Heck, the 3 is now just as bigger than they were- I'll take mine in a 3.

Brett_Murphy (Ex-Patrón)
Brett_Murphy (Ex-Patrón) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/12/20 4:56 p.m.

The exhaust manifold... thing? on two of the engines is giving me a headache. 

dxman92
dxman92 Dork
11/12/20 10:53 p.m.

Now it just needs a six on the floor to row your own gears.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/12/20 11:04 p.m.
Brett_Murphy (Ex-Patrón) said:

The exhaust manifold... thing? on two of the engines is giving me a headache. 

Looks like they have turbos on them. Does that help with the headache?

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
11/13/20 8:46 a.m.
NickD said:

Rumor is also that this new engine and the new Mazda6 chassis will be purchased from Mazda by Toyota for the next-gen Lexus IS. Seems likely considering Toyota's recent trend of farming out engine development and Toyota selling the Mazda2 as a Scion/Toyota.

That is interesting. Mazda and Toyota are opening a plant together here in Huntsville Al which sure makes it look like they are willing to work together pretty closely.

Snrub
Snrub HalfDork
11/13/20 9:09 a.m.

A few of years ago there was a lot of discussion about how manufacturers were no longer creating any new ICE designs and moving exclusively to electric. We've seen a bunch of new designs since then.

I wonder where the center of gravity is in a turbo hot-V vs. turbo inline-6 engine?

Has anyone had any experience with these newer mild-hybrid 48V systems? They seem like they might make some sense.

Regarding the sharing of products/technology with Toyota, it probably doesn't make sense for large manufacturers to produce a bunch of custom low volume designs/products/technologies. If Mazda is a manufacturer of niche products/components it makes sense to outsource/co-develop with them. Look at where Toyota is outsourcing to others; Supra, 86, Yaris, IS. These are minor products in declining sectors.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/13/20 9:34 a.m.
Snrub said:

I wonder where the center of gravity is in a turbo hot-V vs. turbo inline-6 engine?

Assuming the same bore and stroke, I have to think it's lower in the V because the engine is less tall overall. The turbo doesn't necessarily sit that much lower on the inline because it has to stay close to the ports.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
11/13/20 9:42 a.m.
Brett_Murphy (Ex-Patrón) said:

The exhaust manifold... thing? on two of the engines is giving me a headache. 

It's a close coupled cat mounted under the turbo.

Snrub
Snrub HalfDork
11/13/20 11:59 a.m.
Keith Tanner said:
Snrub said:

I wonder where the center of gravity is in a turbo hot-V vs. turbo inline-6 engine?

Assuming the same bore and stroke, I have to think it's lower in the V because the engine is less tall overall. The turbo doesn't necessarily sit that much lower on the inline because it has to stay close to the ports.

That makes me wonder why they went with an I6 in this application. If this is to be a car with good dynamics, having the engine weight further back and with a lower center of gravity would strike me as important. Hot-Vs have slightly less plumbing distance between the cylinders and turbo, which is slightly more efficient.

It's interesting that Mercedes replaced their V6 with the I6, but it sounds like their reasons were mostly manufacturing/cost related.

These 48V mild hybrid systems are probably enough to power a car in many coasting/low load type scenarios.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
11/13/20 12:27 p.m.

I'd think the V engine is higher, for various reasons, but it's easiest to visualize with simple analysis.  60 degree V6s are not significantly shorter in height, but they are a lot wider, and most of this width is up top.  The narrowest part of the engine, the block, is also a lot shorter in length.

airwilf
airwilf New Reader
11/15/20 11:50 a.m.

We are on our 4 th new Mazda 3 Sport , with my bro in law having my older one  and our niece the other. I,m on my 8 th Mazda, one was also a Miata, The main reason we stay with Mazda, is that the customer service is 10/10 where we are.Have also found the Mazda cheaper to maintain than our ex Honda's and Toyota's. I used to put a LOT of miles on the Toyota's  hence frequent service ,,& the dealer never knew my name. I think we all had the same name which was Sir. Just my .02 worth and experience.

In reply to einy (Forum Supporter) :

 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/15/20 12:03 p.m.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:

I'd think the V engine is higher, for various reasons, but it's easiest to visualize with simple analysis.  60 degree V6s are not significantly shorter in height, but they are a lot wider, and most of this width is up top.  The narrowest part of the engine, the block, is also a lot shorter in length.

Makes sense. 

Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa SuperDork
12/1/20 3:15 p.m.
turtl631
turtl631 HalfDork
12/1/20 4:27 p.m.

Pretty cool although it feels a bit late with the pace of electrification. Ours is a 2017, the turbo 2.5 is definitely quite a bit spunkier and I wish we had that one. Thought about trading in but ultimately for a daily family car I would like to get at least a plug-in hybrid.  Currently getting my turbo i6 jollies with my m3.

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