Name a car that you wouldn’t take–even if someone paid you

Colin
By Colin Wood
Nov 26, 2021 | Bad cars

Photography Credit: Jordan Rimpela

Sometimes an unreliable/poorly built/all-around-bad car can be easier to live with if the price is low enough–or can be had for free.

But is there a car that’s so terrible that you wouldn’t take, even if someone paid you to take it?

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John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
11/22/21 11:02 a.m.
RoddyMac17
RoddyMac17 Reader
11/22/21 11:05 a.m.

I would let someone pay me to take a Medallion provided it's a manual transmission. From what I recall it's one of the NG series gearboxes, so somewhat desirable in the Lotus Europa crowds.

Nick Comstock
Nick Comstock MegaDork
11/22/21 11:06 a.m.

As much as I want one I just don't have the patience anymore to deal with a Mitsubishi 3000gt vr4 or dodge stealth RT. Just looking under the hood makes my eyes twitch.

Not because the car is terrible.  Just the thought of having to work on one. 

SKJSS (formerly Klayfish)
SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) PowerDork
11/22/21 11:20 a.m.

https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/iqeAbrMeI4YQ/v0/-1x-1.jpg

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
11/22/21 11:21 a.m.

Ive been trying to think of one.

Problem is that ive been here long enough to be able to think of ways to make ANYTHING cool. 

SKJSS (formerly Klayfish)
SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) PowerDork
11/22/21 11:24 a.m.
Dusterbd13-michael said:

Ive been trying to think of one.

Problem is that ive been here long enough to be able to think of ways to make ANYTHING cool. 

OK.  Make the Murano convertible cool.   I dare you....

ClearWaterMS
ClearWaterMS New Reader
11/22/21 11:30 a.m.

most 1/2 finished project cars.  In  my experience; most project cars cost more to finish than they are worth finished.  

 

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter)
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/22/21 11:32 a.m.

I was gonna say Biturbo but that's a lie. I'd totally take a Biturbo.

Tom1200
Tom1200 UltraDork
11/22/21 11:32 a.m.

There are several but top of the list is any early 2000s GM sedans; between the fact that I don't like them and their infamous body control module issues you couldn't pay me enough. 

Toyman01 + Sized and
Toyman01 + Sized and GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/22/21 11:39 a.m.

They are paying?

Line them up, I'll take them all. 

 

Mustang50
Mustang50 Reader
11/22/21 11:41 a.m.

Any Mustang II.

DirtyBird222
DirtyBird222 PowerDork
11/22/21 11:41 a.m.
SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) said:

https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/iqeAbrMeI4YQ/v0/-1x-1.jpg

How dare you shame the NMCC. 

 

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
11/22/21 11:44 a.m.
SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) said:
Dusterbd13-michael said:

Ive been trying to think of one.

Problem is that ive been here long enough to be able to think of ways to make ANYTHING cool. 

OK.  Make the Murano convertible cool.   I dare you....

Cj7 frame, 39 inch boggers, winch bumper, and some v8 with a roots blower and bug catcher coming through the hood.

And paint it in van Halen's truck paint job.

DirtyBird222
DirtyBird222 PowerDork
11/22/21 11:44 a.m.

As someone who is constantly traveling and always in rental cars this is my consensus:

- Any GM FWD made in the last 20+ years with the Cobalt SS/TC and HHR SS being the exceptions. 

- I will flatout refuse any FCA product I get as a rental now. They are boring, cheap, and there is always something wrong with them. Even if gifted one, I would refuse.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
11/22/21 11:51 a.m.

I suppose if you were paying me I'd be stupid not to, but I wouldn't own any Mercedes product for longer than it took to offload it to someone else.

 

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia UltraDork
11/22/21 11:52 a.m.

I  ask myself   "is this worth the parking spot ?

most of the time the answer is NO ,  even if someday I can make a few hundred bucks on it !

 

buzzboy
buzzboy SuperDork
11/22/21 12:10 p.m.
Duke said:

I suppose if you were paying me I'd be stupid not to, but I wouldn't own any Mercedes product for longer than it took to offload it to someone else.

I volunteer as the offloadee.

QuikMcshifterson
QuikMcshifterson New Reader
11/22/21 12:21 p.m.

2008-2014 Dodge Avenger.... I can't think of a good use for it. Not even for demolition derby. It's literally worth more as scrap.

Maybe as a gift to someone you don't actually like.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
11/22/21 12:24 p.m.
Dusterbd13-michael said:

Ive been trying to think of one.

Problem is that ive been here long enough to be able to think of ways to make ANYTHING cool. 

Cool is one thing, but anything over 180" long is a hard sell.

Anything I can roll my body under without jackstands is a no-go.

Mercedes or BMW from the last 20 years or so?  Hard nope.

golfduke
golfduke Dork
11/22/21 12:26 p.m.

Chevy Corsica.  As a good racing buddy once said, 'It's so bad, It can't even be Lemons'ed'...  My mom had one, and god what an epic pile that thing was. 

 

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
11/22/21 12:27 p.m.

Honda Beat.

I'm sure a lot of you are thinking, "Why would anybody turn that down?" It's something that looks like it would be a lot of fun, except there's no way I could squeeze into the driver's seat! So it would just sit in my driveway taunting me.

Stefan (Forum Supporter)
Stefan (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/22/21 12:35 p.m.
QuikMcshifterson said:

2008-2014 Dodge Avenger.... I can't think of a good use for it. Not even for demolition derby. It's literally worth more as scrap.

Maybe as a gift to someone you don't actually like.

Its a Mitsubishi Galant underneath, but without the better styling of the previous Gen, I agree there isn't much you could do to that to make it worth the effort over a proper Galant, etc.

Antihero (Forum Supporter)
Antihero (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
11/22/21 12:44 p.m.

02 explorer. It's rated as the worst car ever sold for a reason. My wife had one when we got together and can confirm.....mega crap. If someone offers you a free one consider them a mortal enemy.

 

Probably the LHS/Intrepid/ whatever else it was sold as. Everyone I've known that's owned one has hated them with the fury of a thousand sun's, and blew a head gasket too funnily enough

 

 

Powar
Powar GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
11/22/21 12:48 p.m.

There isn't one. I could have fun in absolutely anything, even if its just because of how little I care if it gets destroyed.

MrFancypants
MrFancypants Reader
11/22/21 12:50 p.m.

One of the last Ford Focii with the dual clutch auto-grenade transmissions.

Dodge Caliber with the CVT...  among the most miserable cars I've ever driven.

I'm having a difficult time thinking of anything else, but I'm the weirdo who longs for something like a pristine Mustang II because I think it'd be fun to have a perfect example of the most hated car on the planet.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
11/22/21 12:51 p.m.

There are plenty, but I dont really keep track of them.  One that comes to mind immediately is a CVT Saturn Vue.  Guaranteed transmission failure.  But I dont know that there are any left on the road for that reason.

 

mtn
mtn MegaDork
11/22/21 12:54 p.m.

I can't think of a single one. If you're paying me to take something, I'm getting money. Then I'd just scrap it if it was worthless, or sell it if it was worth something, or keep it if I liked it. Either I'm getting paid twice, or I'm getting paid to drive a car I like. 

I suppose there is a point at which the work involved is not worth it, but I kinda doubt it, assuming that it can roll. 

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
11/22/21 12:54 p.m.

I don' know how to narrow it down to a dozen, let alone one. But I'd probably go with.... ECODIESEL anything

Antihero (Forum Supporter)
Antihero (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
11/22/21 12:55 p.m.

Speaking of CVTs....the Versa I drove with the CVT was just miserable to drive. The engine sounded apologetic that I was having to experience this too.

 

2nd slowest car I've ever driven, the first being a Fairmont with a 4cyl 4 spd. I've ridden faster bicycles

MrFancypants
MrFancypants Reader
11/22/21 12:58 p.m.
Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:

Speaking of CVTs....the Versa I drove with the CVT was just miserable to drive. The engine sounded apologetic that I was having to experience this too.

 

2nd slowest car I've ever driven, the first being a Fairmont with a 4cyl 4 spd. I've ridden faster bicycles

Nissan's CVTs are just weird.  Their bottom line cars like the Versa and even base Altima are just awful, but the CVT in the Maxima is actually pretty damn nice to use.  Not just nice to use for a CVT, but nice to use compared to any transmission out there.

pres589 (djronnebaum)
pres589 (djronnebaum) UltimaDork
11/22/21 1:00 p.m.

Anything Chrysler with a bunch of Mercedes in it like a Crossfire.  Maybe especially the Crossfire.  

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
11/22/21 1:06 p.m.
MrFancypants said:
Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:

Speaking of CVTs....the Versa I drove with the CVT was just miserable to drive. The engine sounded apologetic that I was having to experience this too.

 

2nd slowest car I've ever driven, the first being a Fairmont with a 4cyl 4 spd. I've ridden faster bicycles

Nissan's CVTs are just weird.  Their bottom line cars like the Versa and even base Altima are just awful, but the CVT in the Maxima is actually pretty damn nice to use.  Not just nice to use for a CVT, but nice to use compared to any transmission out there.

I've driven a Versa CVT and it drove exactly how I would expect a CVT car to.  Engine and car accelerate.  Once peak HP is reached, engine stays at that rpm while the trans ratio changes.  Yeah, its droney, but its exactly how a CVT should work.  I don't get the complaining about that.    Meanwhile the altima and maxima have CVTs that have fake 'gears' in them which is just dumb.

The reliability though... yikes.

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter)
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/22/21 1:14 p.m.
bobzilla said:

I don' know how to narrow it down to a dozen, let alone one. But I'd probably go with.... ECODIESEL anything

should be able to find a cheap one out there to LS swap...

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
11/22/21 1:17 p.m.

Nissan Altima. I despise the cars and the people that drive them. I will not be associated in any way.

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
11/22/21 1:21 p.m.

I just finished looking at ads for a Renault R5 and a Renault Fuego, so my standards are low or non-existent.

MrFancypants
MrFancypants Reader
11/22/21 1:33 p.m.
ProDarwin said:
MrFancypants said:
Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:

Speaking of CVTs....the Versa I drove with the CVT was just miserable to drive. The engine sounded apologetic that I was having to experience this too.

 

2nd slowest car I've ever driven, the first being a Fairmont with a 4cyl 4 spd. I've ridden faster bicycles

Nissan's CVTs are just weird.  Their bottom line cars like the Versa and even base Altima are just awful, but the CVT in the Maxima is actually pretty damn nice to use.  Not just nice to use for a CVT, but nice to use compared to any transmission out there.

I've driven a Versa CVT and it drove exactly how I would expect a CVT car to.  Engine and car accelerate.  Once peak HP is reached, engine stays at that rpm while the trans ratio changes.  Yeah, its droney, but its exactly how a CVT should work.  I don't get the complaining about that.    Meanwhile the altima and maxima have CVTs that have fake 'gears' in them which is just dumb.

The reliability though... yikes.

Yeah I appreciate why people are fine with the hit a single RPM and hold thing as far as peak efficiency goes. But I absolutely hate it. I'd rather have the fake gears, I can't imagine the overall difference in acceleration or efficiency is much.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
11/22/21 1:40 p.m.
Duke said:

I suppose if you were paying me I'd be stupid not to, but I wouldn't own any Mercedes product for longer than it took to offload it to someone else.

In addition to this, let me add the whole genre of lifted-coupe-4-door things.  I don't even know what genre name they're actually called.  But the BMW X2-4-6-8, the Benz GLC / GLE coupes, and anything like that from any other manufacturer.

 

ShawnG
ShawnG UltimaDork
11/22/21 2:02 p.m.

Chrysler.

 

ErnieN85
ErnieN85 New Reader
11/22/21 3:07 p.m.

Any thing from FCI some of the most unreliable cars ever madeno

ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter)
ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) HalfDork
11/22/21 4:56 p.m.

Everybody's got a price, but it wouldn't take an Italian exotic unless the money they paid was enough to offset the ownership cost of using it exactly the way I want to. 

billstewartx
billstewartx New Reader
11/22/21 5:02 p.m.

billstewartx
billstewartx New Reader
11/22/21 5:02 p.m.

i drove one... i know....

barefootskater (Shaun)
barefootskater (Shaun) PowerDork
11/22/21 5:09 p.m.

Chrysler Concorde/ intrepid/ whatever else shared that horrible platform.
 

Here's an idea: let's put an unreasonably heavy v6 waaay out in front of the axle so the thing is so nose heavy that even thinking about the brakes makes the front drop 6", and while we're at it, maybe uncomfortable seats, steering that feels like it's made from marshmallows and coupled with telekinesis. A battery is something that people have to deal with regularly, so let's put it behind the front fender. People like road noise, right? ALL the road noise! Also, there will be no ground clearance; speed bumps will damage things, this is mandatory. And the upholstery doesn't stain, but it LOOKS stained right from the factory. Deal with it. 
Seriously, BERK whoever green lit that abortion. It's like they saw GM designing the W body, and said, "let's do that, only way E36 M3tier." "I don't know, sir, the W is pretty terrible..." "Johnson, I want to take the E36 M3tiness to 11. I want to make the general puke." Then they did. 

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
11/22/21 5:32 p.m.
barefootskater (Shaun) said:

Chrysler Concorde/ intrepid/ whatever else shared that horrible platform.
 

Here's an idea: let's put an unreasonably heavy v6 waaay out in front of the axle so the thing is so nose heavy that even thinking about the brakes makes the front drop 6", and while we're at it, maybe uncomfortable seats, steering that feels like it's made from marshmallows and coupled with telekinesis. A battery is something that people have to deal with regularly, so let's put it behind the front fender. People like road noise, right? ALL the road noise! Also, there will be no ground clearance; speed bumps will damage things, this is mandatory. And the upholstery doesn't stain, but it LOOKS stained right from the factory. Deal with it. 
Seriously, BERK whoever green lit that abortion. It's like they saw GM designing the W body, and said, "let's do that, only way E36 M3tier." "I don't know, sir, the W is pretty terrible..." "Johnson, I want to take the E36 M3tiness to 11. I want to make the general puke." Then they did. 

Interesting.  I recall thinking some of those looked pretty cool way back in 2000 or so.  But now that I think about it, I don't know that I have seen one on the road in probably a decade.  Did they all get put out of their misery?

300zxfreak
300zxfreak Reader
11/22/21 5:42 p.m.

Any Chrysler product from the 80's......maybe even the 70's.

M2Pilot
M2Pilot Dork
11/22/21 6:00 p.m.

1982 Ford EXP.  I was given one as a loaner. Sunroof leaked. It was ugly and a school bus beat me from a stoplight.

Daylan C
Daylan C PowerDork
11/22/21 6:08 p.m.

I want to drive literally everything at least once. For science.

Uncle David (Forum Supporter)
Uncle David (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand Reader
11/22/21 6:31 p.m.

90's Taurus SHO

Been there, done that. Never again.

DrBoost
DrBoost MegaDork
11/22/21 6:35 p.m.
ShawnG said:

Chrysler.

 

I never get the Chrysler hate. It's usually from people that have never owned one, or they know someone that had (?) a bad experience. 
i have had many Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge vehicles with over 200K miles, wuite a few with over 250K, I think 3 with over 300K. My personal best was sold with 384K. Did they need repairs?  Yup. Has my Honduh been more reliable than my ChryCo products?  Nope. And I paid the Honduh tax too!   

ShawnG
ShawnG UltimaDork
11/22/21 6:50 p.m.
DrBoost said:
ShawnG said:

Chrysler.

 

I never get the Chrysler hate. It's usually from people that have never owned one, or they know someone that had (?) a bad experience. 
i have had many Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge vehicles with over 200K miles, wuite a few with over 250K, I think 3 with over 300K. My personal best was sold with 384K. Did they need repairs?  Yup. Has my Honduh been more reliable than my ChryCo products?  Nope. And I paid the Honduh tax too!   

I've owned two. Fool me once....

I've worked on enough of their pickups to learn why I still don't want one.

I've had great reliability from my F-series trucks and Toyota cars.  I'm driving a Ford Escape at the moment, we'll see how that goes. The wife's Suburban needed a ton of work when I bought it but we're past that now.

Never owned a Honda car but the motorcycles I owned were fine.

stuart in mn
stuart in mn MegaDork
11/22/21 6:56 p.m.
billstewartx said:

i drove one... i know....

What is it?  I don't recognize the picture.

 

I can only think of one car I ever drove that I genuinely disliked - a Renault Alliance.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
11/22/21 7:14 p.m.
DrBoost said:
ShawnG said:

Chrysler.

 

I never get the Chrysler hate. It's usually from people that have never owned one, or they know someone that had (?) a bad experience. 
i have had many Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge vehicles with over 200K miles, wuite a few with over 250K, I think 3 with over 300K. My personal best was sold with 384K. Did they need repairs?  Yup. Has my Honduh been more reliable than my ChryCo products?  Nope. And I paid the Honduh tax too!   

Personally I have never driven a Chrysler product that wasn't a complete turd to drive but to be fair I would say the same about GM.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
11/22/21 7:15 p.m.

My answer pretty much anything from the Big 3 in the late 70s, 80s, 90s and early 00s (with a few exceptions).

Woody (Forum Supportum)
Woody (Forum Supportum) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/22/21 7:16 p.m.

If there was one of these parked in my neighborhood, I would move. 
 

barefootskater (Shaun)
barefootskater (Shaun) PowerDork
11/22/21 7:19 p.m.
Woody (Forum Supportum) said:

Now this is just trolling

Woody (Forum Supportum)
Woody (Forum Supportum) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/22/21 7:27 p.m.

In reply to barefootskater (Shaun) :

You caught me in the middle of editing to add an even more hideous example. 

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/22/21 7:32 p.m.

Free car is like free pizza.  Free pizza is better than no pizza. 

GeddesB
GeddesB New Reader
11/22/21 7:46 p.m.
300zxfreak said:

Any Chrysler product from the 80's......maybe even the 70's.

I had an '85 Shelby Charger I adored.  Wonderful car for a 19 year old. 

 

Turbo_Rev
Turbo_Rev New Reader
11/22/21 7:48 p.m.

Christine The Car Wallpapers - Wallpaper Cave

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
11/22/21 8:01 p.m.

In reply to Turbo_Rev :

Are you kidding me? It's the perfect car. It fixes itself.  IT.  FIXES.  ITSELF. Yeah, there's the murder part, sure. BUT IT FIXES ITSELF !

A 401 CJ
A 401 CJ SuperDork
11/22/21 8:12 p.m.
DirtyBird222 said:

As someone who is constantly traveling and always in rental cars this is my consensus:

- Any GM FWD made in the last 20+ years with the Cobalt SS/TC and HHR SS being the exceptions. 

- I will flatout refuse any FCA product I get as a rental now. They are boring, cheap, and there is always something wrong with them. Even if gifted one, I would refuse.

Hmmm.  I just put 2200 miles last week on a Chrysler Pacifica.  It was boring.  But not painfully slow.  It also pulled 28 mpg at interstate speed loaded with all my crap - most of the time in the hammer lane.  If there was anything wrong with it, I didn't find it.  Had 50k miles too.  I'm rarely disappointed with the FCA 3.6 vans.  I've rented a few dozen.

ddavidv
ddavidv UltimaDork
11/22/21 9:32 p.m.

Don't misunderstand me; I like AMCs. But you need to understand...I drove one of these. Beige, with a brown vinyl roof. And a bench seat. And a six cylinder. With manual drum brakes. It was the most horrible, terrifying experience of my automotive life, and that includes putting a E36 M3 on its roof and having a Fiat 124 catch fire while I was driving it.

Worst. Car. Ever.

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
11/22/21 9:35 p.m.

Any 4 cylinder commuter car that is midsized.

 

Or, anything rusty.  Don't even care if it's an awesome car.  

 

Just say no to rust.

RichardSIA
RichardSIA Dork
11/22/21 10:28 p.m.

This is another trick question to get me in trouble again, right?
OKAY, I will play!

TESLA! Or any other EV except maybe, just barely maybe, a clean Bradley GTE for the historical value.

Anything and everything else made after about 1984, and yes, that includes what I would have lusted after only a couple of years prior.
BMW, Mercedes no matter when made, only exception a 300 SLR or Gull-Wing.

Please DO send me all the Renault Fuego's, I've been looking for them as parts donors. devil

 

Danny Shields (Forum Supporter)
Danny Shields (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
11/23/21 5:43 a.m.

This thread is more useful than the "Used Cars To Avoid" feature in that "leading consumer magazine". And way more entertaining! laugh

First time I ever saw someone begging for Renault Fuegos!

 

Mr. Peabody
Mr. Peabody UltimaDork
11/23/21 7:25 a.m.
ddavidv said:

Don't misunderstand me; I like AMCs. But you need to understand...I drove one of these. Beige, with a brown vinyl roof. And a bench seat. And a six cylinder. With manual drum brakes. It was the most horrible, terrifying experience of my automotive life, and that includes putting a E36 M3 on its roof and having a Fiat 124 catch fire while I was driving it.

Worst. Car. Ever.

We've agreed on a few things lately.

When they were current and I saw one on the road I'd have to look away because I'd start feeling nauseous if I didn't. That pic doesn't do it justice because that is the ugliest car ever built, and I generally like AMC products.

I would generally take anything if you paid me, even a Toyota, but I'd have to hold my nose if it was a Ford. Of any kind. From any decade.

 

rslifkin
rslifkin UberDork
11/23/21 7:30 a.m.
DrBoost said:

I never get the Chrysler hate. It's usually from people that have never owned one, or they know someone that had (?) a bad experience. 
i have had many Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge vehicles with over 200K miles, wuite a few with over 250K, I think 3 with over 300K. My personal best was sold with 384K. Did they need repairs?  Yup. Has my Honduh been more reliable than my ChryCo products?  Nope. And I paid the Honduh tax too!   

I sorta get it.  They've made plenty of good stuff, but also plenty of turds.  And also plenty of stuff that holds up well given a good owner and a big trans cooler, but will live a short life in the hands of an average idiot.  Think about how many people claim a 46RE is guaranteed to be dead before 100k, or are on their 3rd one at 80k.  And yet I've got one with just shy of 250k on it that's still healthy. 

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
11/23/21 7:35 a.m.
DrBoost said:
ShawnG said:

Chrysler.

 

I never get the Chrysler hate. It's usually from people that have never owned one, or they know someone that had (?) a bad experience. 
i have had many Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge vehicles with over 200K miles, wuite a few with over 250K, I think 3 with over 300K. My personal best was sold with 384K. Did they need repairs?  Yup. Has my Honduh been more reliable than my ChryCo products?  Nope. And I paid the Honduh tax too!   

I'm with you here.  I have no love for Chrylser, but I don't hate them either.  I think when it comes to smaller cars in the last decade or two, Honda clearly makes a much better product.

I'd take a Chrysler minivan of some sort before I touched an Odyssey again.

Mr. Peabody
Mr. Peabody UltimaDork
11/23/21 7:46 a.m.

I don't get the hate for FWD GM products.

They've been my go-to for inexpensive reliable transportation for the last 20+ years.

ShawnG
ShawnG UltimaDork
11/23/21 8:54 a.m.

In reply to Mr. Peabody :

The engines never need a rebuild.

By the time they're worn out, you can just buy another for less than the rebuild cost.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
11/23/21 8:58 a.m.
DrBoost said:
ShawnG said:

Chrysler.

I never get the Chrysler hate. It's usually from people that have never owned one, or they know someone that had (?) a bad experience. 
i have had many Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge vehicles with over 200K miles, wuite a few with over 250K, I think 3 with over 300K. My personal best was sold with 384K. Did they need repairs?  Yup. Has my Honduh been more reliable than my ChryCo products?  Nope. And I paid the Honduh tax too!   

I'm with the Doctor here.

My father had an '89 Grand Caravan that has something like 280,000 hard - really hard - miles on it before it finally got too rusty to be worth fixing.  Not that it needed much fixing anyway.  I had a '92 Caravan that had 100,000 trouble-free family hauler miles on it when it got killed by a rear-ender.  It was replaced by a 2000 Grand Caravan that went over 200,000 miles before it left the family and as far as I know is still going strong with its new owner.  Our 2012 T&C is low miles but basically pristine at 60,000 miles, with no service except tires and oil.

We had a pair of 1995 Neons which, other than headgaskets (which Chrysler fixed out of warranty for $100), were trouble free well over 100,000 miles each.  The Sport drowned in a puddle and the ACR I sold because I wanted something newer and nicer.  I drove the living piss out of that thing and it never gave me any trouble at all.  And Neons are the poster children for allegedly crappy Chrysler products.

I realize this is anecdotal but out of 6 Chrysler products I have had personal experience with, all 6 were perfectly fine vehicles.

 

pinchvalve (Forum Supporter)
pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
11/23/21 9:07 a.m.

With the 3.0, I would say no thank you and walk away. With the Iron Duke 4CYL, I would punch the person in the face and light the car on fire before pushing it off a cliff and shooting it on the way down. 

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
11/23/21 9:12 a.m.
DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

I just finished looking at ads for a Renault R5 and a Renault Fuego, so my standards are low or non-existent.

I don't know; it seems like your standards are that you don't want merely terrible, but that you want insanely terrible and refuse to settle for mere mediocrity.

Really odd trivia: The Chrysler LH cars like the Dodge Intrepid, which have received a lot of mention in this thread, can trace a lot of their chassis design to the Eagle Medallion in the first reply - and the Renault 21 and 25.

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
11/23/21 9:13 a.m.
DrBoost said:
ShawnG said:

Chrysler.

 

I never get the Chrysler hate. It's usually from people that have never owned one, or they know someone that had (?) a bad experience. 
i have had many Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge vehicles with over 200K miles, wuite a few with over 250K, I think 3 with over 300K. My personal best was sold with 384K. Did they need repairs?  Yup. Has my Honduh been more reliable than my ChryCo products?  Nope. And I paid the Honduh tax too!   

Had them. Trash. Had friends/family with them. Trash. The only person we knew that loved chryco's was the little old lady that drove 5k miles a year and traded in every 2 years. Even then she had a trans replaced on one and an engine on another. First gen cummins trucks that twisted the frames. Non-adjusting rear brakes on their dually's (350 and larger). 

Yeah... no. My hatred for Toyota is irrational and I know tha because a RAV4 ruined my favorite sneakers catching on fire. Chryco is rational because every experience I have had or know have been terrible. 

kevinatfms
kevinatfms GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
11/23/21 9:36 a.m.

SVT Contour. Absolute horrible piece of E36 M3 to work on in any capacity. Better have extra knuckle skin, super glue and health insurance. 

Same goes with the Ford Probe V6.

preach (dudeist priest)
preach (dudeist priest) GRM+ Memberand Dork
11/23/21 9:42 a.m.

Pontiac Aztec

car39
car39 Dork
11/23/21 9:45 a.m.
QuikMcshifterson said:

2008-2014 Dodge Avenger.... I can't think of a good use for it. Not even for demolition derby. It's literally worth more as scrap.

Maybe as a gift to someone you don't actually like.

I had one as a rental.  Someone asked me what kind of car it was.  I told them it was a Dodge Revenger, because calling it the Dodge Crapcan would be too honest.

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter)
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/23/21 10:05 a.m.

does the Matador above share doors with the Pacer?  because dang, that looks like a Pacer door to me.

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter)
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/23/21 10:08 a.m.
kevinatfms said:

SVT Contour. Absolute horrible piece of E36 M3 to work on in any capacity. Better have extra knuckle skin, super glue and health insurance. 

Same goes with the Ford Probe V6.

never worked on a Contour, but can confirm timing belt and water pump on V6 Probe was a motherberkeleyer.

Antihero (Forum Supporter)
Antihero (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
11/23/21 10:24 a.m.
kevinatfms said:

SVT Contour. Absolute horrible piece of E36 M3 to work on in any capacity. Better have extra knuckle skin, super glue and health insurance. 

Same goes with the Ford Probe V6.

I've heard that before. Is it true that an alternator is an engine-out fix?

 

almost talked myself into one because it was 900 bucks but I never looked at it because everyone said to run away screaming.

Antihero (Forum Supporter)
Antihero (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
11/23/21 10:29 a.m.
pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) said:

With the 3.0, I would say no thank you and walk away. With the Iron Duke 4CYL, I would punch the person in the face and light the car on fire before pushing it off a cliff and shooting it on the way down. 

Funnily enough something like that happened to a FSJ Cherokee my parents owned.

 

It's was a bad car in almost everyway. My dad didn't want to accept money for it when someone wanted to buy it but they settled on something stupid low. It was gonna be a plow truck for them.

 

It was so terrible they rolled it off a mountain, treked down said mountain, and lit it on fire because it had to die a bit more

ShawnG
ShawnG UltimaDork
11/23/21 10:44 a.m.

I've never seen a truck chew up front end parts as fast as Dodge. And I'm a twin-I-beam Ford guy.

I've never had car with more electrical problems than my Jeep Comanche and I've owned Fiats.

There's nothing uglier than an Exner-era Chrysler.

Chad Kroger owns a Prowler.

 

 

APEowner
APEowner GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
11/23/21 10:50 a.m.

Renault Le Car.  I actually had one given to me when I was flipping cars.  I fixed it, sold it, fixed it under warranty, fixed it under warranty, fixed it under warranty and finally gave to poor guy his money back and took the thing to the crusher.  In the end it cost me money.  I  don't remember how much but at the time is was a significant amount, particularly for a free car.

ShawnG
ShawnG UltimaDork
11/23/21 11:06 a.m.

In reply to APEowner :

I was on a short vacation on one of our local islands and saw a LeCar in a driveway that was clearly in current use. I couldn't believe it, must be the only one.

We have a French and Italian car show locally and LeCars don't even pop up there.

barefootskater (Shaun)
barefootskater (Shaun) PowerDork
11/23/21 11:14 a.m.
ShawnG said:

I've never seen a truck chew up front end parts as fast as Dodge. And I'm a twin-I-beam Ford guy.

I've never had car with more electrical problems than my Jeep Comanche and I've owned Fiats.

There's nothing uglier than an Exner-era Chrysler.

Chad Kroger owns a Prowler.

 

 

Damn. That's heavy. 

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
11/23/21 11:59 a.m.

Anything powered by Otto Diesels infernal invention, unless it has more than 12 liters of displacement, and is in a vehicle that weighs over 15,000 pounds empty.

ddavidv
ddavidv UltimaDork
11/23/21 12:09 p.m.

The dealership I worked at in the late 1980s had a LeCar in the dead line. It was a complete car, not rusty. I could probably have gotten it for $100. I could never find the keys to it.

One must count one's blessings, no matter how infrequent.

M2Pilot
M2Pilot Dork
11/23/21 12:10 p.m.
preach (dudeist priest) said:

Pontiac Aztec

I disagree.  Although Aztec is a running joke among car enthusiasts, it was pretty good. My son-in-law had one for several years. It was versatile and trouble free and a good value . I will concede that the styling wasn't for everybody.

rdcyclist
rdcyclist Reader
11/23/21 3:18 p.m.

Another vote for the Chrysler Sebring. I flew into Salt Lake City in July and needed to get Provo 45 miles away from SLC. There were NO rental cars available from any of the trad rental outfits so I thought I'd give Turo a shot. Since it was only a drive to and from with no sightseeing so went for the cheapest car on the site: 2007 Sebring for 22 bucks/day. Literally the E36 M3tiest car ever besides the fact the owner did a crap job cleaning it.

It didn't make it 15 miles down the road. I stopped at a drive through for dinner and the dude in the window sez: "Um, sir, your car is smoking..."

Me: "By jove, you're right!"

The radiator had decided it was done for the day and started spewing coolant.

So I call the owner and he shows up with the Japanese version of a Sebring on a tow dolly: A Suzuki Forenza. At least the AC worked and it got better mileage than the Chrysler. Three guesses what was puddled under the Forenza when I came out of the hotel after checking in.

This was the perfect example of the adage: "The bitterness of low quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price."

DjGreggieP
DjGreggieP HalfDork
11/23/21 3:55 p.m.

Any flavor Volkswagen.

The varying engine codes that has been known by exactly zero customers and ending up having parts returned and other parts ordered and the sudden increase in part failure rate once anything beyond basic maintenance is done, its a time bomb waiting to consume your wallet.

I've worked on a few and they always have minimal space to work in the engine bay and hard to see if its a triple square or a torx head until you are in a position to actually work on it only to discover it is the other one.

Every coolant hose looks like an afterthought of "Hans, we don't build air cooled anymore! We need to route the coolant!!" and made of some brittle plastic that cracks if you so much as look at the coolant temperature sensor housing.

APEowner
APEowner GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
11/23/21 4:41 p.m.
ddavidv said:

The dealership I worked at in the late 1980s had a LeCar in the dead line. It was a complete car, not rusty. I could probably have gotten it for $100. I could never find the keys to it.

One must count one's blessings, no matter how infrequent.

The Buick, Pontiac, Olds dealership I worked at in the early '80s had a Renault Alliance in the loaner fleet.  That thing was such a pile that you often didn't even have to fix a customer's car for them to be glad to get it back.  I lost track of how many times that came in on the hook before it finally want off to some poor sod at the auction.

APEowner
APEowner GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
11/23/21 4:43 p.m.
ShawnG said:

In reply to APEowner :

I was on a short vacation on one of our local islands and saw a LeCar in a driveway that was clearly in current use. I couldn't believe it, must be the only one.

We have a French and Italian car show locally and LeCars don't even pop up there.

I'm convinced that no matter how crappy a car there's someone somewhere who's a fan of it for some reason or another.  The guy I sold mine to loved it despite it's horrible reliability.  He was actually disappointed when I gave him his money back instead of fixing it.

 

Mr. Peabody
Mr. Peabody UltimaDork
11/23/21 5:09 p.m.

I'm convinced that no matter how crappy a car there's someone somewhere who's a fan of it for some reason or another.

 

I drove Swifts, Metro's and Firefly's for 20 years and would still be doing so if there were any left

einy (Forum Supporter)
einy (Forum Supporter) Dork
11/23/21 5:31 p.m.
barefootskater (Shaun) said:

Chrysler Concorde/ intrepid/ whatever else shared that horrible platform.
 

Here's an idea: let's put an unreasonably heavy v6 waaay out in front of the axle so the thing is so nose heavy that even thinking about the brakes makes the front drop 6", and while we're at it, maybe uncomfortable seats, steering that feels like it's made from marshmallows and coupled with telekinesis. A battery is something that people have to deal with regularly, so let's put it behind the front fender. People like road noise, right? ALL the road noise! Also, there will be no ground clearance; speed bumps will damage things, this is mandatory. And the upholstery doesn't stain, but it LOOKS stained right from the factory. Deal with it. 
Seriously, BERK whoever green lit that abortion. It's like they saw GM designing the W body, and said, "let's do that, only way E36 M3tier." "I don't know, sir, the W is pretty terrible..." "Johnson, I want to take the E36 M3tiness to 11. I want to make the general puke." Then they did. 

I had a 2000 Concorde as a company car while working a capital equipment sales job in Wisconsin and the UP.  A normal year was about 40k miles.  Yea, the seats weren't great, and I did go through a transmission at about 70k miles, but man, that was the BEST snow car ever, on regular old all season tires.  No idea why, but it was just glued to the road in slippery weather.  Replacement car was a V6 Camry that was way better in every way, except in the snow.  BTW, the UP gets a lot of snow, and my best customer was way up there, so yea.

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter)
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) Dork
11/23/21 5:43 p.m.
Mr. Peabody said:

I'm convinced that no matter how crappy a car there's someone somewhere who's a fan of it for some reason or another.

 

I drove Swifts, Metro's and Firefly's for 20 years and would still be doing so if there were any left

I miss my Suzuki Swift GT. I wouln't mind having a Yugo. They are essentially Fiats and Fiat racing parts fit.

einy (Forum Supporter)
einy (Forum Supporter) Dork
11/23/21 5:57 p.m.

Olds Cutlass Cierra diesel.  My parents had one when I was in college, and I had to drive it quite a few times when home.  What a hateful, unreliable, slow, smoky piece of crap.  And I say that as a guy who later bought a Rabbit diesel.  On purpose.

ShawnG
ShawnG UltimaDork
11/23/21 7:42 p.m.
APEowner said:

I'm convinced that no matter how crappy a car there's someone somewhere who's a fan of it for some reason or another.  The guy I sold mine to loved it despite it's horrible reliability.  He was actually disappointed when I gave him his money back instead of fixing it.

 

I used to drive by a guy's house on my way home from work, he must have had 6 or 8 Yugos in the driveway and yard.

He must have been "Yugo guy"

I have to admit, I'd have another Fiat 850 Spider, as crappy as that car was, it was fun, Italian and sounded great. Girls liked it too.

kevinatfms
kevinatfms GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
11/24/21 7:05 a.m.
Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:
kevinatfms said:

SVT Contour. Absolute horrible piece of E36 M3 to work on in any capacity. Better have extra knuckle skin, super glue and health insurance. 

Same goes with the Ford Probe V6.

I've heard that before. Is it true that an alternator is an engine-out fix?

 

almost talked myself into one because it was 900 bucks but I never looked at it because everyone said to run away screaming.

Not an engine out fix but an "i will kill the service advisor who gave me this job" fix. Better off sticking your dick in ghost pepper sauce than to deal with replacement of a Contour V6 alternator.

Worst was catalytic converters. Subframe removal minimum just to pull out the guaranteed frozen o2 sensors. Biggest gripe with that was the subframe bolts would strip along with the threading in the body. You would basically call out sick if you found out that one needed o2 sensors. 

wspohn
wspohn SuperDork
11/24/21 1:34 p.m.

Cars that I like enough to  own have to have reasonable performances and good handling, plus styling that I either love or can put up with.

 

Other than taking a car on I didn't like just to flip it out,  it would be a hard No! if anyone offered me an older American muscle car, whether it be Camaro/Firebird, or Mopar or Ford., Had them, dislike them.  A few current ones intrigue me at least a little.

Ditto for many Japanese cars (boring styling except for a very few exceptions) but Italian or British would be given a few minutes of thought in many cases.

Antihero (Forum Supporter)
Antihero (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
11/24/21 2:15 p.m.
kevinatfms said:
Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:
kevinatfms said:

SVT Contour. Absolute horrible piece of E36 M3 to work on in any capacity. Better have extra knuckle skin, super glue and health insurance. 

Same goes with the Ford Probe V6.

I've heard that before. Is it true that an alternator is an engine-out fix?

 

almost talked myself into one because it was 900 bucks but I never looked at it because everyone said to run away screaming.

Not an engine out fix but an "i will kill the service advisor who gave me this job" fix. Better off sticking your dick in ghost pepper sauce than to deal with replacement of a Contour V6 alternator.

Worst was catalytic converters. Subframe removal minimum just to pull out the guaranteed frozen o2 sensors. Biggest gripe with that was the subframe bolts would strip along with the threading in the body. You would basically call out sick if you found out that one needed o2 sensors. 

Damn

I chose a zx2 instead and thought it was better even before I read this.

Now I think it's way way way better

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
11/24/21 2:25 p.m.

The other thought I have for this thread:

Can I fit in the car with a helmet on and a roll cage added?

Would the "if somebody paid me" cover a cage, fire suit, enough repairs to get the car running, and tires?

If so, any car can be an awesome stage rally car at least once.

maj75 (Forum Supporter)
maj75 (Forum Supporter) Dork
11/24/21 5:42 p.m.

Tesla

NickD
NickD MegaDork
11/26/21 1:37 p.m.

I'm surprised no one has said Land Rover Freelander. I remember all the tales of how epically awful those things were. I believe Swank Force One dubbed it the Anti-Miata, as in it's never the answer.

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
11/26/21 1:44 p.m.

In reply to NickD :

yeah.... I miss Ben.

 

jh36
jh36 Dork
11/26/21 2:11 p.m.

Ford EXP from the early 80's. I had one supplied by an insurance company after getting hit on my motorcycle. (My only mode of transportation at that time) They couldn't figure how to give me a loaner bike so they came up with that. 
The novelty of staying warm and dry in the winter wore off in about 10 minutes. 
My repaired bike was returned to me during an ice storm. I was so happy. 

spitfirebill
spitfirebill MegaDork
11/26/21 7:54 p.m.
M2Pilot said:
preach (dudeist priest) said:

Pontiac Aztec

I disagree.  Although Aztec is a running joke among car enthusiasts, it was pretty good. My son-in-law had one for several years. It was versatile and trouble free and a good value . I will concede that the styling wasn't for everybody.

They blow intake gaskets.  

chandler
chandler UltimaDork
11/26/21 8:54 p.m.
einy (Forum Supporter) said:
barefootskater (Shaun) said:

Chrysler Concorde/ intrepid/ whatever else shared that horrible platform.
 

Here's an idea: let's put an unreasonably heavy v6 waaay out in front of the axle so the thing is so nose heavy that even thinking about the brakes makes the front drop 6", and while we're at it, maybe uncomfortable seats, steering that feels like it's made from marshmallows and coupled with telekinesis. A battery is something that people have to deal with regularly, so let's put it behind the front fender. People like road noise, right? ALL the road noise! Also, there will be no ground clearance; speed bumps will damage things, this is mandatory. And the upholstery doesn't stain, but it LOOKS stained right from the factory. Deal with it. 
Seriously, BERK whoever green lit that abortion. It's like they saw GM designing the W body, and said, "let's do that, only way E36 M3tier." "I don't know, sir, the W is pretty terrible..." "Johnson, I want to take the E36 M3tiness to 11. I want to make the general puke." Then they did. 

I had a 2000 Concorde as a company car while working a capital equipment sales job in Wisconsin and the UP.  A normal year was about 40k miles.  Yea, the seats weren't great, and I did go through a transmission at about 70k miles, but man, that was the BEST snow car ever, on regular old all season tires.  No idea why, but it was just glued to the road in slippery weather.  Replacement car was a V6 Camry that was way better in every way, except in the snow.  BTW, the UP gets a lot of snow, and my best customer was way up there, so yea.

My parents LOVE those cars, and sebrings. While none of that makes sense my dad has two sebrings right now with 200k plus on them. He says they are bulletproof. My mom drives an eclipse convertible. I know where I get it from at least.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
11/26/21 9:00 p.m.
spitfirebill said:
M2Pilot said:
preach (dudeist priest) said:

Pontiac Aztec

I disagree.  Although Aztec is a running joke among car enthusiasts, it was pretty good. My son-in-law had one for several years. It was versatile and trouble free and a good value . I will concede that the styling wasn't for everybody.

They blow intake gaskets.  

So does everything else with a 3100/3400.  It's a stupid easy fix and if you use the metal backed ones, it is a one time fix.

Datsun310Guy
Datsun310Guy MegaDork
11/26/21 10:03 p.m.
ShawnG said:

I used to drive by a guy's house on my way home from work, he must have had 6 or 8 Yugos in the driveway and yard.

He must have been "Yugo guy"

It was the late 80's/early 90's and a guy by my first house collected those old Saab 99's.  I always called him the "Saab guy".  Even if I drive by today I still scan the driveway.   

wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L)
wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
11/27/21 7:31 a.m.

Not a one is my answer.

In high school, I was offered a hand me down 76 Comet sort of as pictured below, only it was gold/beige on beige interior. I6, auto

The interior looked like this:

I declared "I'd rather walk", and did, since the 4 speed V8 Javelin I spent every available penny on was perpetually broken. 

Suffice to say, tastes have changed, and a running anything beats a broken "cool" car.

GCrites80s
GCrites80s HalfDork
11/27/21 11:23 a.m.
golfduke said:

Chevy Corsica.  As a good racing buddy once said, 'It's so bad, It can't even be Lemons'ed'...  My mom had one, and god what an epic pile that thing was. 

 

They sold sooooooo many of them. They were everywhere. Berettas too.

Justjim75
Justjim75 SuperDork
11/27/21 11:36 a.m.

What is the condition of the car?  Running and driving with a good transferable title?  Absolutely any car in usable shape as I'm with Duster on this one.

CAinCA
CAinCA GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
11/27/21 12:38 p.m.

Any mid 80's GM diesel, but especially the sedans. 

Antihero (Forum Supporter)
Antihero (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
11/27/21 1:53 p.m.

If we are talking not something to modify at all, I thought of another:

 

Iron Duke Camaro

 

Although I admit it would be hilarious to hop one a bunch I don't really see why anyone would want one in stock form. Probably is the reason you never ever see them is because no one bought one anyway

Chris_V
Chris_V UberDork
11/30/21 12:38 p.m.

Any car can be modified to be fun and interesting. People avoiding entire common popular brands are just closed minded.

 

yeah avoid all Chrysler products. That way you never have to own one of these:

 

Avoid all Fords. That way you'll never suffer the embarrassment of driving one of these:

 

 

Avoid all GM products for similar reasons.

 

Even when it comes down to individual models and years, there is potential in pretty much everything. For some cars with known problems, there are often new, permanent fixes (like the previously mentioned head gasket fix for the GM 3100).

I loved my SVT Contour. Would have another. Loved my '05 BMW ZHP. Shouldn't have sold it. Loved my Fiat 124 Spiders, even with the rust. Absolutely love my current MINI Roadster even with the reputation MINIs have.

 

If someone was paying me to take a car, even one of those Matadors, I'd find a way to have fun with it and modify it, if I had the room to keep it.

 

 

And here I thought this board was for people with at least a modicum of imagination.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
11/30/21 12:44 p.m.
dean1484 said:

Free car is like free pizza.  Free pizza is better than no pizza. 

Except that some pizza is absolutely not worth ingesting the calories, regardless of price point.

 

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
11/30/21 2:27 p.m.
jh36 said:

Ford EXP from the early 80's. I had one supplied by an insurance company after getting hit on my motorcycle. (My only mode of transportation at that time) They couldn't figure how to give me a loaner bike so they came up with that. 
The novelty of staying warm and dry in the winter wore off in about 10 minutes. 
My repaired bike was returned to me during an ice storm. I was so happy. 

I can't be the only one here who thinks one of those would be a great commuter if only I put an SVT Focus drivetrain in there.

Stefan (Forum Supporter)
Stefan (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/30/21 2:42 p.m.

In reply to MadScientistMatt :

Its just a 1st Gen Escort underneath, including the Ford CVH drivetrain, the Ford Zetec is loosely based off the CVH.  So the swap may not be too bad to do, as far as swaps go.  Of course there was a factory turbo version of the CVH overseas that might be a slightly more "Radwood" aproved solution when coupled with some modern relibility improvements.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/30/21 2:48 p.m.
CAinCA said:

Any mid 80's GM diesel, but especially the sedans. 

Oh, I'll take them all.  The head gasket issue is super easy to solve and then you have a sweet, efficient diesel that can be turboed to pretty impressive numbers.

So, yes... 30 mpg and 450hp/650tq?  I'll take every last one of them.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/30/21 2:51 p.m.

I won't do a K-car.  If someone gave it to me, I wouldn't even waste the Sharpie ink to make a "free" sign, I would just leave the keys in it and park it somewhere it would get stolen.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
11/30/21 3:16 p.m.
Duke said:
dean1484 said:

Free car is like free pizza.  Free pizza is better than no pizza. 

Except that some pizza is absolutely not worth ingesting the calories, regardless of price point.

 

Yup. I don't want to deal with a car that I really don't want.

stroker
stroker UberDork
11/30/21 3:20 p.m.

Almost anything Renault.  I qualify that because I don't know the whole historical Renault model line.  They might have made something worthwhile, but if they did, I'm not familiar with it.

DjGreggieP
DjGreggieP HalfDork
11/30/21 3:24 p.m.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

I won't do a K-car.  If someone gave it to me, I wouldn't even waste the Sharpie ink to make a "free" sign, I would just leave the keys in it and park it somewhere it would get stolen.

My nephew had a K-car. Body is in decent shape. He killed it somehow and after a few years of it sitting at my farm its *finally* going to join 99% of its family in the scrapyard in the sky. So I can relate to not wanting to touch one that was given to oneself

Stefan (Forum Supporter)
Stefan (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/30/21 3:29 p.m.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Wait, you'll take a complete failure of GM design, AKA the diesel V8 bt you won't take a K?

Only because you magically know how to "fix" the inherent issues with the V8 diesel through the magic of head gaskets (never mind that the engines themselves really weren't ever designed or intended for diesel use, so its still a grenade with the pin pulled, especially once you add "boost") yet the K gets a pass because you vaguely remember reading in some magazine about its supposed lack of chassis stiffness, even though many people have raced them and never once complained about chassis stiffness issues (unless otherwise previously damaged by rust or accident damage) as well as many who've actually owned and worked on them stating they've never had issues with chassis sag.  I have had issues with door pins wearing out, especially on the 2-doors, but that's not a chassis twist issue, that's just wear and tear and easily replaced with new bushings/pins and isn't limited to any one manufacturer.

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
11/30/21 4:35 p.m.
stroker said:

Almost anything Renault.  I qualify that because I don't know the whole historical Renault model line.  They might have made something worthwhile, but if they did, I'm not familiar with it.

Antihero (Forum Supporter)
Antihero (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
11/30/21 4:37 p.m.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

I won't do a K-car.  If someone gave it to me, I wouldn't even waste the Sharpie ink to make a "free" sign, I would just leave the keys in it and park it somewhere it would get stolen.

I actually did that with an 02 explorer.

 

No one picked it up

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter)
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
11/30/21 4:54 p.m.
kevinatfms said:
Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:
kevinatfms said:

SVT Contour. Absolute horrible piece of E36 M3 to work on in any capacity. Better have extra knuckle skin, super glue and health insurance. 

Same goes with the Ford Probe V6.

I've heard that before. Is it true that an alternator is an engine-out fix?

 

almost talked myself into one because it was 900 bucks but I never looked at it because everyone said to run away screaming.

Not an engine out fix but an "i will kill the service advisor who gave me this job" fix. Better off sticking your dick in ghost pepper sauce than to deal with replacement of a Contour V6 alternator.

Worst was catalytic converters. Subframe removal minimum just to pull out the guaranteed frozen o2 sensors. Biggest gripe with that was the subframe bolts would strip along with the threading in the body. You would basically call out sick if you found out that one needed o2 sensors. 

SVT Contours are amazing cars. Totally underrated and maligned. I heard so much BS about working on them. "You need a hoist, and a full day to change an alternator and you still need to undo engine mounts". BS. I had to do it several times as it turns out genuine Bosch remanufactured alternators aren't worth E36 M3. Three in a row failed out of the box or within a couple of hundred miles. I can (could, sold it in 08) swap them  in three and a half hours in the drive with jack stands. The trick is every extension you have plus a couple of UJ's. Not easy, but way exaggerated. Same with HEGO sensors. The internet will tell you again that you need to undo engine mounts, rotate forward and all sorts of BS. Dead easy 20 min job from the top. You had to remove something (can't remember what after all these years) from the firewall and do it from above by feel, but seriously a 20 min job. 
 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
11/30/21 5:17 p.m.
Stefan (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to MadScientistMatt :

Its just a 1st Gen Escort underneath, including the Ford CVH drivetrain, the Ford Zetec is loosely based off the CVH.  So the swap may not be too bad to do, as far as swaps go.  Of course there was a factory turbo version of the CVH overseas that might be a slightly more "Radwood" aproved solution when coupled with some modern relibility improvements.

It's a 3rd generation Escort, or MkIII as they say.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
11/30/21 5:41 p.m.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

First generation US Escort.

 

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/30/21 8:51 p.m.
Stefan (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Wait, you'll take a complete failure of GM design, AKA the diesel V8 bt you won't take a K?

Only because you magically know how to "fix" the inherent issues with the V8 diesel through the magic of head gaskets (never mind that the engines themselves really weren't ever designed or intended for diesel use, so its still a grenade with the pin pulled, especially once you add "boost") yet the K gets a pass because you vaguely remember reading in some magazine about its supposed lack of chassis stiffness, even though many people have raced them and never once complained about chassis stiffness issues (unless otherwise previously damaged by rust or accident damage) as well as many who've actually owned and worked on them stating they've never had issues with chassis sag.  I have had issues with door pins wearing out, especially on the 2-doors, but that's not a chassis twist issue, that's just wear and tear and easily replaced with new bushings/pins and isn't limited to any one manufacturer.

Disagree.  This was my job for many years - driveline engineer for hot rod/custom shops.  It was my job to know what will work best for any given combo and sell it to dim-witted muggles who didn't know E36 M3 about the world of how cars actually work.

The Olds diesel was not a flawed design.  It was also NOT a "converted gas engine" as most people think.  The Olds diesel had a major shortcoming  with five 7/16" head bolts per cylinder and a weak gasket design.  The factory TSB instructed techs to repair it by using a new factory gasket and re-using the original head bolts which had already stretched and failed.  The fix is to use an upgraded gasket and drill and tap for 1/2" studs.  Done.  Period.  Full stop.

The entire world hated diesel (and many still do) solely on the reputation of GM's failure to properly remedy the issue.  The Olds 350 diesel block is based on the same gas architecture, but it was a clean slate design including a very capable crank, tons of meat in the main webbing, and very thick cylinder wall castings.  Many have taken the 350 diesel and converted them to gas with aftermarket heads and slapped 8-71s, turbos, or nitrous on them and made 750 hp or more and they take it in stride, so the engine isn't the weak part.  The only issue with them was crap head sealing which is easily fixed.

My neighbor and I built a 350 diesel (with 1/2" stud conversion) and a modified pump with 27 psi from a Garret turbo making 424 hp and 672 tq for a mid-engined S10 build.  This was in 1994 and it was still making 11-second passes as of the last time we spoke which was about 6 years ago.  I spec'd a 350 diesel-to-gas conversion in 2004 for a customer's 87 Cutlass that dynoed 650hp and it made probably 30 passes on the strip over a few years and damn near broke into the 9s (10.08) and it never broke anything.

The misconceptions over the Olds diesel design are all over the internet.  I love it.  It keeps them cheap.  I'll take them all.  You say they weren't designed for "diesel use" which indicates that you've never looked inside an Olds diesel.  Clean. Slate. Design.  Not in any way a converted gas engine.  Based on the gas architecture, but absolutely nothing like the gas 350.  

The K-car on the other hand is the single least-rigid unibody production car ever produced.  I can't produce the link because K-cars and the magazine articles that did the research on it aren't available to the intarwebs, because the intarwebs wasn't around in 1982.  Plus... ugliness.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/30/21 9:12 p.m.

From 350 Olds Diesel Specs & History (dieselhub.com)

There is an enormous misconception that the 350 Olds is based on GM's 350 gas engine. While the designs share cylinder bore/stroke dimensions, the notion that the 350 Oldsmobile diesel is a converted 350 gas V-8 is completely false. Not only would such a ludicrous design be engineering suicide, but the 350 gas engine would never have survived the cylinder pressures created by the diesel's 22.5 : 1 compression ratio. In fact, GM's official statement regarding these rumors was that "All of the major parts: block, crankshaft, rods, pistons, and lifters have been strengthened to handle the higher compression ratio." The rumor that the engines are related likely stems from a combination of the following:

• Because of the engine's identical bore and stroke, the Olds diesel could be manufactured using pre-existing tooling.

• Not only is it easy to assume the 350 diesel is based on the 350 gas engine, but owners and outsiders alike needed to place the engine's problems on something.

 

From 1978 Oldsmobile Delta 88 Diesel: In Defense of the Olds 350 Diesel V8 - Riverside Green (jackbaruth.com)

The LF9 engine block was a unique casting with extra reinforcement; the entire reciprocating assembly also was unique, with all its components heavy-duty. The larger, 3-inch-diameter main bearing journals it used in place of the normal 2.5″ journals were the same as in a big block;

 

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/30/21 9:18 p.m.
Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

I won't do a K-car.  If someone gave it to me, I wouldn't even waste the Sharpie ink to make a "free" sign, I would just leave the keys in it and park it somewhere it would get stolen.

I actually did that with an 02 explorer.

 

No one picked it up

If no one picked up your Explorer, they wouldn't likely pick up an Aries.  Maybe I would waste the Sharpie ink.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
12/1/21 6:16 p.m.
Duke said:

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

First generation US Escort.

 

Which was a MkIII until they made it bigger in '86 or so...

I love how Ford kept trying to make "world cars" and then proceeded to change it up for different markets.  Like how the US only ever got the first and third generation Focus.

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter)
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
12/1/21 6:48 p.m.

Mid engine Kei vans. Despite the irrational love people on here I have for the E36 M3 boxes, I am one of the few people who has probably spent time driving them. They are utterly totally horrible. They are dangerous at typical traffic speeds and make a VW type II van look like a paragon of crash safety. Seriously, I wouldn't use one of the golf cart or slow speed hauler around private property. They are horrible loathsome dangerous devises. The only possible reason to except one is so you can take it straight to the crusher and save some other poor soul from the misery.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
12/2/21 9:37 a.m.

There isn't one. 

Because if I made money just taking the car, I'd just turn around and resell it and make more money and never have to drive it. 

I really can't see any reason not to do so. 

AWSX1686 (Forum Supporter)
AWSX1686 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
12/2/21 2:42 p.m.

I mean if someone is paying me to take a car, I'll take pretty much any car... Likely straight to the scrap yard, but hey. 

That said, no VW, Audi or Jeep for me. Certain ones tempt me a little every now and again, but no. I refuse. 

Chris_V
Chris_V UberDork
12/2/21 3:28 p.m.
AWSX1686 (Forum Supporter) said:

That said, no VW, Audi or Jeep for me. Certain ones tempt me a little every now and again, but no. I refuse. 

I can see why you'd want to turn down a free or paid for one of these (this are a couple of the 30 I had):

I mean, they ARE addictive.

APEowner
APEowner GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
12/2/21 3:37 p.m.

Back when my wife was my girlfriend she came with a Dodge Aries K car.  When the head gasket went (as they were wont to do) I happened to have the Crane Cams catalog open for another project and noticed that they had several cams for the 2.2L in the Dodge.  Naturally, I ported the head and intake, replaced the electronic carb with one of the tricked out Holley/Webers left over from a hot rod Pinto engine project and removed the cat.  It was still a crappy FWD econobox but it was a lot more fun to drive.

I still don't want one however.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
12/2/21 4:27 p.m.
stroker said:

Almost anything Renault.  I qualify that because I don't know the whole historical Renault model line.  They might have made something worthwhile, but if they did, I'm not familiar with it.

There are quite a few worthwhile models.

Renault Clio V6

Apline A310

Alpine A110

Renault 5 Turbo

Plus a ton of other hot hatches like Megane RS, Clio Williams, etc. Renault has made a crap ton of cool cars. We just never got them.

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
12/2/21 5:44 p.m.

Not much i wouldn't take.  Though my wife hates the Suzuki x90. She calls it the stupid car. 

CJ Cougar Mellonbelly III
CJ Cougar Mellonbelly III GRM+ Memberand Dork
12/2/21 6:42 p.m.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

I had an diesel Olds Delta 88 wagon that was great (slow, but great) when it worked. 

I had a hard time finding heads that weren't cracked between the valve seats.  Maybe that didn't matter...?

Stefan (Forum Supporter)
Stefan (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/2/21 6:49 p.m.

In reply to CJ Cougar Mellonbelly III :

The cracks between the valve seats is relatively common (especially on the turbo engines) and as long as they aren't leaking or causing the seats to fall out, won't cause a problem. 

The later 89+ heads were cross-drilled at the cooling passages between the siamesed cylinders and the block which helped improve cooling and reduced this issue considerably.

The 2.6L Mitsubishi motor, on the other hand, had huge cracking problems due to Chrysler's insistence on including the air injection ports.

Mr. Peabody
Mr. Peabody UltimaDork
12/2/21 7:08 p.m.

Was there not a guy who used to build those Diesel motors for gas/drag applications with really good results? Joe Mondello maybe?

ddavidv
ddavidv UltimaDork
12/3/21 8:08 a.m.

I've been gone for a few pages, so  probably missed this one. I loathe most all French cars, but there isn't much worse than a French car re-engineered to be a USA made French car.

How I learned Motor Trend's Car Of The Year award was 'bought' rather than earned:  this pile of excrement was named COTY.

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter)
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
12/3/21 1:45 p.m.

In reply to 93EXCivic :

Psst.  Being a pedant, Alpine weren't part of Renault until 1973.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
12/3/21 2:03 p.m.
Stefan (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to CJ Cougar Mellonbelly III :

The cracks between the valve seats is relatively common (especially on the turbo engines) and as long as they aren't leaking or causing the seats to fall out, won't cause a problem. 

The later 89+ heads were cross-drilled at the cooling passages between the siamesed cylinders and the block which helped improve cooling and reduced this issue considerably.

I thought they stopped making the Olds Diesel long before 1989.  Don't think there ever was a turbo engine.

 

The Olds engine was basically a gas engine (dating back to the 330 (?) from 1955!) with thick cylinder walls, high compression heads, and a fuel pump.  Not designed to be a Diesel at all.

 

funny quote:

 The California Air Resources Board (CARB) had been unable to certify the diesel V8 for sale in the state in 1979 and early 1980, as the test cars issued to CARB broke down before the tests could be completed. Of the nine cars supplied to CARB, all suffered engine problems and seven had transmission failures.[

Saron81
Saron81 HalfDork
12/3/21 3:12 p.m.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :

The alternator comes out of the wheel well (like most 4v v6 fwd Fords.) Not that bad, especially at eye level on a lift. The starter in the valley is a pain though... I had 3 of them in the early 00s. They were fun cars in their day, handled well, and sounded great, even if they are a little slow by todays standards. I'd have another one if they weren't all rusted out or made with disintegrating  wiring, lol.   

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
12/3/21 3:34 p.m.
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to 93EXCivic :

Psst.  Being a pedant, Alpine weren't part of Renault until 1973.

Fair enough but still lots of cool Renaults.

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter)
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
12/3/21 3:56 p.m.

In reply to 93EXCivic :

Totally in agreement on cool cars.  I have more respect for old Renaults than most on here, as I knew them as perfectly acceptable vehicles that stood the test of time.  My girlfriends parents had a Renault 11 when new (bastardized as the Alliance over here), and both 5's Fuego's were cool, especially the turbos.  Not as cool as a Capri or Manta, both of which were RWD before I discovered how much fun FWD could be, but good cars all the same.  Something about the translation across the pond to here seems to have made them crap mobiles.  It may have been the AMCification of them, as honestly everything AMC ever made was crap (sorry Javelin), it may be the lack of training for the dealers here, the ham fistedness of the mechanics at the time when confronted with anything more delicate than a boat anchor.  I don't know.  But as I said in the Aliance convertible thread, when cars crossed the Atlantic in either direction back then, they seemed to turn into unreliable laughably bad E36 M3boxes.

Least we forget.  Renault 11 turbo's were also group A rally and race cars.

Stefan (Forum Supporter)
Stefan (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/3/21 4:07 p.m.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

I was talking about the Chrysler 2.2L in the K-car.

I don't care about the POS GM Diesel V8.

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