New manual-equipped 911 GT3 too loud for California, apparently

Colin
By Colin Wood
Jun 17, 2021 | Porsche, 911, GT3, california

According to Porsche sources who spoke with Car & Driver, the German carmaker is unable to sell new 911 GT3s equipped with the six-speed manual transmission as they exceed the state’s vehicle noise limits. GT3s configured with PDK, on the other hand, are in compliance.

How exactly does a manual transmission make the GT3 louder than the automatic? Details are scarce at the moment, though it’s believed that the manual-equipped car was designed to meet new regulations that have, of course, not gone into effect yet—leaving the new manual GT3 in violation of current regs.

Porsche noted that it’s currently working with state law enforcement to find some sort of solution. The manufacturer will also be reaching out to Californians in the unfortunate situation of having ordered a manual GT3 and giving them the option to switch to a PDK model.

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Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
6/16/21 12:31 p.m.

That doesn't really surprise me.  It seems most of the European high zoot cars are objectionable loud now, almost like the designers heard a 69 427 Camaro with chambered exhaust, and used that as a baseline. 

mr2s2000elise
mr2s2000elise UberDork
6/16/21 12:39 p.m.

Not a big deal really for CA residents. Register it in OR/SD/MT/AZ and you don't have to follow local rules or pay the taxes....

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia SuperDork
6/16/21 12:43 p.m.

stuff some steel wool  up the exhaust !

thats what we did with our old VWs that were running glasspacks !

pres589 (djronnebaum)
pres589 (djronnebaum) UltimaDork
6/16/21 12:46 p.m.

In reply to mr2s2000elise :

Yeah I mean that's illegal but sure do that.

mr2s2000elise
mr2s2000elise UberDork
6/16/21 12:57 p.m.
pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

In reply to mr2s2000elise :

Yeah I mean that's illegal but sure do that.

Well lots of people do "illegal things." All of my track buddies run no CAT Elise/Exige, and run "illegal" Ariel Atoms all over the place, and that is "illegal too." All the RHD imports here in CA are all illegal too.  Not saying legal vs illegal (you make your decisions), but just stating facts of how our lives are here in CA. 

 

In any event, I am not ashamed, that haven't paid a single dollar to CA DMV since 1995, and will never do so rest of my life. Judge me if you wish. Some of us tell the truth of how things really are. 

docwyte
docwyte PowerDork
6/16/21 1:08 p.m.

Not sure how the PDK is more quiet than the 6MT given they have the same exhaust setups...

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
6/16/21 1:21 p.m.

It's amazing that California still has the robust car scene it does with C.A.R.B. 

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
6/16/21 1:27 p.m.
z31maniac said:

It's amazing that California still has the robust car scene it does with C.A.R.B. 

The midwest would top that scene tenfold, except our cars dissolve after 7 years.

Vajingo
Vajingo HalfDork
6/16/21 1:37 p.m.
z31maniac said:

It's amazing that California still has the robust car scene it does with C.A.R.B. 

It's one more reason to never move there. As an Oregon resident, and feeling the influx of Californians escaping there right now, I have told my wife "if they bring it here, we are moving". 

GCrites80s
GCrites80s HalfDork
6/16/21 1:41 p.m.
Appleseed said:
z31maniac said:

It's amazing that California still has the robust car scene it does with C.A.R.B. 

The midwest would top that scene tenfold, except our cars dissolve after 7 years.

And we get rained or snowed on every time we want to use our cars for things other than getting to work and errands

iansane
iansane HalfDork
6/16/21 1:43 p.m.
docwyte said:

Not sure how the PDK is more quiet than the 6MT given they have the same exhaust setups...

Something to do with engine load and cylinder pressure affecting exhaust note/tone?

mr2s2000elise
mr2s2000elise UberDork
6/16/21 1:45 p.m.
z31maniac said:

It's amazing that California still has the robust car scene it does with C.A.R.B. 

Because regardless of what outsiders are led to believe, CARB doesn't have any real choke hold on enthusiasts in a real life setting .... wink

Slippery
Slippery GRM+ Memberand UberDork
6/16/21 1:48 p.m.
mr2s2000elise said:
pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

In reply to mr2s2000elise :

Yeah I mean that's illegal but sure do that.

...

In any event, I am not ashamed, that haven't paid a single dollar to CA DMV since 1995, and will never do so rest of my life. Judge me if you wish. Some of us tell the truth of how things really are. 

How did you get these plates without paying the Cali DMV?



mr2s2000elise
mr2s2000elise UberDork
6/16/21 2:33 p.m.
Slippery said:
mr2s2000elise said:
pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

In reply to mr2s2000elise :

Yeah I mean that's illegal but sure do that.

...

In any event, I am not ashamed, that haven't paid a single dollar to CA DMV since 1995, and will never do so rest of my life. Judge me if you wish. Some of us tell the truth of how things really are. 

How did you get these plates without paying the Cali DMV?



 

In CA "plates" aren't what kills us. Its the sales tax on a transfer/purchase. I refuse to pay that as does every one else. Pretty apparent if you come to a Cars and Coffee. 

Your search function posted Cars came with CA plates. OG owner paid them. I never paid them. 

Civic was $42 transfer fee. Land Cruiser is a $11 transfer fee.  Also all my flip cars, like the Bronco I have now ($19 CA fee) it isn't worth getting outside plate, when its getting flipped, because the paperwork will then show an outside state transfer when car is here - which makes it harder to sell unless I tranfer to to my LLC - in which case it makes it MORE expensive than retaining the CA plates and undervalue the car on paper. 

Of the keeper (non flip cars) My $45,000 2021 Tac0 - would be $4500 DMV CA fee.  Having it titled outside, total is $350. Quite a savings, not having CA plates. My new H1 would be $6,800 at CA DMV. Its registered in OR, pennies on the dollar.... etc etc. My Elise has had MT plates since as at that time it would be been $5,700. Wifes RCF/LX570 all have SD plates. 

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter)
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) Dork
6/16/21 2:37 p.m.

Just move to Texas. It worked for Elon Musk. 

mr2s2000elise
mr2s2000elise UberDork
6/16/21 2:40 p.m.
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

Just move to Texas. It worked for Elon Musk. 

My LA life is cheaper than Austin. 

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/16/homes/us-housing-market-offers/index.html

accordionfolder
accordionfolder SuperDork
6/16/21 6:14 p.m.

Lol, I clicked on this thread knowing what would be inside.

CyberEric
CyberEric Dork
6/16/21 6:22 p.m.

So you’re saying you under value the car on the transfer so you do t pay as much on taxes? I still have to pay the CA yearly registration fees. How do you get around that?

Ranger50
Ranger50 MegaDork
6/16/21 6:32 p.m.

Or you can have tangible land property in another state and use that address for reasons...

GCrites80s
GCrites80s HalfDork
6/16/21 7:23 p.m.

Would old Ford manual trucks fail this in reverse gear?

67LS1
67LS1 New Reader
6/16/21 9:02 p.m.
mr2s2000elise said:

Not a big deal really for CA residents. Register it in OR/SD/MT/AZ and you don't have to follow local rules or pay the taxes....

Terrible advice.

My brother in law got caught driving his gray market Porsche registered in Nevada (where he owns a home) in California. California Drivers license. He told me by the time he got done he had spent close to $100k on attorneys, fees and fines. The car was impounded for just under two years before he got it back.

A tow company near here had all his trucks registered in Oregon. California business. I don't know him but the trucks were all impounded and he went out of business.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
6/16/21 9:52 p.m.
mr2s2000elise said:

In CA "plates" aren't what kills us. Its the sales tax on a transfer/purchase. I refuse to pay that as does every one else. Pretty apparent if you come to a Cars and Coffee. 

It's 8% in Ohio to do that.

 

Of the keeper (non flip cars) My $45,000 2021 Tac0 - would be $4500 DMV CA fee.  

And?

 

Try one of the states where annual registration is tied to the car's value.  10%-ish per year, every year.

Datsun310Guy
Datsun310Guy MegaDork
6/16/21 10:04 p.m.

Further wussification (pussification) of America.

yupididit
yupididit GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
6/16/21 10:10 p.m.

In reply to mr2s2000elise :

They hating fam.

jfryjfry (FS)
jfryjfry (FS) Dork
6/17/21 5:36 a.m.

Does that mean you can't bring one into Ca if it was purchased and registered in another state?

79rex
79rex Reader
6/17/21 6:57 a.m.

bring on the super trap exhaust!

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
6/17/21 7:26 a.m.
accordionfolder said:

Lol, I clicked on this thread knowing what would be inside.

Yep.

I'll probably click on the next thread about HOAs too.  

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
6/17/21 7:59 a.m.
ProDarwin said:
accordionfolder said:

Lol, I clicked on this thread knowing what would be inside.

Yep.

I'll probably click on the next thread about HOAs too.  

Have we started discussing oil yet?

docwyte
docwyte PowerDork
6/17/21 8:58 a.m.

In reply to iansane :

that doesn't change because of the transmission.  In gear exhaust sound is the same between the two...

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/17/21 9:03 a.m.
Streetwiseguy said:

That doesn't really surprise me.  It seems most of the European high zoot cars are objectionable loud now, almost like the designers heard a 69 427 Camaro with chambered exhaust, and used that as a baseline. 

The EU has much tighter noise standards than here in the US.  Maybe they thought it would be more alluring if it were 'forbidden' in California.  

Seems like a pretty lame excuse to me, though.  As if there's a deeper problem with the car, but they use "noise" as a cover for some other failing.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
6/17/21 9:21 a.m.

In reply to alfadriver :

That is what I was stumbling on, too... Euro noise standards are fairly strict, I can't see a car failing in the US and being Euro friendly.

codrus (Forum Supporter)
codrus (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
6/17/21 9:24 a.m.
jfryjfry (FS) said:

Does that mean you can't bring one into Ca if it was purchased and registered in another state?

No, it just means that Porsche can't sell them new here.  Of course, there's a year+ long waiting list for GT3s and the people on that list aren't going to find it easy to swap their spot at a CA dealer for one in Nevada or whatever.

As for the noise limit, while it's dumb that the PDK passes and the manual fails, the testing procedure is an SAE standard.  It's just an old one that was written in the 70s/80s, which includes certain assumptions about the way automatics and manuals work that aren't really valid any more. 

 

hunter47
hunter47 New Reader
6/17/21 9:26 a.m.
jfryjfry (FS) said:

Does that mean you can't bring one into Ca if it was purchased and registered in another state?

You can bring one into CA registered somewhere else, but you can get in a lot of trouble if you're caught with a California license driving an out of state car. 

If you talk about wanting to bring it in and register it in California, cars have to be certified to be sold in California. I learned this when I was researching Exiges. 

For example this vehicle is able to be sold in California. 

VIN Verification Label Samples | mysite

However, this one is not: 

VIN Verification Label Samples | mysite

So if you didn't want to get in trouble from the rozzas and you wanted to just buy the car from out of state and register it in CA, you won't be able to.

codrus (Forum Supporter)
codrus (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
6/17/21 9:50 a.m.
hunter47 said:

So if you didn't want to get in trouble from the rozzas and you wanted to just buy the car from out of state and register it in CA, you won't be able to.

A few misconceptions in this thread.  First, if you live in another state and have another state's plate on the car, you can drive it into CA perfectly legally.  There's nobody standing at the state line checking VINs.

For emissions specificially, new cars sold here need to meet CA emissions, and CA residents are not allowed to register a car bought out-of-state without CA emissions unless that car is at least 6 months old (with certain exceptions to cover things like people who bought a new car just before moving to CA).  Once the car is 6 months old it can be registered in the state whether or not it has CA emissions.  At one point there was a one-time "smog impact fee" of around $500 for doing this, but that was ruled unconstitutional a couple decades ago.

They aren't going to let you register a car that wasn't originally federally/EPA legal, so there isn't an easy way to import Japanese cars that were never sold here.  (it *can* be done, but it requires a lot of certification of an individual car.  There are companies that specialize in doing this for R33s and the like, but it's not cheap)

Now that's all irrelevant to the question here because noise regs are not part of emissions.  AFAIK the only restriction on these cars is that until CA updates the testing provision to the newer SAE standard (under which the manual car passes) Porsche isn't allowed to sell new ones.

In theory the noise regs and SAE standard are supposed to apply to any car in the state and is the basis for writing "excessive exhaust noise" tickets.  In practice the testing specified in the SAE standard is fairly involved and requires expensive training and equipment, and they never funded a program to actually test individual cars.

350z247
350z247 Reader
6/17/21 10:35 a.m.

Just add it to the list of reasons to live somewhere else

docwyte
docwyte PowerDork
6/17/21 5:25 p.m.

Road and Track wrote about this.  Apparently it's the way Cali does the noise test, the manual stays in third gear for a WOT run. The auto is in third gear but they won't let it kickdown in gears.  So they can't go WOT with it...

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/18/21 1:25 p.m.

I am surprised Porsche is not offering a revised exhaust system that is compliant

 

Another question:  If you purchase one of these manual cars in another state and you move to CA say in a year or two will they let you register it?  Does CA have a specific list of cars that they will not allow to be registered in that state? 

Edit:  I think I answered my own question.  It looks like if you provide a title from another state and the car has over 7,500 miles on it you can register a 49 state legal car in CA.  

I can see a lucrative business opportunity that would involved a lot of "test" driving 911 GT3's

thashane
thashane GRM+ Memberand Reader
6/20/21 12:55 p.m.

In reply to mr2s2000elise :

CARB is impactful to me. Guess it's because I don't have an out of state address, or a "smog guy". And I despise the idea of converting a vehicle back every two years, just to unconvert it immediately after. 

 

codrus (Forum Supporter)
codrus (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
6/20/21 2:22 p.m.
docwyte said:

Road and Track wrote about this.  Apparently it's the way Cali does the noise test, the manual stays in third gear for a WOT run. The auto is in third gear but they won't let it kickdown in gears.  So they can't go WOT with it...

It's actually the way the SAE wrote the spec for the noise test :)

 

mad_machine (Forum Supporter)
mad_machine (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/20/21 10:33 p.m.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
mr2s2000elise said:

In CA "plates" aren't what kills us. Its the sales tax on a transfer/purchase. I refuse to pay that as does every one else. Pretty apparent if you come to a Cars and Coffee. 

It's 8% in Ohio to do that.

 

Of the keeper (non flip cars) My $45,000 2021 Tac0 - would be $4500 DMV CA fee.  

And?

 

Try one of the states where annual registration is tied to the car's value.  10%-ish per year, every year.

Glad NJ doesn't do that.  You pay by weight class.  My Abarth was $45 and the Disco was $80

67LS1
67LS1 New Reader
6/21/21 7:59 a.m.

Where my BIL got in trouble was he had homes in both California and Nevada. His car was plated in Nevada but he had a California drivers license. Someone turned him in or a dick cop saw the Nevada plates over a period of time of more than 30 days and pulled him over. You only have 30 days to register a new purchase, new or used, in California and since he had a California DL, it hit the fan.

Nevada at the time didn't have an issue with gray market cars so he registered it there and had he a Nevada drivers license it wouldn't have been an issue. Anyone from another state can drive their cars in California. There are no border checks (other than for fruits and vegetables). But if you move here or live here and buy an out of state car you need to register your car here. Common sense to me.

On another note, I bought a new 2009 Mini Cooper JCW from Minneapolis because I got it for MSRP and the dealers here were all adding $4-6000 over. Flew back and drove it home, went to the DMV and registered it. No problem. I even saved more money because when it came time to pay the sales tax the lady asked me "what's it worth?". I started to say "I paid.." and she stopped me and said " I didn't ask you what you paid for it, I asked you what it's worth. If you drove it from Minneapolis it's no longer a new car". Knowing that cars lose approx 25% as soon as you leave the lot I gave her a number about 25% less than what I paid and that's what I paid sales tax on.

350z247
350z247 Reader
6/21/21 8:02 a.m.

In reply to 67LS1 :

I even saved more money because when it came time to pay the sales tax the lady asked me "what's it worth?". I started to say "I paid.." and she stopped me and said " I didn't ask you what you paid for it, I asked you what it's worth. If you drove it from Minneapolis it's no longer a new car". 

Now that's my kind of government employee! 

APEowner
APEowner GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
6/21/21 10:15 a.m.
dean1484 said:

I am surprised Porsche is not offering a revised exhaust system that is compliant

Somebody screwed up by not checking compliance earlier in the game.  At this point designing and certifying a revised exhaust system is likely more expensive than giving up a handful of sales in CA.  Since Porsche doesn't build very many cars in the first place they'll likely sell them elsewhere anyway.  In fact, I know a couple of guys who'd buy them just so they can brag about owning a car that's too loud to sell in California.

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