Next generation Miata likely to be electrified

Colin
By Colin Wood
Jun 24, 2021 | Mazda, Miata, electric, MX-5

Photograph Courtesy Mazda • Illustration by Colin Wood

Like a growing number of manufactures, Mazda recently announced its plans to start shifting towards an electrified lineup, stating that “100% of our products will have some level of electrification, and our EV ratio will be 25% by 2030.”

[All-electric Mazda MX-30 bound for North America]

If Mazda plans to wean itself of the internal combustion engine, what, then, will become of the beloved Miata, the stalwart affordable sports car?

Well, according to motor1.com, Mazda confirmed that the next-gen Miata will be electrified in some way–be it a full EV or electric hybrid:

"Mazda is seeking to electrify the MX-5 Miata in an effort to have all models feature a form of electrification by 2030. We will work hard to make it a lightweight, affordable, open two-seater sports car in order to meet the needs of customers."

So yes, the Miata will live on–at least for now. The real question, though, is whether or not that hybrid or all-electric Miata will live up to its now legendary name.

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jimgood
jimgood New Reader
6/24/21 9:42 a.m.

Where's the puke gif?

volvoclearinghouse
volvoclearinghouse PowerDork
6/24/21 9:44 a.m.

If anyone is going to offer the first mass-production, widely-available manual transmission electric car, Mazda will.  *fingers crossed*

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
6/24/21 9:52 a.m.

That would be.... unfortunate.

Realistically, I am not sure they could get a powerful enough battery pack that small yet. In 8 years?  
 

If they don't have some sort of electrics to offer in 8 years though, they will very much be behind the times.

calteg
calteg Dork
6/24/21 9:56 a.m.

Curious to see where battery tech is by the time this happens. The miata community lost their minds when the ND2 got a 25hp bump. I feel like you could add an additional 30hp from electric and manage to keep the weight down.

foshjowler
foshjowler New Reader
6/24/21 10:01 a.m.

The engine hasn't ever been the Miata's strength. I'm sure it will still be a small, tossable convertible, which is all it needs to be.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/24/21 10:06 a.m.

Cross-posted from the other thread:

 

I put very little faith in Miata news stories unless there's a Mazda press release involved, and Mazda does not comment on future product. 

Mazda has been chasing torque in the little thing for the past 15 years, so a bit of hybrid assist would not be surprising. Not full on plug-in hybrid, more of a KERS level. Especially if it's going to show up in the next generation, which may be introduced in the next 3-4 years if previous lifespans are to be believed.

Driven5
Driven5 UltraDork
6/24/21 10:06 a.m.

Interesting. Last I heard, Mazda believed that their ICE advancements would keep up with BEV's... I wonder if the implication is that BEV technology is simply advancing faster than they had expected, or they're not making the strides they had hoped for?

However, a large part of all of this is the overall emissions side, and I'm not sure that the well-to-wheels of electric power generation is improving that dramatically. So perhaps just a marketing move, or are ICE emissions requirements tightening that quickly too?

Rons
Rons GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
6/24/21 10:07 a.m.

My understanding is that Mazda and Toyota aren’t married but sure are dating. Toyota is set to bring solid state batteries to the market https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Most-read-in-2020/Toyota-s-game-changing-solid-state-battery-en-route-for-2021-debut so to paraphrase Roxy Music “can you guess the rest?”

spudz76
spudz76 New Reader
6/24/21 10:10 a.m.

If they could keep the weight down and add some form of lightweight system that added 30 lb/ft, that would be awesome.  Especially if they kept the batteries down low and helped the CoG

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/24/21 10:13 a.m.
Driven5 said:

Interesting. Last I heard, Mazda believed that their ICE advancements would keep up with BEV's... I'm guessing BEV technology is advancing faster than they had expected.

It's easy to forget how small Mazda is. They don't have the development resources to do a bunch of concurrent work - from the outside, it looks very much like it's one project followed by another. It's possible that regulatory changes encouraging BEV use are making them more desireable, and of course things DO change with time. They're definitely running a little behind on electrification.

Jerry
Jerry PowerDork
6/24/21 11:38 a.m.
spudz76 said:

If they could keep the weight down and add some form of lightweight system that added 30 lb/ft, that would be awesome.  Especially if they kept the batteries down low and helped the CoG

I'm in if they do it well.  Decent range, instant torque, low weight, not ridiculous charge times.  Hell I'll plug it in every night like my cellphone and watch if needed.  (For those lamenting the loss of ICE you can still make vroom vroom noises while you drive it.)

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/24/21 11:42 a.m.

"Plug it in every night like my cellphone" is exactly how you treat an electric car.

captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
6/24/21 11:45 a.m.

I for one welcome our FlyEn' Miata overlords. 

wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L)
wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
6/24/21 11:46 a.m.

Time marches on. Fuel injection wasn't the endgame everyone seemed to think it would be. Neither will electrification be. My hope is that Mazda maybe makes something that isn't as "smart" as the Tesla. (Read: not in need of an internet hook-up.)

pres589 (djronnebaum)
pres589 (djronnebaum) UltimaDork
6/24/21 11:47 a.m.

I don't see anything wrong with getting motors and such from Toyota although there's always that fear of getting owned by your suppliers in a situation like that.  Happens with aircraft companies... but generally speaking, it seems like if Mazda wants its car's electric motor to feel different from a Toyota's, they just change software.  Leverage the hard work of the big corporation to do this stuff, focus on the rest of the car.  

One of the three projects that has me wanting to get a home shop together is to electrify a Miata, probably an NC1.  This just validates my general vision.  

captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
6/24/21 11:49 a.m.

In reply to Rons :

With Toyota having the 86, I'd be somewhat surprised if they were to assist much on the mx-5 side of things. That being said, if they were to say, hey Mazda could you utilize this turbo 3 cylinder that we developed for the Yaris GR and are going to put into the corrolla for the next generation Miata, and you should add a hybrid system to eliminate turbo lag, like a cornfield, I'd be all ears. 

edwardh80
edwardh80 Reader
6/24/21 12:00 p.m.

Thought this was a joke. Then realised it wasn't April 1

Shaun
Shaun GRM+ Memberand Dork
6/24/21 12:10 p.m.

Besides the great content, I really enjoy GRMs cheesy jokes and purposefully slap dash graphics- And I have no problem at all with a fully baked electric Miata.

79rex
79rex Reader
6/24/21 12:18 p.m.

And they will pair it with the rotary they"ve been rumored to be working on  *wakes up from dream*

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/24/21 12:38 p.m.

You could do something like Mercedes did in the s400 hybrid.   Replace the torque converter or in this case the flywheel with an electric motor and put a light-weight, high-capacity lithium-ion battery in the trunk (just like the Merc did. The system was used to assist in acceleration and could also rejen. It was not meant to power the car full time it instead only assisted when the ICE was the least fuel efficient. 

Put this in a Miata and add 50/50 torques and hp off the line or when pulling out of corners would be a game changer for Miata. 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/24/21 12:46 p.m.

I think that's a great way to add hybrid assist. As a bonus, the "flywheel" can act as a starter and an alternator.

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/24/21 12:49 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Did not even think of that. That would work really well. 

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/24/21 12:50 p.m.

I would also suspect it could be used in an all electric mode for very short distances. You know when you want to sneak out with out waking  up the people in the house. 

Ian F (Forum Supporter)
Ian F (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
6/24/21 12:58 p.m.

It'll come down to how it's done.  The idea of an EV or hybrid MX-5 isn't necessarily bad and it may be required in order for the model to survive. Mazda seem to have a pretty good handle on making sure they keep the essence of what makes a MX-5 a "Miata."  

nocones
nocones GRM+ Memberand UberDork
6/24/21 1:06 p.m.

I've said it elsewhere but I really think that current generation or cars launching this year will be the last that are considered traditional gas engined manual Transmission sports cars.  Many will say that ship sailed already but I don't think you will be able to buy anything like the current Miata or next gen GT86/BRZ (or other similar MT cars) in 5 years.  

I don't doubt that there will be fun to be had and exciting engaging cars of some type but I think we have reached an intersection of environmental policy, consumer trends, business market, and FMVSS that make producing cars like that very difficult if not impossible.   

It's not doom and gloom it's just reality. 

Any future on road start-ups will be forced into electric vehicles (which ironically makes it easier for them to exist so that's a benefit).   

Excuse me while I go configure a new BRZ and put it on order..

Vajingo
Vajingo HalfDork
6/24/21 1:08 p.m.

A Prius weighs about 3,000. If they used the electric system from that, it would be easy to get an electric Miata under 3k.

captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
6/24/21 1:26 p.m.

If it balloons the weight up to the 2600lb range but lowers the COG to increase mechanical grip and makes 0-60 come down to the 4.7-5.2 range and makes for mileage in the 45 mpg range, I'd be complaining all the way to the dealership, deposit in hand. 

 

Just don't give it some much power that a dual clutch option is faster than a manual in all situations. Some of us mere morals enjoy driving. Miata gets this, they're one of two manufacturers that I trust in this regard. 

clutchsmoke
clutchsmoke UltraDork
6/24/21 2:20 p.m.
dean1484 said:

You could do something like Mercedes did in the s400 hybrid.   Replace the torque converter or in this case the flywheel with an electric motor and put a light-weight, high-capacity lithium-ion battery in the trunk (just like the Merc did. The system was used to assist in acceleration and could also rejen. It was not meant to power the car full time it instead only assisted when the ICE was the least fuel efficient. 

Put this in a Miata and add 50/50 torques and hp off the line or when pulling out of corners would be a game changer for Miata. 

There's a company doing exactly this for Porsche 911s. It would be great in a Miata.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
6/24/21 8:41 p.m.
Driven5 said:

Interesting. Last I heard, Mazda believed that their ICE advancements would keep up with BEV's... I wonder if the implication is that BEV technology is simply advancing faster than they had expected, or they're not making the strides they had hoped for?

However, a large part of all of this is the overall emissions side, and I'm not sure that the well-to-wheels of electric power generation is improving that dramatically. So perhaps just a marketing move, or are ICE emissions requirements tightening that quickly too?

Euro CO2 emissions killed the RX-8.

Imagine an electric RX-8.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
6/24/21 8:49 p.m.

Mazda has said publicly all their cars are going to be electric in some form or fashion by 2030 whether that is hybrid or full electric. 

thatsnowinnebago
thatsnowinnebago GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
6/24/21 9:03 p.m.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
Driven5 said:

Interesting. Last I heard, Mazda believed that their ICE advancements would keep up with BEV's... I wonder if the implication is that BEV technology is simply advancing faster than they had expected, or they're not making the strides they had hoped for?

However, a large part of all of this is the overall emissions side, and I'm not sure that the well-to-wheels of electric power generation is improving that dramatically. So perhaps just a marketing move, or are ICE emissions requirements tightening that quickly too?

Euro CO2 emissions killed the RX-8.

Imagine an electric RX-8.

"I decided to devote my life to it, and not get sidetracked by all the other bullE36M3 that life has to offer." - Cliff Burton

It'd still be a rotary of sorts!

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
6/24/21 9:27 p.m.

In reply to thatsnowinnebago :

ICEs go boing boing boing but the electric motor goes hmmmm.

 

 

 

"That rotary engine gives you quiet power!"

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
6/24/21 11:55 p.m.

Where will I install my voodoo knob?

tester (Forum Supporter)
tester (Forum Supporter) Reader
6/25/21 4:48 a.m.

There are a handful traits that make a Miata a Miata.  Light weight. Light clutch. Great shifter. Gocart-esqe steering. To sum it up, the Miata is all about driver engagement. 
 

How do you get those  attributes in an electric car? I don't see it happening. They might achieve relatively light weight compared to other electrics. I don't see driver engagement being achievable. 
 

In my mind, the electrics are sort of like a Cadillac, Lexus, or a Mercedes, fast, quiet; built for people who like high quality appliances,  zero g recliners, and status symbols. Not car enthusiasts. No offense to folks that like that sort of thing. I just don't see getting a sports car out of that formula. 

 

mblommel
mblommel Dork
6/25/21 7:16 a.m.

So the next generation will be an NE (E or electric)? 

Color me interested. I'm peripherally aware of the Toyota solid state battery developments. How do they compare to what we have now for mass / energy storage capacity? 

I could forsee a mild hybrid with a solid state battery to keep the mass down as very successful. As others have noted the instant torque addition a low rpm would be welcome. A hybrid would allow it to retain the all important manual transmission for at least another generation too. 

pointofdeparture
pointofdeparture UltimaDork
6/25/21 8:48 a.m.

In reply to nocones :

Now there are rumors of a Lexus-branded 86 hybrid going around as well:

https://www.autoblog.com/2021/06/24/toyota-gr-86/

pointofdeparture
pointofdeparture UltimaDork
6/25/21 8:54 a.m.

On the whole I am totally okay with the idea of more hybrid/EV sports car options. I don't think the CR-Z failed because a sports hybrid fundamentally won't work, I think it failed because it was poorly executed and half-assed.

I think right now we are in a phase like the transition from horseback riding to early motor vehicles. "You'll never replicate the thrill of a galloping steed, the challenge of wrangling a beast over a series of hurdles," etc...

Electric vehicles are certainly a paradigm shift but I think to say that they can't be engaging shows a lack of imagination.

wspohn
wspohn SuperDork
6/25/21 9:44 a.m.

Not sure why anyone would have a problem with a MX5 EV. They managed it on the original Tesla/Lotus platform and using previous generation battery packs, so they should be able to do it on the MX5 which isn't as small as the first gen Tesla Roadster was .

And it opens up the possibility of getting what everyone always asked for (in vain) more power.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/25/21 10:03 a.m.

Tesla made about 2500 of the original Roadsters and they were sold worldwide. They are definitely not down to GRM project car price points but are pretty close to six digits. There have been a couple of very significant hardware changes offered for them over the years, such as a battery pack with about 50% more capacity. Does that answer some of your questions? They're more akin to a Ferrari than an MG in terms of support and value and production numbers.

One of them went past Mars ;)

I like electric cars. And I like cars that make unnecessary noise, or that have torque, or that need to be wound out to perform because they have no torque, or are light, or are not light. It's possible to like all of these things, and I won't say an electric (or more likely, hybridized) Miata will be no fun until I have a chance to try one.

captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
6/25/21 10:31 a.m.

Little known fact, the backside of a dogecoin is a Tesla roadster going straight to the moon. 

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
6/25/21 11:18 a.m.

In reply to RichardSIA :

As an old geezer I love pistons and camshafts.  Their relationship to steam engines is comforting.  
     My thoughts about EV's is the reliability and basic simplicity of an electric motor compared to sliding pistons and camshafts etc. 

   It will be a good thing and the teenager that is my soul  will still have toys to play with. Thank goodness for Vintage racing!!!!  

mblommel
mblommel Dork
6/25/21 11:28 a.m.

In reply to RichardSIA :

Dude. You're going to have a difficult next 20 years. Don't give yourself an aneurysm. It's gonna be OK. 

No Time
No Time SuperDork
6/25/21 11:43 a.m.
spudz76 said:

If they could keep the weight down and add some form of lightweight system that added 30 lb/ft, that would be awesome.  Especially if they kept the batteries down low and helped the CoG

Couldn't they do that using an alternator assist like the dodge etorque?

90 - 130 lb-ft

Its technically "electrified", adds less weight than a passenger, and could provide an extra push when needed.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
6/25/21 11:56 a.m.

In reply to RichardSIA :

29% of greenhouse gases come from cars and global warming is becoming an increasing problem. Something has to change as much as it pains me to see ICE go away. 

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
6/25/21 12:16 p.m.
tester (Forum Supporter) said:

There are a handful traits that make a Miata a Miata.  Light weight. Light clutch. Great shifter. Gocart-esqe steering. To sum it up, the Miata is all about driver engagement. 
 

How do you get those  attributes in an electric car? I don't see it happening. They might achieve relatively light weight compared to other electrics. I don't see driver engagement being achievable. 
 

In my mind, the electrics are sort of like a Cadillac, Lexus, or a Mercedes, fast, quiet; built for people who like high quality appliances,  zero g recliners, and status symbols. Not car enthusiasts. No offense to folks that like that sort of thing. I just don't see getting a sports car out of that formula. 

 

Clearly you haven't driven a Tesla to lay your fears to rest.  Even the cheap mundane ones are brisk and can corner with alacrity    
   The top one, with 1020 horsepower is too fast for you.  
     Take a 427 Cobra and give it speed pills and that's the potential of electrics.  Will there be cheap, dull, electrics? Sure just like there are cheap dull ICE's. 

pointofdeparture
pointofdeparture UltimaDork
6/25/21 12:35 p.m.
RichardSIA said:

Just shopped some parts for the Morris Minor. Shocked at the sudden price increases.

IF, and it IS still an if, the "EV Revolution" actually comes to pass all support for ICE cars, classic included, will naturally diminish drastically. So the $60 headlamp switch becomes $200, or just NLA.

All those guys and gals looking to leave their cherished ICE cars to their kids or grand-kids? Um, not seeing a happy day there, the proverbial "White Elephant" comes to mind. If you are not familiar with that I think it can still be Googled, unless scrubbed for failure to be PC.

I've updated my tagline, let no one ever claim that the EV edicts were just accepted without resistance!

Stuff goes NLA for every car eventually, it's a realistic result of shifting supply and demand as time marches on. Part of the reason I tired of owning an E28 and sold it is because basic stuff is becoming impossible to find, it's not that EVs are suffocating them out of existence, they are just niche old cars. This seems kind of like blaming the iPhone because you can't buy parts for a Commodore Amiga in 2021.

Even without EVs involved there is not exactly a shortage of old tin nobody wants. The bottom fell out of the market for Model Ts as generations have gotten younger, now we are starting to see a decline in the market for old British cars, etc. Times change, tastes change, and people generally are enthusiastic about the stuff that was cool when they were young, not the stuff that was cool when their grandparents were young.

I get that you are not a fan of EVs but it seems like you are placing a lot of blame on their shoulders for things that are really more circumstantial in nature.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
6/25/21 12:37 p.m.
volvoclearinghouse said:

If anyone is going to offer the first mass-production, widely-available manual transmission electric car, Mazda will.  *fingers crossed*

A shiftable transmission doesn't make sense for electric motors, but I guess if you really wanted, you could get a mod with an H gate "shifter" that reduces torque by 20-30% with every "upshift".

pointofdeparture
pointofdeparture UltimaDork
6/25/21 12:51 p.m.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

I could see Mazda doing something with paddle-adjustable regen braking that's pretty fun, or maybe using a 2-speed transaxle like the Taycan and allowing a degree of driver involvement.

Shaun
Shaun GRM+ Memberand Dork
6/25/21 12:54 p.m.
93EXCivic said:

In reply to RichardSIA :

29% of greenhouse gases come from cars and global warming is becoming an increasing problem. Something has to change as much as it pains me to see ICE go away. 

EPA figures

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/25/21 1:25 p.m.
pointofdeparture said:

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

I could see Mazda doing something with paddle-adjustable regen braking that's pretty fun, or maybe using a 2-speed transaxle like the Taycan and allowing a degree of driver involvement.

Drivers haven't needed to be involved with spark advance for a long time, and somehow we've adapted to that level of disconnection :) Trying to paste irrelevant attributes from one power type on to another is avoiding the characteristics of the actual power type. I don't have rabbit ears on my streaming TV set even though hanging bits of aluminum foil off the antenna was a big part of the rabbit ear experience!

Now, if the car is a hybrid, some way to trigger harvesting in a straight line would be interesting. It is a legitimate way to be involved in the hybrid driving experience - give up some straight line acceleration to store power for later, when it can be deployed at your command. That's the right sort of involvement for this kind of car, not a patched on simulation of an obsolete and redundant control from bygone days.

pointofdeparture
pointofdeparture UltimaDork
6/25/21 1:32 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Hey now, let's not forget that some automakers are sticking big fugly grilles on the front of EVs to preserve some ICE characteristics! wink

I haven't been lucky enough to get behind the wheel of an EV yet so I don't have any hands-on experience and am just thinking out loud, but I would like to try an i3 or Bolt or something soon to get a better feel for the changes.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/25/21 1:39 p.m.

The grille lobby is powerful in the automakers :) They're still trying to figure out how to give EVs a face while the ICE cars are going all-in on maximum grille. There is some internal stress in the styling departments!

The experience is no fuss BAM acceleration right now. You can hear some whining as power is deployed and I personally get quite a bit of satisfaction out of feeling the car regenerate and save all that energy to do it again. What you don't get is weird power curve bumps or vibrations. Without all the fuss it can seem a bit clinical if that's a core part of the experience to you. People use the term "golf cart" disparagingly but who hasn't had fun with a golf cart? 

Basically, you get to decouple management of the machine from driving the machine. 

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia SuperDork
6/25/21 3:26 p.m.
Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:

It'll come down to how it's done.  The idea of an EV or hybrid MX-5 isn't necessarily bad and it may be required in order for the model to survive. Mazda seem to have a pretty good handle on making sure they keep the essence of what makes a MX-5 a "Miata."  

is there a thing like Performance Hybrid" ?

the ICE is used mostly in the city and also stop and go freeway  up to 20mph or so , then the performance gasoline motor kicks in  , 

Like a Prius with a Turbo motor......

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/25/21 3:48 p.m.

F1 cars are performance hybrids. So are a bunch of recent hypercars from McLaren, Ferrari and BMW. The ability to move under pure electric power isn't the point, it's the ability to capture, store and deploy extra energy that matters.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
6/25/21 3:53 p.m.

In reply to RichardSIA :

Please show me sources that show that global warming isn't happening and that internal combustion engines are not contributing to that. 

I don't understand how what I said is a political statement. 

RobertHess
RobertHess GRM+ Memberand New Reader
6/25/21 4:02 p.m.

Take my check now!  But I'll also keep my NA and NC!

CyberEric
CyberEric Dork
6/25/21 4:54 p.m.

In reply to 93EXCivic :

It’s not that global warming/climate change isn’t happening, it’s the source that the EPA claims (transportation) that I feel skeptical about. There are numerous sources who put agriculture, namely beef production, as by FAR the biggest contributor to green house gases (methane). Watch the film Cowspiracy if you’re interested in learning more.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
6/25/21 5:04 p.m.

In reply to CyberEric :

That may be well and good (or the opposite of good, but you know) but we can address CO2 and H2O production right now, incrementally.  We're still working out labgrown steaks, and people react violently to the idea that maybe it would be a good idea to eat less meat so that idea is already a nonstarter.

psteav (Forum Supporter)
psteav (Forum Supporter) Dork
6/25/21 5:51 p.m.

In reply to RichardSIA :

Okay, Boomer.  

 

BuT tHeRe'S nO ScIeNtIfIc CoNsEnSuS....except there is, and there has been for a while.  And the 4% of scientists who say otherwise get a lot  of funding from oil companies and others with vested interests in keeping things the way they are....at least for the next 20 years.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
6/25/21 7:12 p.m.

In reply to psteav (Forum Supporter) :

"When was the last time you ever saw any scientists ever agree on ANYthing?"

It's only "political" because the people who resist change want to make it so.  Sad thing is, it's not the 30s and 40s anymore, and there's something like four TIMES as many people on the planet as there were back then, and the poorest percentage are able to live close to the lifestyle of the richest percentage back then.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
6/25/21 7:16 p.m.

In reply to RichardSIA :

First if it was really all about money for the scientist don't you think the rich fossil fuels would have stopped it by now. 

Second please show me all these studies that are so ignored. 

Third lets just assume you are correct and 96% of scientist are wrong. We know that burning fossil fuels releases lots of chemicals/gases that are harmful to human health and the environment. Is having cleaner air really that terrible? 

tester (Forum Supporter)
tester (Forum Supporter) Reader
6/25/21 7:21 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

Tesla is exactly what I described. Silent. Fast. Appliance. Status symbol. Zero engagement. Seriously. It's the damn poster child. 
 

Fast does not equal engaging. 

Snrub
Snrub Dork
6/25/21 7:30 p.m.

The Nissan Leaf's base battery pack is ~650lbs. If power density was improved by say 50%, I think the range could be reduced some and you could cut the battery weight significantly. I think a 2600-2700lbs EV Miata could be compelling.

Big money is being invested into batteries. I think it's reasonable to assume we'll continue to see constant, gradual improvements.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
6/25/21 7:47 p.m.

In reply to tester (Forum Supporter) :

I don't disagree that currently there are no electric cars that interest me.

But two counter points. What percentage of new cars sold are actually engaging to drive? A very small percentage so of course electrical cars are going to follow that tread when you consider how few are currently really sold. To build a sports car or hot electric hatch is a niche within a niche. 

Also pretty much all new technology starts in status symbol level cars. Think how many technologies first appeared on high end sports cars or the S class or Caddys because that technology is expensive so it has to be on an expensive car. It trickles down. 

Also it should be pointed out that Mazda has said every thing they make will have electrification by 2030. That includes hybrids. 

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
6/25/21 8:12 p.m.

In reply to RichardSIA :

So your whole argument is I think it isnt happening so it must not be. You have convinced me. Good job. 

MrJoshua
MrJoshua UltimaDork
6/25/21 8:17 p.m.

Mazda could really easily do the motor/alternator setup. That doesn't require a huge pack and should be able to give a nice torque boost. The EAssist setup in a malibu gave an extra 15 horsepower and 79 ft lbs of torque way back in 2011. 

 

The pack would be smaller now as the pack in the pic is NiMh:

 

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
6/25/21 9:37 p.m.

Stefan (Forum Supporter)
Stefan (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
6/26/21 12:54 a.m.

In reply to RichardSIA :

Yes.  If you make a claim, back it up with DATA.  Otherwise it's just an opinion and you can take it and put it where it belongs.

since you're not buying new cars and even basic TBI cars throw you for a loop, why the eff do you care?  You are not the people they are selling cars to.

BTW, that Buick that you trouble with?  Think how much easier it would have been to deal with if it had been electric.  Fewer moving parts, better diagnostics, etc.

Nah, let's just piss in EVERYONE'S Wheaties because you don't want to bother to learn about it or understand things that are different than carbs/points.

mblommel
mblommel Dork
6/26/21 8:02 a.m.

It's been over a century since we switched from horses to those newfangled auto-mobiles and you can still go ride a horse if you want. I'm willing to bet any luddite who desires to have a carburated ICE will be able to do so for the foreseeable future. The rest of us will be passing by going much faster and buying a lot less gas or none at all. 

The latest round of hypercars e.g. McLaren Speedtail, employ hybrid systems to great effect. I'm interested to see how Mazda trickles down this sort of technology to the masses. I'm willing to bet they'll do a great job on the next Miata, because the last 4 generations established a pretty amazing track record. 

Dont want an hybrid or E-Miata? Go buy an old one, they only made a couple million. wink

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
6/26/21 8:34 a.m.

Oh, I think there will continue to be significant progress on the battery/power pack front, based on nothing more than I expect it. Had you told me about some of our current technology when I started university in 1970 I'd have laughed at you for believing in pipe dreams, yet here we are. My mother tells me about the first time she ever saw an airplane overhead, I'll tell you about the first time I saw a pocket calculator, and my grandsons will tell their children about the first nuclear powered car they saw. There will be progress, just not the same as Popular Mechanics predicts.

captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
6/26/21 9:26 a.m.

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

History repeats itself and yet the future always continues to surprise us. In the 80s VHS defeated the superior betamax format due to the porno industry producing films for distribution on VHS tapes. 

And 40 years later nobody thinks that the most technological advance in that timeframe is having a device in your pocket with a 4-5" screen that can view or even produce and publish pornographic content at nearly any and all times. At least of course until it's pointed out. Then they have to give pause to attempt to think about a greater advancement. 

If setting advance and gapping plugs is peaking out your own window waiting for the mail to come to see if today is the day that the latest Playboy was delivered. EVs are throwing on an occulus rift, plunging your gentleman's sausage into a glory hole and strapping in for the ride. 

 

 

I look forward to the endorphin release caused by future miatas. 

Snrub
Snrub Dork
6/26/21 1:24 p.m.

50%+ improvement in battery capacity vs weight in the last decade (further evolution/ideas also discussed, eluding to some stuff others referenced). www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2020/11/07/how-to-hybridise-batteries-and-supercapacitors

Massive reduction in battery costs. https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/03/31/lithium-battery-costs-have-fallen-by-98-in-three-decades

 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/26/21 2:22 p.m.

That's the way I think it's going to go, battery evolution instead of revolution. ICE went the same way. 

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
6/26/21 3:11 p.m.

In reply to captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :

LOL....I think there's a writer's job for you someplace....maybe SNL.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
6/26/21 3:48 p.m.

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

He's not wrong though.  Betamax was a technically superior product, but Sony wanted a cut for every tape sold, which made them a little more expensive (for context, prerecorded VHS were in the $120 range, blank tapes were $20-25... in the early 80s), but primarily they did not want to license certain types of content, so porn HAD to go to VHS.  So people bought VHS.

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
6/26/21 4:17 p.m.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

I'm not suggesting he was wrong, but the style and wording of the post made me laugh.

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