Will 2JZ power make this Chevy Malibu a surefire low-buck champion? | #LowBuckWednesday

In reply to Colin Wood :

Same power for massively less money using the trailblazer/Envoy  Atlas engine.  (4.2 liter) 

  Our own     Calvin Nelson. Made 824 hp on a stock unopened junkyard engine with 175,000 miles on it.   Just a pair of reground cams and E85 fuel. 
 

There are 2Jz from the Lexus that can be had very cheaply from a junkyard without paying Supra tax. 

And significantly smaller, too, which feels weird to say about the 2JZ.

The Atlas is a behemoth!

In reply to Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) :

Well since we are talking about various brands the  Jaguar 3.6 and 4.0  are all aluminum not a cast iron block like the Toyota  yet 4 valve per cylinder,   reliable,  and even has an optional supercharger available.   
     While most were automatics some used a ZF 5 speed. 
   Going rate for running junkyard ones is in the $400 range.  
 The advantage over the Atlas is it has solid lifters instead of hydraulic and a rear sump oil pan. 

Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) said:

There are 2Jz from the Lexus that can be had very cheaply from a junkyard without paying Supra tax. 

I've never measured a 2JZ,  what is it's size compared to the Atlas?   How much extra does the cast Iron Block weigh?  
ps: Calvin was able to get an Atlas in a Fiat and a Datsun 260Z 

 oops I was wrong.  Going price of the Jag 4.0 Jag  is starting around $200. They come in 2.8-3.2 3.6 & 4.0 sizes   I suspect only the 3.6 & 4.0 came here.  

In reply to frenchyd :

I have not measured one but from a guesstimate, the bore spacing and deck height are similar to that of contemporary mid sized four cylinders.  So bore spacing in the 90-94mm range and deck height in the 220-230mm range.

The crankshaft is a work of art.

Edit: bore spacing 92mm, cannot find accurate deck height measurement but 86mm stroke + 142mm rod length + 38mm compression height = 266mm deck height, which is amazingly tall for a 3 liter.

For reference an Atlas has 103mm bore spacing and a 232mm deck height, which is also kind of shocking.  The engine height must all be in the cylinder head 

Also, considering the 2JZ has well known and guaranteed formulas to get them to 500-2000hp without any experimenting. And swap kits to keep fabrication and time down. While other engines might be just as stout while being cheaper. Venturing into the unknown can be time consuming and time cost a lot of money.

Can we just ban this clown already

There is no argument that you can  get huge amounts of power out of a 2jz and they aren't exactly a rare engine having had non turbo versions fitted in Darius cars like Lexus etc. basically the Japanese so motor. Being a g body Id also consider doing a Buick v6 turbo. They also produced a 4.1 bored out version of the  3.8 which is popular with hot rodders to turbo.

In reply to MotorsportsGordon :

The 4.1 block is quite a bit weaker than the '109 block used in the turbo 3.8s as well as the last few years of 231 production.  The '109 block is generally good to about 900hp or so before it will split up the middle, and you can do this with stock displacement and heads.  It's more fun with better heads and less boost, mind you, but in a turbo engine it is sensible to trade a little displacement for a lotta strength.

(looks at the 2.4l engine swapped into his once 2.5l Volvo)

I have played with a 4.3l turbo Buick but the only Buick parts were dimensions   Seriously thick casting aluminum block with the two extra rows of head bolts like the Stage II engine, appropriate heads, etc. 

The craziest thing was that the compression was bumped UP to 10:1.  There was no noticable lag on the street, and at the dragstrip it was a ridiculous weapon.  Owner was shooting for high 9s and he found 8s instead.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Thanks Pete. So roughly 208 mm longer than a 2000cc 4 cylinder.     That will also help in what will fit in what sort of question. 
  I do know that in order to fit hydraulic lifters into an Atlas engine design considerations  had to have been done made.  
    

Dead sexy vehicle, pure want. Is there a passenger seat, cause I'd ride shotgun in that any day...

Sometimes people with excellent automotive skills also have such impeccable and unimpeachably solid good taste that it just makes me smile.

yupididit said:

Also, considering the 2JZ has well known and guaranteed formulas to get them to 500-2000hp without any experimenting. And swap kits to keep fabrication and time down. While other engines might be just as stout while being cheaper. Venturing into the unknown can be time consuming and time cost a lot of money.

There are two kinds of hot rodders.  The follow the leaders, be part of the crowd sort and there are the inovators. 
    Like the first person to see the 2JZ  and recognize it's potential.  Maybe he was wandering a junk yard with a tape measure ?   A mechanic who regularly worked on them?  Who knows?  
     Yes he probably blew a few up,  but he followed the formula all hot rodders do.   If some is good, more is better and too much is just starting to get fun!   
  It's safer, easier to simply follow what others do. But not cheaper and it definitely won't make you a winner. 
     Not everything I've tried has worked and yes some things are better than others.  
     Look at Calvin Nelson. Using a junkyard Atlas with 175,000, unopened,  completely stock, except for reground camshafts. He made 824 horsepower at 30 pounds of boost.  Nope it won't take 40 pounds  a rod will saw the block almost in half. But when it did all he lost was some Time and a $200 investment.  
      The fun, the joy, is in the creation.   
   It's common knowledge that changing the intake cam timing will produce more power, while the exhaust cam will make cleaner emissions  and more torque. But the Atlas doesn't change the intake it only changes the exhaust.    So Calvin advanced the intake and then adjusted the exhaust. 
  Thst made a real big change!  

MotorsportsGordon said:

There is no argument that you can  get huge amounts of power out of a 2jz and they aren't exactly a rare engine having had non turbo versions fitted in Darius cars like Lexus etc. basically the Japanese so motor. Being a g body Id also consider doing a Buick v6 turbo. They also produced a 4.1 bored out version of the  3.8 which is popular with hot rodders to turbo.

There are a number of comparisons between the Buick and the Atlas on UTube.  Both with and without boost.  

In reply to frenchyd :

I'm not going to go back and forth with you beyond this post.

Following the formula can make you a winner; being an innovator will not guarantee you victory but sometimes you'll find victory in it. And a lot of people don't care to be innovators and just want to drive their car or have fun with it. This is why the LS and 2JZ have been the most prolific swaps in the past 25 years. Furthermore, your constant reference to what the Nelson's accomplish is unnecessary in this thread and most of the threads that you've posted in. We know what they've accomplished and while great it doesn't make the 2jz and other inline 6 engines any less viable. Just like your constant and overemphasis on your past success with the Jaguar v12 does not make other V engines unviable options.  The fun and joy is all in whoever car it belongs to deems it to be. So, yes following the crowd is indeed a good thing and clear path to success. Being innovative could possibly be the same as well. Finally, what sometimes isn't fun or joyful is you spamming the same anecdotal information on every post that you can find a slither of relevance in. 

That said, is there a build thread on this 2jz Malibu?

In reply to yupididit :

Following the formula is why circle track is full of small block Chevys with chassis based on one GM frame or another.  To the point that you can buy new A body frame horns that look just like the crappy stampings GM was putting out '73-77 

Innovative? No.  Best possible? No. Known factor so the driver can focus on driving and the rest of the team can focus on known tuning factors instead of spending half the time just reinventing the wheel? YES.

yupididit said:

That said, is there a build thread on this 2jz Malibu?

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/79-malibu-2014-challenge/83827/page1/

Nice. I drove my parents’ ’78 Malibu Classic in high school: 305 and all the blue vinyl you could eat. 

My inner 8th grader wants to dog pile on the frenchman but I know there's no purpose in it.  I don't understand the "enthusiasm" he has for a number of topics, none of which seem to interest anyone else to the same degree, but I guess we all have to have our little things to stay excited about.

Would be cool to see this car at the Challenge this year.

In reply to pres589 (djronnebaum) :

My enthusiasm is it original?  How can  I afford it.
The first time I  saw a street rod with massive tires in the back.  I loved it.  But by the time I'd seen 20 I was bored. After 100 ••••   
   

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

In reply to yupididit :

Following the formula is why circle track is full of small block Chevys with chassis based on one GM frame or another.  To the point that you can buy new A body frame horns that look just like the crappy stampings GM was putting out '73-77 

Innovative? No.  Best possible? No. Known factor so the driver can focus on driving and the rest of the team can focus on known tuning factors instead of spending half the time just reinventing the wheel? YES.

I guess  you and I have different priorities and wealth.   
   Any racing class that is developed  to the point where there is one right way to go fast.  Buy this, get that, use these. Stops being fun.   
      Plus the this, that, these, tend to be expensive.   Running in those classes requires a big bankroll. Really refined knowledge and no innovation.  
     My Blackjack ran with multimillion dollar cars. And often enough I won or did very well in spite of a budget that wouldn't keep a daily driver running.  
    I did the same with a JAGUAR XKE  V12 roadster. I bought that for $300    
     Found, scavenged, fabricated everything in it. 
     That's where the fun is. At least in my opinion. You're entitled to follow others.  I won't criticize you.  

yupididit said:

In reply to frenchyd :

I'm not going to go back and forth with you beyond this post.

Following the formula can make you a winner; being an innovator will not guarantee you victory but sometimes you'll find victory in it. And a lot of people don't care to be innovators and just want to drive their car or have fun with it. This is why the LS and 2JZ have been the most prolific swaps in the past 25 years. Furthermore, your constant reference to what the Nelson's accomplish is unnecessary in this thread and most of the threads that you've posted in. We know what they've accomplished and while great it doesn't make the 2jz and other inline 6 engines any less viable. Just like your constant and overemphasis on your past success with the Jaguar v12 does not make other V engines unviable options.  The fun and joy is all in whoever car it belongs to deems it to be. So, yes following the crowd is indeed a good thing and clear path to success. Being innovative could possibly be the same as well. Finally, what sometimes isn't fun or joyful is you spamming the same anecdotal information on every post that you can find a slither of relevance in. 

That said, is there a build thread on this 2jz Malibu?

Hear, hear. If someone’s having fun building this and a bunch of people are having fun following along, then I think we have a winning formula.