Would you rather have a Lamborghini-powered Viper or a Viper-powered Lamborghini?

Colin
By Colin Wood
May 11, 2023 | Dodge, Lamborghini, Dodge Viper, Viper, Engine swap, v10, Discussion, Lamborghini Gallardo, Gallardo

Photography Courtesy Stellantis (Viper), Lamborghini (Gallardo)

On the surface, the Lamborghini Gallardo and the Dodge Viper might not seem like they have a lot in common, but look closer and you’ll see two of the fastest V10-powered cars of the early 2000s–both even available with a six-speed manual transmission to boot. (Of course, that’s overlooking the fact that the Viper V10 has some Lamborghini DNA in it.)

Setting reality to the side for a moment, what if you could swap the V10s?

Would you rather have a Viper powered by the V10 from the Gallardo or a Gallardo powered by the V10 from the Viper?

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SV reX
SV reX MegaDork
5/11/23 12:09 p.m.

Lambo powered Viper. 
 

I think the Viper is a better looking car.

(The truth is that I probably wouldn't want either engine.  I like reliability, and neither Dodge nor Lamborghini are known for that)

wearymicrobe
wearymicrobe PowerDork
5/11/23 12:13 p.m.

Been around both and owned a few they are fine the way they are. The Gallardo would be an amazing car if they had just put the DCT from the R8 in it earlier the single clutch sucks and the manuals are hard to find and the shifter is not as nice as you would think for the price. \\

Blasphemy I know but the Viper would have survived if they had offered a DCT from the factory on the Gen V cars next to the manual and most people would have been faster on the track for it. 

matthewmcl
matthewmcl Dork
5/11/23 12:22 p.m.

Just from the standpoint of availability of maintenance parts, I would go for Viper power in the Lambo, if choosing one or the other. Bodging body panels is less critical than bodging engine parts.

Colin Wood
Colin Wood Associate Editor
5/11/23 12:32 p.m.

In reply to wearymicrobe :

A Viper with a DCT would have been brutal in the best way possible.

codrus (Forum Supporter)
codrus (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
5/11/23 1:02 p.m.

I dunno that I'd really want either, actually.

How about an S85 V10 in an E46? :)

 

93gsxturbo
93gsxturbo UltraDork
5/11/23 1:16 p.m.

The Viper V10 wasnt really engineered by Lamborghini.  Dodge was part owner of Lamborghini at the time and used the aluminum casting process that Lamborghini had familiarity with and Lamborghini helped them with the conversion of a cast iron truck engine to cast aluminum car engine, but all the Viperness is still Dodge, even the dumb "8+2" firing order.  Thats right, a Viper doesnt fire ever 72 degrees of the crank like a standard V10.  Because the engine is essentially a 360 with 2 cylinders tacked on, 8 cylinders fire at 90 degrees to each other and the last 2 fire at 54 degrees to each other.  

wearymicrobe
wearymicrobe PowerDork
5/11/23 2:10 p.m.
Colin Wood said:

In reply to wearymicrobe :

A Viper with a DCT would have been brutal in the best way possible.

Personally I think a DCT Gen V ACR would have taken the ring record and kept it some back when they were released and it would have put the car into more peoples hands. The side impact rules / airbag rules killed the car eventually but the sales numbers would have been high enough I think to justify the engineering costs. I wanted a Gen V bad but it was a half a generation improvement over the IV from a track/fun perspective. 

I would love to see a Gen VI of the viper as a final sendoff with active aero and a ECU that is a bit more open to modification but that is not going to happen. But right now you can simply buy a EVO Hurrican and get a similar experiance and have more headroom on boost and that is what most people are doing. 

 

Woody (Forum Supportum)
Woody (Forum Supportum) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/11/23 2:38 p.m.

I'd rather have a Miata powered Lotus Elan.

calteg
calteg SuperDork
5/11/23 2:57 p.m.

Viper powered Lambo

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/11/23 3:27 p.m.

Send me both for a while and then I'll tell you.

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/11/23 3:29 p.m.
93gsxturbo said:

The Viper V10 wasnt really engineered by Lamborghini.  Dodge was part owner of Lamborghini at the time and used the aluminum casting process that Lamborghini had familiarity with and Lamborghini helped them with the conversion of a cast iron truck engine to cast aluminum car engine, but all the Viperness is still Dodge, even the dumb "8+2" firing order.  Thats right, a Viper doesnt fire ever 72 degrees of the crank like a standard V10.  Because the engine is essentially a 360 with 2 cylinders tacked on, 8 cylinders fire at 90 degrees to each other and the last 2 fire at 54 degrees to each other.  

This is the most dodge thing I've ever heard.

Driven5
Driven5 UberDork
5/11/23 3:52 p.m.

Viper looks with Lambo sounds?... Yes, please!

06HHR (Forum Supporter)
06HHR (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
5/11/23 4:27 p.m.
Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:
93gsxturbo said:

The Viper V10 wasnt really engineered by Lamborghini.  Dodge was part owner of Lamborghini at the time and used the aluminum casting process that Lamborghini had familiarity with and Lamborghini helped them with the conversion of a cast iron truck engine to cast aluminum car engine, but all the Viperness is still Dodge, even the dumb "8+2" firing order.  Thats right, a Viper doesnt fire ever 72 degrees of the crank like a standard V10.  Because the engine is essentially a 360 with 2 cylinders tacked on, 8 cylinders fire at 90 degrees to each other and the last 2 fire at 54 degrees to each other.  

This is the most dodge thing I've ever heard.

I had to look it up, because the math wasn't mathing..  5 cylinders fire at 90 degrees, the other five fire at 54 degrees.  

Each piston fires once every 2 rotations, or 720 degrees.

In this scenario: 1, 10-9, 4-3, 6-5, 8-7, 2

comma = 90 degrees
dash = 54 degrees

Fire 1, rotate 90
Fire 10, rotate 54
Fire 9, rotate 90
Fire 4, rotate 54
Fire 3, rotate 90
Fire 6, rotate 54
Fire 5, rotate 90
Fire 8, rotate 54
Fire 7, rotate 90
Fire 2, rotate 54
----------------------
Tot. Degrees: 720

 

93gsxturbo
93gsxturbo UltraDork
5/11/23 4:59 p.m.

Thats also the reason that Vipers sound like UPS trucks.  Worst exhaust note ever, especially on the ones with side pipes and no crossover.  But I wouldnt trade it for anything.  

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/11/23 5:01 p.m.
Colin Wood said:

In reply to wearymicrobe :

A Viper with a DCT would have been brutal in the best way possible.

I got to drive a Viper very gingerly on public roads and my impression was that the engine did not accelerate all that well, but upshifting would accelerate the car instead of slowing the engine down.

Having a DCT would at least solve the problem of the clutch pedal's location, which is somewhere in the oncoming lane smiley  You know those foot pegs that people put on doorless Wranglers?  Imagine having to push that down to operate the clutch.  I think the accelerator pedal was in line with the steering wheel.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/11/23 5:06 p.m.
06HHR (Forum Supporter) said:
Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:
93gsxturbo said:

The Viper V10 wasnt really engineered by Lamborghini.  Dodge was part owner of Lamborghini at the time and used the aluminum casting process that Lamborghini had familiarity with and Lamborghini helped them with the conversion of a cast iron truck engine to cast aluminum car engine, but all the Viperness is still Dodge, even the dumb "8+2" firing order.  Thats right, a Viper doesnt fire ever 72 degrees of the crank like a standard V10.  Because the engine is essentially a 360 with 2 cylinders tacked on, 8 cylinders fire at 90 degrees to each other and the last 2 fire at 54 degrees to each other.  

This is the most dodge thing I've ever heard.

I had to look it up, because the math wasn't mathing..  5 cylinders fire at 90 degrees, the other five fire at 54 degrees.  

Each piston fires once every 2 rotations, or 720 degrees.

In this scenario: 1, 10-9, 4-3, 6-5, 8-7, 2

comma = 90 degrees
dash = 54 degrees

Fire 1, rotate 90
Fire 10, rotate 54
Fire 9, rotate 90
Fire 4, rotate 54
Fire 3, rotate 90
Fire 6, rotate 54
Fire 5, rotate 90
Fire 8, rotate 54
Fire 7, rotate 90
Fire 2, rotate 54
----------------------
Tot. Degrees: 720

 

Sounds like it is two inline fives (144 degree separation) with a 90 degree bank angle and shared crankpins, not split pins.

I do wonder why they didn't just make it a 72 degree vee, unless they wanted to run it down the same machining centers as LA engines.

That is the only weird Viper trivia I know: The engine is based on the LA engine.  The truck V10 is based on the Magnum.  Similar but different.  So Chrysler was making two completely different V10 engines that shared the same displacement.

wearymicrobe
wearymicrobe PowerDork
5/13/23 12:17 p.m.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
Colin Wood said:

In reply to wearymicrobe :

A Viper with a DCT would have been brutal in the best way possible.

I got to drive a Viper very gingerly on public roads and my impression was that the engine did not accelerate all that well, but upshifting would accelerate the car instead of slowing the engine down.

Having a DCT would at least solve the problem of the clutch pedal's location, which is somewhere in the oncoming lane smiley  You know those foot pegs that people put on doorless Wranglers?  Imagine having to push that down to operate the clutch.  I think the accelerator pedal was in line with the steering wheel.

They don't respond or feel right to gentle inputs I can tell you that from experience. Modified they do a bit better. Totally understand the foot box issue, I have size 13 4e feet and generally I would street drive in the thinnest shoe I could find. No clutch pedal would also let you sit a bit straighter. You look about 7-10 degrees off center in a viper in the later gen's its very weird until you get used to it. But weird especially if you have the drivers stripe painted on. 

Got to be honest both the Gallardo and the Viper feel must older then you think they are when driving them. They are dinosaurs that somehow got made in this era and I love them both. 

APEowner
APEowner GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
5/13/23 12:43 p.m.

I have no idea which I'd prefer.  I think Tom needs to buy a Viper and a Lamborghini, do the swap and let us know which is better.  You know, for science. 

A 401 CJ
A 401 CJ GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
5/13/23 3:13 p.m.
93gsxturbo said:

The Viper V10 wasnt really engineered by Lamborghini.  Dodge was part owner of Lamborghini at the time and used the aluminum casting process that Lamborghini had familiarity with and Lamborghini helped them with the conversion of a cast iron truck engine to cast aluminum car engine, but all the Viperness is still Dodge, even the dumb "8+2" firing order.  Thats right, a Viper doesnt fire ever 72 degrees of the crank like a standard V10.  Because the engine is essentially a 360 with 2 cylinders tacked on, 8 cylinders fire at 90 degrees to each other and the last 2 fire at 54 degrees to each other.  

Does anybody make a cam / ECU upgrade to make it a "real" V10?

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/13/23 3:24 p.m.

In reply to A 401 CJ :

You'd need to replace the crank, just like if you wanted to change the firing order of a crossplane V8 to that of a real V8.

350z247
350z247 Reader
5/14/23 11:11 a.m.

Lambo powered Viper. I love high RPM HP and RWD more than low end torque and AWD.

wspohn
wspohn SuperDork
5/14/23 12:59 p.m.

The Lamborghini sounds far better than the Viper engine which can't even attain the power to displacement ratio of a modest grocery getter. The original with 8.0 l engine managed 400 bhp or a whopping 50 bhp/liter.

Sadly although the Lambo engines are a neat bit of kit, I never bonded with the Gallardo, or in fact anything after the superbly styled Miura so kind of a pointless question for me.

Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter)
Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
5/14/23 1:21 p.m.

I will go with neither and stupid in a different direction. R8 dsg with a w12

jgrewe
jgrewe Dork
5/14/23 1:35 p.m.

It doesn't matter which you choose. Statistically, either way you are going to end up in a one car accident.

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