I thought it was weird that Gainesville required me to put my windows up for the drag passes.
I think windows fully up OR fully down should be acceptable.
Photography Credit: racetracker.de
Check out the shot that accompanies this blog and you’ll notice something. No, not that the driver in the recognizable helmet is handsome and suave, just doing some laps of the Nürburgring on the ol’ expense account.
Well, you might catch that part, too, but the real thing I’m talking about is the windows. Specifically, their upness.
Literally every other country I’ve tracked in has allowed or even encouraged windows up while on track. But here in the good ol’ U.S. of A., all but a scant few clubs and tracks require open windows even in the foulest of atmospheric conditions. I guess my big question here is “Why?”
And I’m legitimately curious what everyone thinks about this. Best case, maybe this can start a dialogue on why we stick with some practices without ever reexamining them.
Probably the easy reactive answer is “safety.” I guess the assumption here is that an open window makes for easier extraction of an incapacitated driver, but I’d love to see some numbers on how many drivers have actually been pulled through open windows. Seems to me if you’re in need of an extraction in the first place, a closed window is a fairly low hurdle for rescue workers to cross.
And if you’re in a late-model Camaro–or several other models of modern sports cars–you aren’t coming out that window open, closed or otherwise. So I’m not entirely buying that particular part of the safety argument.
The other argument I hear is that open windows facilitate better official-to-driver communication. I guess I can kind of see that on grid or in the pits, but I’m also not seeing a powerful argument for not rolling ’em up as you’re leaving.
Point-bys are another frequent argument I hear, and this is probably the most powerful one in favor of running with the windows down. Still, shooting your whole-ass arm out the window at 120-plus could arguably be not the safest option, either.
Of course, while we’re talking about point-bys, I’ll also give a quick mention to the other uniquely American implementation of allowing turn signals for point-bys. In the rest of the world, turn signals are the de facto option for point-bys, used in a similar manner to how you would on the road: You signal the direction you’re going to move so the overtaking driver can act accordingly.
In all the implementations I’ve seen in the U.S., though, flashing turn signals indicate the side you want the overtaking driver to overtake on. This is … not intuitive. But, the turn signal thing is for another blog. It’s more complex than I can deal with in a quick aside. Back to windows.
Here’s some bad stuff about having your windows down during track sessions:
Buffeting. Ask anyone who’s driven a current-generation Supra how it feels above about 95 mph. Even our F32-chassis BMW 4 Series is a total buffetfest from about 110 up, with things getting so bad above 125 that it’s tough to see from the buffet-induced head vibrations. At the last Daytona Track Night in America, I found myself wedging my head against one of the seat’s halo braces in an effort to keep my vision steady while on the banking. Now imagine how bad that is for someone without a proper race seat.
Weather is also a big deal. It’s much easier to control window fogging in wet conditions with the windows up and an a/c-equipped car than it is with the windows down and the car filling with water and track detritus that will NEVER come out.
A closed window also protects the driver from foreign bodies flying around on track. A bit of rubber, a rock or even a speck of sand can be havoc-inducing if it comes through the window fast enough and gets lodged in the wrong face hole at speed.
And look, I’m not here saying I’m 100% right and everyone else is wrong. I’m fully ready to admit there are some key factors I’ve missed that make windows-down track work the better and safer option, but I also see the rest of the tracking globe doing it differently and I think it’s time we had the chat.
I also realize this is kind of a street car-centric position. Working ventilation systems, turn signals and, heck, even functional windows are not always present on every car at a track day. But again, the current scene is heavily biased toward cars that I think would be just as safe if not safer should the drivers choose to run windows up.
It’s a thought, and I’m not married to it. And for the record, I am quite a fan of safety. I think anyone in a timed competition should be able to pass a timed bail-out test of their car at least on an annual basis. But again, different chat for a different column.
So what do you think? Am I dumb? (Please limit responses to that question to this particular issue at the moment.) Am I onto something here? Is there a key factor I’m missing? I’d love to hear what the rest of the U.S. on-track scene thinks about this.
I thought it was weird that Gainesville required me to put my windows up for the drag passes.
I think windows fully up OR fully down should be acceptable.
So what do BMW drivers do if they can't give point by's? I'm fairly certain those cars aren't even equipped with turn signals.
as someone who spends their fair share of time with an arm out the window, I'd love to use turn signals. And the aero advantage would be huge with the low power cars
I've often wondered the same thing. There are advantages and disadvantages to each. With that being said, why can't that be at the drivers discretion? Let the driver choose which is best suited for him or her and their car. Should be a choice in my book.
A couple thoughts:
First, flashing turn signals on the opposite side to the one you want the other driver to pass on implies that you're moving that direction, but you're not. The car being passed is supposed to hold his line and let the passing car go off-line to pass, so it's the passing car that is "moving".
Second, turn signals for passing only work if every car on track has turn signals. Purpose-built race cars usually don't, and production cars modified into race cars often have them either removed or made inoperable by other modifications (custom wiring harness, replacement of steering column, etc).
(Then, of course, we have to consider BMWs... :) )
On the topic of point-by's: rarely do I see point bys from fully built race cars, because they also happen to have safety nets over windows...
Meanwhile Hooked on Driving started to allow windows up at their track days in the US.
I've often wondered the same, but nobody is sharing the data used to come to these conclusions... If they even have it anymore. I'm guessing most clubs are playing follow the leader here too, rather than relying on their own data and independently all coming to the same conclusion. The problem with that, is that means they also don't understand the reasons and are entire unable to know whether or not those reasons actually even apply to them. So the question is, who actually has enough influence to actually make meaningful conversation happen at the organizational level here?
It could also be largely insurance based, but again, with the right data that should be something the leading org(s) should be able to drive the change.
I showed up at a advanced lapping day with a Spec Miata track only racer and was told I could not run window nets. It seemed like a large step backwards in safety...
Maybe age has addled my brain, but I could swear when I drove the 'ring the instructor has me signal on the side I wanted the passing car to pass me on, i.e. left signal = pass me on the left.
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:First, flashing turn signals on the opposite side to the one you want the other driver to pass on implies that you're moving that direction, but you're not. The car being passed is supposed to hold his line and let the passing car go off-line to pass, so it's the passing car that is "moving".
As I've recently discovered, at least once you throw a large number of cars with a significant performance gap in a w2w environment, holding 'your' line is not necessarily the same as holding 'the racing' line. In my mind, signaling like that wouldn't be telling them what direction you're 'moving', so much as what type of line they should expect you to hold.
sobiloff said:Maybe age has addled my brain, but I could swear when I drove the 'ring the instructor has me signal on the side I wanted the passing car to pass me on, i.e. left signal = pass me on the left.
Nope. Standard is to signal the intent of your car, not to give directions to another car. Right signal = I'm going (or staying) right. Left is I'm going/staying left. It's actually in my handbook from my licensing class.
Displaying 1-10 of 58 commentsView all comments on the GRM forums
You'll need to log in to post.
