Is this gonna take you away from the Elva MK VI ? Yes I'll be following along....
Why is there a vintage Mustang project in Grassroots Motorsports? Because here’s a cool, fun way to get on track–and in something that’s fairly fast and intoxicating. (Hey, there's something about a small-block Ford singing at full chat.)
For years we’ve gotten a funny feeling every time we see a pack of old Shelby Mustangs at an HSR race. So, we dug deeper.
In HSR, most Mustangs run in Group 5 with E-types, Cobras and Corvettes. The Group 5 rules are pretty wide open, and the players there are really serious. If you want to run at the front of the pack in Group 5, then you need to bring your checkbook: Investment in these cars can easily run into six figures and looks something like this:
We had no desire to spend that kind of money–not sure that we need a carbon fiber driveshaft to run vintage–nor did we want to spend less and build an uncompetitive car. But we found what almost looks like a loophole in the HSR rules: Certain mildly modified early Mustangs are allowed to run in Group 3, the usual home to 2.0-liter Porsches, Corvairs, MGs and Triumphs. We always say that it is more fun (and safer) to run a fast car in a slow group than to run a slow car in a fast group.
This class, called Vintage A-Sedan (Group 3/VAS), includes 1965-’70 Mustangs and 1967-’70 Mercury Cougars fitted with either small- or big-block engines. There are no weight penalties if you run a 289-cubic-inch engine. Starting with a 302-cubic-inch engine, however, adds a 100-pound weight penalty.
The rules require iron blocks and iron heads with a maximum overbore of 0.060 inch. Internal engine components are free as long as they are made from the same materials as stock. A four-speed Top-Loader or T-10 transmission is also required. As these transmissions are known to lock up in racing situations, a super T-10 transmission is allowed.
Brakes are limited to stock or near stock. Suspensions are relatively free, although remote-reservoir shock absorbers or coil-overs are expressly prohibited.
Body modifications are very limited. While you can run a Shelby R-model front apron and a plastic windshield, other than the hood, all body panels need to be steel and unmodified. So something kinda like this:
While still not a cheap date, building a car to these specs would not break our budget. With some swap meet negotiation, we could build this car for well under $50,000. And a car like this will turn lap times at Road Atlanta in the 1:40 range. At VIR we would expect lap times in the 2:10 range–about 5 seconds per lap faster than a top Spec Miata.
More to come very soon.
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Is this gonna take you away from the Elva MK VI ? Yes I'll be following along....
Very cool can't wait to see what you do
Being contrary I'd argue that if someone took a challenge approach to the car that it could be built for Spec Miata money. This is a known recipe and so one could spend time combing various websites for deals on the most expensive parts.
Tom1200 said:Very cool can't wait to see what you do
Being contrary I'd argue that if someone took a challenge approach to the car that it could be built for Spec Miata money. This is a known recipe and so one could spend time combing various websites for deals on the most expensive parts.
IMHO, the article series that Tim is starting can very much show how that is done on- the Mustang isn't the only one that has limited rule sets that define what can be done. The key to the overall budget will be the rarity of the car- like a competitive AS Porsche vs. a BS Alfa vs a CS Mini- using the same rule set allowances- the costs will be very different. And each can be very competitive.
In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :
While my post may not sound like it we are on the same page.
As I'm running a C-sedan car in with C & B-sedan group I'm keenly aware of the money spent on these cars. My thought is that given the 15-20K plus people are spending on professionally built engines that someone like Tim could assemble a SBF for way less money..................or not.
Love this!
Looking forward to this Mustang build.
I really look forward to this build. This is actually what I wanted to do before I went down the path that I am currently on where I have run my 85.5 Mustang SVO in SSB/Group 3 with HSR and MP2/Group 12b with SVRA. My very first car was a '65 Mustang with a 289 that I naturally hot-rodded and wrecked and I've always wanted to revisit that time of life, this time with a little more life experience. A VAS car is totally cool, and with the restrictions placed by the sanctioning bodies can be very cost effective. My holy grail would be to campaign a '69 Boss 302 but as you point out the allowances made for HSR group 5 historic Trans Am can really bump up the cost to build such an animal. My SVO effort has been interesting and rewarding, I have learned a lot about turbo lag and how to drive a car with a very non-linear power curve, but I do miss a V-8 at full song. I do hope to see you in my group at an event in the future though!!!
I'm excited about the series because I feel like so many people think you need mega dollars to compete in vintage races when it is possible to do at a reasonable cost.
On a sidenote I'm moving to my formula car because it is more economical to run over a heavily modified production car. The engine & gearbox costs in production cars can be rather ferocious.
I crewed for a friend with a production car years ago and spent much of a summer laying on my back replacing production parts not suited to racing. He burned buckets of money buying tires, brakes and transmissions.
Like Tom1200 I'm racing a Formula Ford. Close racing with great people at a performance level of a very quick Corvette. Much lower cost of operation, easier to service and performance of far more expensive machinery. Cost of admission from $10K to 20K for '73-81, up to 30K for a '72 and earlier. All are competitive with treaded tires. We get 30 to 50 cars here on the west coast. Fun all the way through the grid, there is always someone to race with.
In reply to Daniel Wise :
I think the GRM crew will manage to make it reliable. The other bonus is being you can buy everything from Jegs or Summit. I actually looked at parts and a new Super T10 trans is 2K, heads are $700, roller rockers are $300, forged cranks are $400, the rules noted a single 4 barrel carb, the rear disc brake kit is $600 and so there doesn't appear to be anything totally outrageous price wise.
For some folks only a V8 will do and so I'm very interested to see how the GRM Mustang turns out.
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