1960 Mercedes 180D Restoration

That Mercedes is going to be expensive to get on the road again and not really a good car to drive everyday. If you are going to have another normal car that would be one thing, but I wouldn't buy it with the intention of driving it daily. You could find a 300d, 240d, 300sd, etc that runs for not much more than that that you would be a lot happier with. I sold my old 300sd that was still in decent shape and drivable for $1200 just because is had such high miles no one would have paid more no matter how nice it was.

ToxicTurtl3 wrote: In reply to NOHOME: What do u mean "exceptional"? like an awesome kid, or really good at mechanic crap or what? (I'm not mad, just clarifying)

I mean like with the ability to take on a task of this proportion and see it to the end. I did not mean it in a bad way, but that there Mercedes is all "deep-end learning" and is going to require someone with time, money and skills to get it running. Young people with the required time money and skills are not all that common.

The flip side to this is if you do take it on, regardless of how it all ends up, you will be a much wiser person at the end. So there is no downside to you buying the car. If you do buy it, post a build thread and you will get endless support and admiration from this crowd; they are like beer vendors at an AA meeting and it wont be the first time they have watched the improbable happen.

In reply to NOHOME:

Ya I understand that it would take a time and money commitment, but ya thanks for your opinion. I'm gonna talk to a mechanic friend and get his opinion also. If I end up buying the car I'll most likely buy a tarp and keep it under a tarp until I'm able to find job and earn back some money to spend on the car. I'll post something in the build log area and post plenty of pictures of the progress.

ToxicTurtl3 wrote: If I end up buying the car I'll most likely buy a tarp and keep it under a tarp until I'm able to find job and earn back some money to spend on the car.

Please dont. A tarp will just trap in the water and accelerate the process of returning the vehicle to the earth. I can't tell you how many "rust free" car's went under tarps only to come out as scrap metal and rust. You are better off leaving it exposed to the elements.

For a first car I'd at the very least bring something home that runs and drives. Start with smaller jobs before working up to a project of that level at a later date.

In reply to JThw8:

Oh, I didn't know that!! :) How would u suggest storing it cuz I don't have room in the grauge and I have to store it outside unfortunately.

I would also suggest a 240 or 300D if you have a hankering for an old Diesel Mercedes as a first car. http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/cto/4974384974.html

http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/cto/4972671123.html

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/4971955921.html

ToxicTurtl3 wrote: In reply to JThw8: Oh, I didn't know that!! :) How would u suggest storing it cuz I don't have room in the grauge and I have to store it outside unfortunately.

Look for a breathable car cover that wont trap condensation inside or leave it uncovered. If you are going to park it on grass or dirt put the tarp UNDER it to keep the ground moisture from condensing on the underside.

In reply to JThw8:

Ok then, thanks for the tip :)

In reply to bgkast:

Thanks for the posts. I like the diesel cuz I want to try biodiesel (I won't if I get the old 1960 one) but ya, that is the reason I was interested in diesels.

JThw8 wrote:

ToxicTurtl3 wrote: In reply to JThw8: Oh, I didn't know that!! :) How would u suggest storing it cuz I don't have room in the grauge and I have to store it outside unfortunately.

Look for a breathable car cover that wont trap condensation inside or leave it uncovered. If you are going to park it on grass or dirt put the tarp UNDER it to keep the ground moisture from condensing on the underside.

Just a suggestion, but why bother to store it? The car is not unique. It is not like you have an emotional attachment to this particular car? Leave it where it is, and if it is gone when you have the time and money to work on it, go buy a different one. Maybe spend a year learning all about the particular model and how to go about the task of restoring it. That part is free and rather enjoyable compared to laying on your back covered in rusty grime.

I can tell you how to drive a Classic Mercedes for five years, and do it for FREE. This is something that you can only do with a classic, so better than a new car or a regular toaster.

Buy a good finished car that you can drive. Rather than store it and spend a lot of money restoring it, take care of it. If you bought a good car to start with, I assure you that you can sell it for what you paid in five years. You wont make money, but it will beat any other form of transportation you can buy for depreciation.

Of course, I know that you are going to tell me that you do not have the money. The answer is that rather than restore a car, you should save the money and buy the finished car. This will save you half of what you were going to spend on the restoration. It will also save you time since it would have taken you longer to save the larger amount PLUS put the hours in to restore the car.

If you are starting to get my message that car restoration is an incredibly dumb thing to do, then you are hearing right; it is. But is is rewarding in many ways, so you decide where the value proposition lies for you.

In reply to NOHOME:

Ok since your saying restoring is a waste of time, what do u think of these that I found?

http://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/cto/4965339176.html (This is probably my favorite cuz I can try out biodiesel on it)

http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/cto/4979658058.html (I like the interior and the body shape)

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/4972793294.html (This one is in the bast shape but is way out of my price range)

Those are better, although 77-85 would be the best year range for one you can actually use as an everyday car.

ToxicTurtl3 wrote: In reply to NOHOME: Ok since your saying restoring is a waste of time, what do u think of these that I found? http://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/cto/4965339176.html (This is probably my favorite cuz I can try out biodiesel on it) http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/cto/4979658058.html (I like the interior and the body shape) http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/4972793294.html (This one is in the bast shape but is way out of my price range)

You miss the point. The last one is NOT out of your price range. I myself feel that if might be a bit cheap for what you want to do with a Mercedes, but then I don't dabble in them, so cant really tell you what you can expect to pay for a "good solid needs nothing driver".

The first one is a molested child. The biodiesel blah-blah will kill any resale value. It's like ricing up a japanese car; nobody wants it afterwards.

My guess is that the car you want is going to be a bit over $10,000. If you borrow the money at 5% it will cost you $1400 in interest over 5 years. When you sell the car (assuming you did your homework and bought the right car) you get most of your money back.

When you restore a car, you buy parts retail, plus tax, plus shipping. At best, you might get retail value back when you sell, but probably less. Plus you have your time invested.

So, rather than buy and start restoring a car now, your job becomes that of researching what exact car you should buy to play this game. You are a bit all over the map at this point, other than you seem to like classic mercedes. So, go find out what models were sought after and what the issues are that apply to that model. Become an expert on the car then buy and drive. If you are not in a rust free area, seriously consider the cost to ship from one as a good investment. Nobody likes rust even if it has been repaired to a reasonable standard.

NOHOME wrote: The first one is a molested child. The biodiesel blah-blah will kill any resale value. It's like ricing up a japanese car; nobody wants it afterwards.

I don't mean to butt in, but I'm confused why you would say that. TT3 specifically points out that he wants to play with bio-diesel, and this car would fill that want pretty nicely. If they want that, and have to convert a car to run that, then the fuel lines would need changed on the new car anyway.

Besides, the ad just says that the fuel lines were changed to be ok with bio-diesel- no other conversion has been done.

I'm no fan of diesel, and don't see that bio-diesel is some magical solution (especially for a car this old). BUT the OP is. And is not the only one on this board who likes it. If the car is good, and can be driven on a daily basis, what's wrong with it? Plus the materials are robust to bio-fuel, which is a basic improvement on the car- not changing the car's ability to run pump diesel what so ever.

One thing to watch out for with W123 Mercedes (the 77-85 years) is the HVAC system they put on the fancier models. My 300TD has it, and I'm about ready to rip it all out completely and install a heater core and controls from a '75 International Scout or something. Seriously. They worked well when new, but time is no friend to them, and parts are 4 figure money these days. Don't buy anything with climate control, unless you can live with either having heat, no heat, or windows down. The 240D's are great- they had a simple heater/ AC control and it works well. But even there, if something goes back, digging through that Mercedes dash will be a major project. Some of them used 2 different blower fans.

The diesels are slow, but a 240D with a manual will keep up with traffic and be OK to DD. A non-turbo, automatic 300D/TD works pretty well, too. The turbodiesels have lag like crazy, love them some diesel, and are not as simple as the naturally aspirated models, so there's more to go wrong and more stuff under the hood to contend with.

Mercedes parts are all over the map for price. Basic mechanical stuff (brakes, tune-up parts, suspension) seem to be reasonable, but other stuff (HVAC, interior trim, anything funky/ weird/ exotic) can get up there.

If money is tight (and it sounds like it is), I really would avoid them. For a first car, or an only car, I'd look elsewhere. I drive a 300TD because I like it, my wife likes it, the baby and dog fit, I like the usefulness of the wagon, and I have 2 or 3 other running cars I can fall back on when the MB needs work.

NOHOME wrote: My guess is that the car you want is going to be a bit over $10,000. If you borrow the money at 5% it will cost you $1400 in interest over 5 years. When you sell the car (assuming you did your homework and bought the right car) you get most of your money back.

i guess that I jest don't have enough money to buy and maintain an old Mercedes and I AM NOT going to take a loan out of the bank! I really only have $3000 at the most. Maybe in the future when I'm more educated I'll come back to this and do a super badass restoration of one of the old Mercedes.

In reply to ToxicTurtl3:

My brother went through this- he found a 190 with the 4 banger and 5 speed for about 2k and he just loved that car. Until it developed very expensive Mercedes problems. He ended up dumping 4 grand into what is still a non-driveable automobile.

He replaced it with a $750 Oldsmobile from 1983 and it's been a reliable car for him.

volvoclearinghouse wrote: In reply to ToxicTurtl3: My brother went through this- he found a 190 with the 4 banger and 5 speed for about 2k and he just loved that car. Until it developed very expensive Mercedes problems. He ended up dumping 4 grand into what is still a non-driveable automobile. He replaced it with a $750 Oldsmobile from 1983 and it's been a reliable car for him.

'tis the curse of german vehicles. They are reliable like a brick, right up until they aren't, and then it gets expensive.

NOHOME wrote: The first one is a molested child. The biodiesel blah-blah will kill any resale value. It's like ricing up a japanese car; nobody wants it afterwards.

.

Ok I realize that the first one has been molested but, with the biodiesle why would that lower the value of anything? The conversion is already done. Like alfadriver said I only want to play with it. If I like it and I find some benefits to it then I'll use it. I just wanted to experiment with it for future reference if I ever get an old VW Camper Van. I most likely would spend a month or 2 with it and probably not use it much after (cuz I heard it is getting harder and more expensive to find).

I don't think any of these cars are good choices for first cars. I really don't think a w123 is either.

I really do want a clean rust free fintail with red interior.

Agreed. A first car should be a dead-nuts simple thing you can wrench on with a basic knowledge of how tools and cars work, for which parts are cheap and you can't really get too far in over your head- and any mechanic should be able to help you out on if you do. Good MB mechanics are few and far between.

In reply to volvoclearinghouse: Very much so, I still ask the previous owner (bgkast) of my w123 questions haha.

In reply to yupididit:

It seemed to hit the reliability threshold JThw8 described about 2 hours after you took possession.

bgkast wrote: In reply to yupididit: It seemed to hit the reliability threshold JThw8 described about 2 hours after you took possession.

It's doing well now. Just needed a few things that kinda all happened at once. I still want to go through and get some Bilstein shocks and euro bumpers.