'73 Beetle chassis swapped w/ a '90 Miata - seemed like a good idea at first

Thanks guys. Yes I'm hoping that's what's going to happen. Back in Kansas, it was the exact same way. And if I go through with that plan, I'll at least cover up the big VIN plate on the Miata dashboard with a custom dashpad that I'm planning on making to cover all the uglyness (and the vin plate). 

But Oregon is only a step away from California so ya never know, so.... And they even have some pretty good documentation on exactly this situation: https://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/docs/trassembled.pdf

Totally off topic now but I want to quickly share my latest side project:

Yep. Title VIN = body VIN you're good to go. In my experience at least. In Georgia, they didn't even need to inspect the car. Just took my Indiana title and mailed me a new one. Went home with a plate.

mannydantyla said:

Thanks guys. Yes I'm hoping that's what's going to happen. Back in Kansas, it was the exact same way. And if I go through with that plan, I'll at least cover up the big VIN plate on the Miata dashboard with a custom dashpad that I'm planning on making to cover all the uglyness (and the vin plate). 

But Oregon is only a step away from California so ya never know, so.... And they even have some pretty good documentation on exactly this situation: https://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/docs/trassembled.pdf

I think you'll be fine - the link you posted is probably directed towards kit cars, Cobra replicas, and the like - which have no title nor VIN. Sounds like you have both a title and a VIN, and you did a "Miata engine swap into your VW." Engine's in the wrong place, yep! Oh yeah, you "also used the Miata suspension & brakes to upgrade your classic VW."

This approach worked even here in the dread communist state of Kommiefornia, with my 1964 "Viccup" Ford F250. Yep, it's a '64 Ford. Had a VIN, title, registration, plates, etc. when I bought the truck. Yep, it's been "upgraded with a Crown Vic drivetrain." Oh right - Crown Vic suspension too. Yep, Crown Vic wheels, brakes, steering, and oh yeah, I "beefed up the frame" as well.

Ok, a lot to update you guys on! 

I cut the opening for a grill to get fresh air to the rad. A few days ago, I went on a short drive around town and was going up an incline for about half a mile when the temp started to climb. I was lucky it didn't boil over. 

It's funny because, a while ago I posted a photoshop with several different grill opening shapes and I also shared it to my instagram and asked folks which was there favorite, and literally everyone had a different opinion. Ha!

Well I went with the easiest one to cut. I was in a bit of a hurry because this morning I drove it two hours (round trip) to the Bug Run, the biggest VW car show in Oregon. It was a lot of fun, but I think more importantly for me, the car drove perfectly. I still need an alignment, a real exhaust, and a lot of work to the interior and the driver's cockpit. But I was extremely pleased with how the engine and suspension and steering and stopping all worked. I mean, I guess that shouldn't be a surprise, I started with a car that was already driving perfectly fine. But when I think about it, 6 months ago I didn't even know what a VW Type 3 was (i was still planning on using the Super Beetle), and now I've built my own. I had planned on it taking a year, but I could barely transport one car 1,800 miles let alone two. Had to turn two cars into one a little sooner than I want.

Sorry. I'm rambling. Here's my latest youtube episode, showing me cutting the grill and a timelapse of Johnny doing the pinstripes. https://youtu.be/g9ngAg87DqU

I'll share some of the photos from the Bug Run in a minute

Love the whole project.  Really terrific.

The pin-striping is great!  Here's to young guys doing old-school skills.  The Hot-Rodder is dead, long live the Hot Rodder!

In reply to mannydantyla :

Congrats on being featured in the magazine. Looking good

Might not seem like it at first, but the easy button for closing off the rear might be to find a dead miata and harvest the last foot or so of the trunk and frame with a sawzall.  IF you can still get it in there behind your existing frame, it will give you a nice solid structure to weld to the rear tin of the VW and a clean extension to the spare-tire well. 

Thanks guys!

Yeah, Joe_Mama actually pointed it out to me on Instagram that I was mentioned in the mag. I went to a local book store and was surprised that I was able to find it. Maybe I should subscibe :)

Pete, that could be a good idea, but there's no room. There's more VW sheet metal back there than it looks like. Remnants from the air ducts that fed fresh air to the engine. The Miata frame channels are welded to it. Here, I'll draw a top-down x-ray visual of what I'm failing to describe in words:

I used ~6"x1" strips of 1/8" steel at the points labeled "welds." And the sheet metal they're welded to isn't very thick, maybe 18 gauge or whatever metric equivalent, but it was thick enough for one of the three engine mounts (other two where on the old vw chassis). 

But, yeah, if someone rear-ends me, it's going to get mangled pretty badly. The rear bumper is in no way directly connected to the miata frame channels. I had planned on putting some tube steel or something in there to connect them but they're totally on different planes, height-wise, and with that air duct in the way, and I didn't want to cut all that out because it would have just made everything more of a mess back there. I think maybe I'll take advantage of the 3rd miata brake light wiring and add a third brake light to the top center of the back window. It's also not too late to simply add more steel as originally planned. 

BTW, the front of the car is welded together a lot better/strong. Bumper mount points are actually tied into the front chassis rails. The arch above the rear wheels and back is where the work is needed. Everything else is solid. Except directly bellow the windshield. 

Alright here's just a few of my favorites from the bug run

It seemed like there was always a crowd around my squareback, starting from the moment I parked. I don't think too many people voted for it, in the state it's in, but the were definitely curious. Actually, now that I think about it, it was probably the rustiest turd in the show-and-shine area. Maybe that's why they were so curious.

The hood was up mostly to hide the ugly windshield. And yes that's duct tap sealing up the cowl, I was tired of hot engine gases getting into the cabin. Not my finest moment, will hopefully be fixed soon.

This was one of the cleaner Type 3s there. There was like 20 of us Type 3! Like twice as many as the Karmann Ghias. 

This was the only Type 34 there. Man I berkeleying love these.

And you can only image in how many Beetles and Buses there were. I kinda miss my Super Beetle now.

It was a great experience. I had no problems with the car, just made me so happy. Getting very close to my long-term bucket list goal of going on a road trip in a classic car. I just need to get it a little more complete! 

The swap meet was great too, I got new tail lights and lenses, front turn signal lenses, side mirrors, a rear view mirror, and - most importantly I think - a set of windshield wiper linkage. It looks like I might be able to graft the Miata turn signal motor onto it and install it like it is stock! It was only $2 so nothing to loose. I hacked up the rusty rotten wiper linkage that cam with my squareback on the day I severed the vw sheet metal bellow the windshield. The wiper crap was in the way and I was in a hurry. 

glamour shots 8)

I am jealous that you are driving and I am still beating mine into submission! My day will come. Still shooting for the Volvo show in July.

In reply to NOHOME :

If it's any consolation, my little 1.6L Mazda engine is slow as hell! Ironically it's the same size as the original VW engine - except VW measured it at 1600 cubic centimeters. The Mazda engine has more horsepower of course but its not nearly as fast as the 1.6L Toyota engine in my wife's Yaris. Which was the original car (not her exact one, she would have killed me) I wanted to use in the swap with the Super Beetle body, but I couldn't because the Yaris's McPherson struts couldn't clear the Beetle's front fenders and/or hood. Which is why I went with the Miata. Then of course I switched to the Squareback and the issue with the Yaris's struts was a moot point. So I started with two cars in mind and ended up with both cars being different. Oh well, the Miata's front and rear track are narrower by a few inches so I got the last laugh

I got working wipers! 

I grafted the Miata motor onto some VW linkage (might be for a bug, I think) that I found at a swap meet. 

I had to weld up the piece of metal that fastens to the motor shaft and connects to the rest of the linkage - the VW one wouldn’t match the splines on the Miata motor, and the Miata one wouldn’t fit to the VW linkage. So I cut both in half and welded the halves I needed together. After that, it was just a matter of drilling some little holes for the motor mounting bolts. I did have to take apart one of the two wiper shafts, to sand off the rust and grease it up.

Joe_Mama asked me, hows the sweep? It was then that it occured to me that the VW wipers want to sweep from left to right, and the Miata wipers want to sweep from right to left! And what if the timing of the motor doesn't isn't correct such that the wipers don't start and stop from the same spot (at the bottom of the windshield) every time??

Turns out that neither was an issue. The wiper motor shaft rotates exactly 360 degrees for every wipe. The geometry of the linkage doesn't care how long that takes. It doesn't even matter which direction the shaft rotates - CW or CCW. What matters is the position that the metal link (the one I welded together) is in relation to the linkage and when bolted to the motor's shaft. Basically, the linkage just need to be in the all-the-way-to-the-left position when the motor shaft bolt is tightened. And then the arms need to be attached to the linkage so that they're at the bottom of the windshield, ready to wipe to the right. That will ensure that the motor starts and stops from that point, and the wiper sweep in the correction direction. 

And if you'd like to *watch* the wipers working in action, that's in the just-released youtube episode: https://youtu.be/p0h2fYHIIS8

I also discovered today that I'm not the first squareback owner to do a swap like this (I already knew that I wasn't the first owner of VW Type 3 that's been chassis swapped, *cough* joe_mama *cough*). I found this on instagram:

Yes that's a LS motor. But he doesn't have windshield wipers!! So... I win.

This was long overdue. I was waiting until the wipers were all installed, but honestly I didn't need it, I had plenty of access from above the dashboard. 

And there's a reason why I'm not uploading a high-def pic. This was more 22-gauge steel and isn't a structural part of the unibody, so don't zoom in on the welds please. Lol. But it's better to be burning through than not penetrating, right?. Lots of seam sealer and paint will be next, and I can paint the inside still because I haven't entombed the wiper linkage and motor... yet. 

Then I can start installing shiny things!! This is the part I've been waiting for! I got new:

• 13" steering wheel (old was was 11")
• gauge hood
• air vents
• lots of interior "garnishes" like brushed aluminum gauge surround, fancy hvac control knobs, and aluminum vent rings
• glove box repair parts
• etc.

Then the last thing I'll do is I'll cover the dash with a carpet dashpad I bought. And I'll extend it with more material to cover up to the VW windshield (and I'll seal it and water proof it and stuff too). The dashpad will also cover up with Miata VIN plate which I don't want visible but I also don't want to remove it for legal reasons.

I wish I found a nicer dashpad but... you know what? Maybe I'll buy some leather/pleather and make my own dashpad! Using the carpet one as a template. How hard could it be?

edit: I just stumbled across a "flocked" dash. Google it. Hmm...

asked my wife what she thinks I should do about the dash and she gave me this

In reply to mannydantyla :

Your wife has an eye for design. She's a keeper 

mannydantyla said:

 

 

Is Jar Jar Binks driving that?

mannydantyla said:

asked my wife what she thinks I should do about the dash and she gave me this

Has anyone seen Big Bird lately?

In reply to Knurled. :

He is riding uncomfortably in a Cortina lately

mannydantyla said:

Might have to register the car as a specially constructed vehicle. Oregon is requiring me to register the vehicle with an Oregon tag and title, and first it needs a VIN inspection. I was hoping I could keep the Kansas tags indefinitely and avoid this situation. I guess it's all about money - every state is competing to collect all the taxes and fees out there. Makes me wonder if it would be better if it was a federal agency. 

I'll register my normal vehicles first and while I'm there I'll ask the VIN Inspection workers what I can get away with, what is the path of least resistance. It has a clean and clear Kansas title in my name, and the VIN plate under the hood hasn't been touched. Maybe I'll get lucky. But maybe I should get this taken care of before I spend any more money on this car, just in case it get's impounded or something. 

Imagine the look on the VIN inspector's face when he gets a look at this car...

Does Oregon look at the vin plate or the pan vin? Depends on the state as to which they use for the title. 

In reply to bigfranks84 :

I'll find out, I guess. In the next few weeks probably. Like others have said, I have a clean title so there shouldn't be issues as if I had no title at all. And if there is an issue, Oregon has a pretty easy process for "remanufactured vehicles." I have the clean title for the Miata too and all they need is proof that I didn't steel it. That's there priority. I would have to get it smog inspected but I wouldn't mind to be honest. I'm a tree hugger so I'm probably going to add a catalytic converter regardless (or convert it to electric but tht's another story).

-------------------------------------------------

You guys want to talk some sense into me? I'm thinking about doing a color change. Actually, I've always planned on it. One of the reasons I wanted a classic VW is because I wanted to paint it "seafoam green" like my old Fender guitar. Always wanted an old car that color. Like this shot bellow of a Birch Green L511 notchback. This is actually an oem color for my '67 squareback. PERFECT color. 

Well I'm getting started on the interior and if I'm going to do a color change, I need to do it now. 

Here's a VERY crude photoshop of what that could look like with three different color combos. The red color it is now, the green I want, and murdered out.

IMO the green accent interior looks best. I have the off-white windshield visors already but those can always be painted black. Followed by the all black murdered out pic. Damn me and my aversion to red! I get it from my dad I guess. 

And then last night, after a few (several) cocktails, I saw a youtube video of a guy using rustoleum spraypaint on a car, followed by those 2K clear cans from Eastwood and elsewhere. Looked pretty easy and cheap. I've actually painted an entire truck with brush-on Rustoleum by thinning it and using a foam roller brush and a lot of wet sanding, and it looked awesome!! However, after two years it had faded. But that was without a clearcoat.

Point is: that sounds like my style. So I looked up some rustoleum spray paint colors. Guess the berkeley what?! There's a seemingly perfect match between Birch Green L511 and Rustoleum "Moss Green" - I say seemingly because I'm comparing HTML color hex values between paintref.com and homedepot website. All I can say is they look identical, online at least. 

So I went to my local hardware store and picked up a can!

That's the "moss green" Rustoleum on a bit of cardboard, and next to is my seafoam green guitar. I painted the guitar myself and used paint from www.reranch.com - they custom make the paints to match classic Fender guitar colors which, in turn, were made to match 50s Fords and GMs. The type of paint from reranch.com is nitrocellulous lacquor and it took a month to dry. Probably did like 5 or 6 coats. And as you can imagine it's not cheap (or legal in California). 

The Seafoam Green on the guitar was originally seen on a 56 Buick. 

Good lord is that a bright color for a car. Probably a little too much for the frankenwagen. 

So the rustoleum Moss Green isn't initially the color I thought it would be, but the more I think about it the more I can totally see it being an awesome color. Better than red. Maybe I should paint up a larger panel before I decide. But, again, I need to decide before I continue with the interior. I would want to paint the interior metal before stretching the vinyl fabric over the dashboard (oh yeah, forgot to mention, I bought some vinyl fabric to stretch over the dashboard and up to the windshield).

What about all the dents and rust and bangs and twisted panels on the ol' frankenwagon. She's an abused old girl, sadly. It will take a tremendous amount of work and bondo to get it nice a straight. The rust will need to be repaired regardless. And what about the pinstripes? You know, I love my friend Johnny who did them and I respect them and I like the design, but they're not really doing it for me and this car. I wish it weren't true but it is. Maybe it's the yellow color - reminds me of McDonalds. And clowns. (My brilliant wife just pointed out to me that I could mask the pinstripes before painting over them). 

So I'm expecting many folks to say, dude you cannot paint over that patina. And I understand that argument - I like patina cars and this is a legit patina! Not a fake or anything. Has loads of character. 

But... what about a patina color change?? Yeah, some of you are going to need to try and not barf. But here's a very crude mockup of what that could look like:

I wish I could do that in real life - magically apply something that changes the hue of the paint. 

It's poor photoshoping to be honest. But it definitely can look good in my opinion. Better than a normal shiny paint job? No, of course not. But, pretty cool. If it's not too fake looking.

Wife: "I don't know why boys like that patina thing"

So that's where I'm at today. Will probably think about it over the 4th of July weekend. I guess it all depends on whether or not I'm going to sell this car. If I'm selling it then the obvious and easy answer is to leave the red patina. If it's for me, then I'm going to paint it the color I've always wanted. But that's what I said about my old Chevy truck and my Jeep XJ, and they're both gone. But I still have my motorcycle at least.

What do you think?

Think I would spray some extra sheet metal with the green. Prep the sheet metal like you would prep the car, primer and such. I've found that cardboard darkens the color, should be slightly lighter on metal. Maybe try some different color primer under the green. As for full paint, personally that's what I would do. After the rust fix and smoothing, of course. Which may take a while so the pin striping and patina will stay a while longer while working that. Masking the pin stripes and color change would be a lot of work and still might not come out right. Just have your buddy redo the pinstripes after the repaint.

While I think "patina" is cool, I also think it's overdone. Paint has a purpose whether it looks good or not. The body will just continue to get worse rust wise until fixed and sealed and that means new shiny paint that will last for years longer than the patina. So yeah, I'm on the band wagon that says to paint the interior with the green before doing the vinyl work. If you're going to do a color change, do it right and all the way. Will look much better and finished. Also if you decide on a lighter green on the outside, I've found that a slightly different (darker) hue of a color on the inside is hardly noticeable. After all, outside paint fades while inside stays original color. Noticed this on older cars. May even make it look like an older paint job.

In reply to wlkelley3 :

Thank you. Yeah, I agree with all of that. Sometimes you just need somebody else to say it though. Patina is cool, faux patina is the opposite of cool (although if you did a patina color change, would that be half faux and half real??) Either wouldn't look as good as a nice, shiny paint job. And that's what my wife likes too so that's what I'll probably do, haha. Seriously though, it needs to be done right. 

I think that for now you should concentrate on finishing the rough edges of the car.  At that point you will know in your heart if it is something that you want to keep in the family.

If you decide this is going to stay

Leave it alone and enjoy as is:  This is my knee jerk path forward, but I would have to see the car when the tin is done

Fake patina: Patina is like a fart, if you force it, its E36 M3, so no,  lets not

Mop and Glow paint job: Car paint, but Macco level of work, ie no door jambs or engine bay painting. 

Blow the whole car apart and do a high quality paint job: Only if you want to learn what is involved in  doing a high quality paint job.  Of course, you will need to then learn to do an interior to the same quality.

Chalkboard  paint and ask the world what they think of the car. Provide the chalk.

Pete

mannydantyla said:

In reply to wlkelley3 :

Thank you. Yeah, I agree with all of that. Sometimes you just need somebody else to say it though. Patina is cool, faux patina is the opposite of cool (although if you did a patina color change, would that be half faux and half real??) Either wouldn't look as good as a nice, shiny paint job. And that's what my wife likes too so that's what I'll probably do, haha. Seriously though, it needs to be done right. 

Happy wife, happy life. Gotta keep her happy.  

Take your time and do it in sections and you can keep some patina for a while till it all gets covered up and you (I mean we  ) can also watch the progress. Also by doing it in sections you would still be able to drive the car in-between work.

As for patina, my preference and favorite kind of patina is on survivor cars. I love to see survivor cars that are unmodified and all original and still running and driving and taken care of. The patina shows it had and still has a life. To me, modified cars with patina looks half done.