Attempt at a Rally Civic

Well, I’ve decided to break my streak of lurking here and actually start a build thread. I’m hoping this will help hold me to my target timeline and offer a place for me to get feedback on all the dumb things I’ll inevitably try to do.

About a week ago I traded my Volvo 240 for a 1997 Honda Civic Hatchback. I was sad to see it go (because turbo rwd Volvo) but this Civic will be a much better starting point for this build. It’s a CX model, so exactly zero power features, manual transmission, and only 92,000 miles when I got it. The only option it had is air conditioning, which actually works!

The idea is to get this thing prepped for stage rally; targeting Summer Sno*Drift 2018 as the debut event. So that gives me just about a year to get it done. I’m planning on rallycrossing it whenever possible, as a form of regular testing for modifications before getting it out on stage. Unfortunately, I’m currently daily driving the car while I hunt for a new daily/tow vehicle so the build will be off to a slow start. We have a rallycross on August 12th, where the car will be running in stock form, then the real work will begin.

My goal is to keep this build as simple and budget friendly as possible (safety equipment being the exception). The only major powertrain work I am planning is a transmission swap from an EX model Civic of the same generation for better gearing, and maybe a VTEC head from an EX Civic as well. If I decide that power is an issue, I will consider a swap down the road.

This will be my first serious racecar build, and my first experience in stage rally, so I’d love feedback or suggestions on things to address. With that long-winded introduction out of the way, brace yourselves for boring maintenance work and planning for the next few weeks.

EKs are such a versatile car and they really don't give up that much rawness over an EG.

That looks like a great starting point.

Good luck on the build. Check out the few rally build threads on here (mine among them) for some ideas. IDK much about Civics in rally, though there are a few running on the east coast (though it seems like they do a lot of breaking, may just be the drivers, lol). Take your time, work the details. Make the car strong and reliable first, then worry about making it fast. Daily driving it "while you're doing it" could be tough - because the main first step is to strip the car and cage it unless you're going to do a long build like I did, rallycrossing it for a few years. If your goal is to be ready by next summer, you need to start everything now, inclduing the stripping/cage prep/cage build. With less than a year, you don't really have time to lollygag, really. Because rushed builds usually turn out to be lousy builds in my experience, or tend to skip things that result in DNFs...

Talk to a LOT of current stage drivers and builders and have a good plan. Do a LOT of research. Crew for some teams at rallies. You need to get seats before the cage since everything has to fit together and your seats, seat mounts, and cage need to fit and be in the right places.

Just my 2 cents, but I personally would keep the Honda as a daily and find a non-rusty Volvo 240 to build. 240s are tough, reliable cars with a long rally heritage. And it's RWD. But that's just my personal preference I'm sure the civic is a great starting point as well if you want to run FWD (and a hatchback is extra-convenient for rally and ease of cage-building, for sure!).

In your short timeframe, I'd say

1. do basic mechanical upgrades (good shocks, maybe some taller springs, and refresh all suspension stuff and engine stuff.

2. protection...skidplates, etc

3. cage, comms, safety gear, etc (this stuff is not cheap, but invest in higher-end helmets and comms, IMO, it's worth it)

4. go rally

5. upgrade after you have an event or two done and you know what needs to be improved. Rallycross really doesn't show you much at all about what you need to do to the car for stage (take it from me....)

Good luck and will be watching your progress!

I have no idea where you're located, but are you aware of this rally civic for sale? Sure, it needs some work, but it's probably still easier (and definitely cheaper) than trying to build the one you have from scratch.

Cool! If you want to sell parts when you get to stripping the interior mine will probably still be missing pieces.

Irish,

Thanks for all the pointers, I'll definitely be reading through your build! Volvo 240 would be ideal, but that will unfortunately have to wait. My hope is to get some seat time in this car on stages and generally learn as much as possible, then apply what I learn to the next build down the road, which will be a Volvo 240. I would love to crew for some teams over the coming year if I can. So if anyone reading this needs a crew member at an event close(ish) to Michigan, I'd love the opportunity.

As far as the daily driving conundrum, that will only be the case for the next few weeks. I am in the market for a new daily that I can use to pull a trailer as we speak. The Civic will hopefully not see any daily driver duty after the August rallycross.

My plan for suspension is Bilstein HD's, stock springs (maybe slightly stiffer), and upgraded bushings wherever I can. I'm still struggling with whether I should stick to poly bushings everywhere or spring for spherical in some critical locations.

While we do have a welder in the garage, I will be taking taking the car to a professional to have a cage built. Already looking at seat options, and after seeing some in-car crash videos I'm definitely going with halo seats. I'm hoping to get seats installed this fall, as well as any brake/fuel line routing I want to do in the cabin, and then have the cage built over the winter.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ wrote: I have no idea where you're located, but are you aware of this rally civic for sale? Sure, it needs some work, but it's probably still easier (and definitely cheaper) than trying to build the one you have from scratch.

I'm in SE Michigan. I saw that, and the thought of towing/shipping that car did cross my mind. I was a little worried about re-certifying the cage. I understand it wasn't a crazy roll, but I'd hate to get it and then find that the cage needs to be rebuilt. At that point, I figured it makes more sense to start with a clean, straight chassis and have a cage built.

BlueInGreen44 wrote: Cool! If you want to sell parts when you get to stripping the interior mine will probably still be missing pieces.

Sounds good, I'll let you know. You can expect to be hearing from me in mid-to-late August.

Quick update on the car:

Over the last week or so I've been trying to catch it up on maintenance. So far I've gone through all the typical "tune-up" stuff. Oil change, plugs, wires, cap/rotor, fuel filter, air filter, etc. I've got a timing belt kit and CV axle sitting on the shelf waiting to go in.

I also took a quick trip to the junkyard that turned out to be quite fruitful. Because this car is about as "base" as it gets, it didn't even have a tachometer. Fortunately, a bunch of civics had a tachometer and I managed to find one at the junkyard. Swapped my speedometer/odometer over and everything seems to be working fine

And even though this is intended to be a rally car and aesthetics isn't the focus of the build, I came across a front bumper of the correct year and color that had already been removed, so I couldn't resist making the car a little more presentable.

Before:

After:

Following this!!! I too want to try stage rally at some point.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ wrote: I have no idea where you're located, but are you aware of this rally civic for sale? Sure, it needs some work, but it's probably still easier (and definitely cheaper) than trying to build the one you have from scratch.

Seriously looked at this since its close to home. The floor pan is berked. Pass side suspension pickups are ripped out. Shifters ripped out of the trans. Its pretty hosed.

In reply to java230:

That's a bummer, not exactly what the ad describes but if the owner weren't a hopeless optimist I guess he wouldn't be trying to get money for a wrecked rally car

In reply to ¯_(ツ)_/¯:

Yeah I'm guessing its gone now too, I was emailing with him a long time ago and he had people coming to look at it for just about scrap value.... Costing storage unit fees each month.

Add is ok technically.... cage held, floor pan not so much. With crunched floor and roof, I wasn't willing to take the project on. Too much risk of serious chassis tweak for the $$.

Ahem!

Ask away!

My EM1 Civic Rally Thread

I didn't build it, but I have done a lot of work - Photobucket did a number on all my pics. I'm going to move them and fix the thread, just been busy.

NGTD wrote: Ahem! Ask away! My EM1 Civic Rally Thread I didn't build it, but I have done a lot of work - Photobucket did a number on all my pics. I'm going to move them and fix the thread, just been busy.

I remember that thread popping up a while back, and will definitely be reading through once the pictures are back up. I'm particularly interested to see what you did with your skid plate.

artur1808 wrote: My plan for suspension is Bilstein HD's, stock springs (maybe slightly stiffer), and upgraded bushings wherever I can. I'm still struggling with whether I should stick to poly bushings everywhere or spring for spherical in some critical locations.

I would not do spherical anywhere, personally. Even on our stage car I only have a couple places with hard-durometer mounts (UHMV), and the rest has stock or similar rubber. For rally you want some amount of "give" due to the heavy shock loads of hitting ditches, rocks, jumps, etc. If everything is solid together, "something has to break."

New OEM-quality rubber stuff will last a good long time for rally. Our rubber upper mounts and control arm bushings are 6 years old (all rallycross/rally) and still in good shape. Just don't buy cheap/knockoff stuff.

artur1808 wrote: While we do have a welder in the garage, I will be taking taking the car to a professional to have a cage built. Already looking at seat options, and after seeing some in-car crash videos I'm definitely going with halo seats. I'm hoping to get seats installed this fall, as well as any brake/fuel line routing I want to do in the cabin, and then have the cage built over the winter.

A few points:

1. make sure your cage is built by a place that builds RALLY cages. Many road-racing or circletrack shops don't know the correct specs/requirements. I've seen a lot of really, really nicely -built cages that aren't rally legal because the bars are in the wrong place, etc.

2. Go find a place to sit in seats. Keep in mind with halo seats, it can be hard to get in/out of the car if it has small doors. We don't use them and don't plan to. The safety aspect has arguments on both sides, FWIW.

3. IDK offhand where the brake and fuel lines are on a Civic, but there is no way I'd want them in the cabin of mine (at least fuel...you'll need brake lines inside if you do a hydro-brake). If I get a fuel leak, I don't want it inside the car, or if a fitting gets loose, etc. We just have very good underbody protection for the lines and it's never been an issue and we don't worry about it at all. If your fuel lines are getting destroyed THROUGH UHMV or steel protective plates, you already have way bigger problems!

NGTD wrote: Ahem! Ask away! My EM1 Civic Rally Thread I didn't build it, but I have done a lot of work - Photobucket did a number on all my pics. I'm going to move them and fix the thread, just been busy.

Fixed most of the pics

irish44j wrote:

artur1808 wrote: While we do have a welder in the garage, I will be taking taking the car to a professional to have a cage built. Already looking at seat options, and after seeing some in-car crash videos I'm definitely going with halo seats. I'm hoping to get seats installed this fall, as well as any brake/fuel line routing I want to do in the cabin, and then have the cage built over the winter.

A few points: 1. make sure your cage is built by a place that builds RALLY cages. Many road-racing or circletrack shops don't know the correct specs/requirements. I've seen a lot of really, really nicely -built cages that aren't rally legal because the bars are in the wrong place, etc. 2. Go find a place to sit in seats. Keep in mind with halo seats, it can be hard to get in/out of the car if it has small doors. We don't use them and don't plan to. The safety aspect has arguments on both sides, FWIW. 3. IDK offhand where the brake and fuel lines are on a Civic, but there is no way I'd want them in the cabin of mine (at least fuel...you'll need brake lines inside if you do a hydro-brake). If I get a fuel leak, I don't want it inside the car, or if a fitting gets loose, etc. We just have very good underbody protection for the lines and it's never been an issue and we don't worry about it at all. If your fuel lines are getting destroyed THROUGH UHMV or steel protective plates, you already have way bigger problems!

Re: irish44j's comments:

1 - Can't be stressed enough - you need a rally cage builder - unless you want to cut it out and do it again!!!

3 - Fuel and brake lines in a civic run under the car just to the left of the tunnel. Mine have been relocated into the car.

irish44j wrote: [...] I would not do spherical anywhere, personally. Even on our stage car I only have a couple places with hard-durometer mounts (UHMV), and the rest has stock or similar rubber. For rally you want some amount of "give" due to the heavy shock loads of hitting ditches, rocks, jumps, etc. If everything is solid together, "something has to break." [...] 2. Go find a place to sit in seats. Keep in mind with halo seats, it can be hard to get in/out of the car if it has small doors. We don't use them and don't plan to. The safety aspect has arguments on both sides, FWIW.

Irish,

That's interesting about the bushings, I hadn't thought about it from that perspective. I guess I was just thinking of the most durable bushing material to get through a rally, but the "something has to break" philosophy definitely makes sense. I'll have to take a look at my options here.

With regards to halo seats, is the argument against them that they are difficult to get out of in an emergency?

Quick update on the Civic for today.

When I got it, the passenger side axle boot was torn and the CV joint was making noise. I decided that in my "catch up on maintenance before diving into modifications" phase, I should probably take care of this.

Out with the old:

And in with the new:

Welp, I guess it's about time to update this a bit. 

The last couple of months have been fairly hectic with lots of car shuffling, moving to a new house, and generally being busy with life. 

In that time, the scope of the Civic project has changed quite a bit. Right as I was getting ready to pull the interior and start the process of building the car, I stumbled upon a great deal on a fully-prepped rally car. After a test drive at one of our local rallycross events, I made the owner an offer and am now the owner of this mk2 Jetta:

Apparently this old girl has been around the local rally scene for quite a while, but seems to run and drive well. The only real driveability issue is that the car doesn't like to idle very well. Comes to life just fine with throttle input, but struggles with idling sometimes. This is something I'll have to look into some more. But the good news is that it has a Rally America logbook, it runs and drives, competed as recently as 2015, and cost me about the same amount as putting a cage into the Civic. Plus, it came with quite a few spares. (some are much better than others, but it's a good starting point)

The only major updates it needs to get onto stages are updated harnesses and fire extinguishers. Aside from that I will be going through the whole car, taking care of some maintenance items, cleaning the whole thing up, and maybe making a few tweaks. The goal is to make my stage rally debut at Sno*Drift 2018. Now that it's in writing I will have to hold myself accountable, right?

In addition to that, the eagle-eyed observer may have noticed a Grand Cherokee in the background of one of those photos. That has become the new daily driver/tow vehicle. I managed to find a very clean example of the somewhat rare diesel Jeeps from the Daimler days:

The Jeep has received new shocks, ball joints, and a few powertrain modifications. Should have no problem pulling a trailer with the Jetta on it, and is proving to be a great daily driver. Turns out you can fit at least 14 wheels and tires from a mk2 Jetta in the back of one of those. 

Oh, and the civic got sold off to a friend that was looking to replace his half ton truck with something more economical. So it got a radio, a good cleaning, and is off doing what it was made to do: commute. 

Nice find :) See you on the stages (though we run primarily NRS at this point and have no plans to do RA)

Thanks Irish, I'm excited to get out on the stages. I've had the Jetta at a couple of rallycross events now and it has been a blast. 

As I understand it, NRS will accept a RA logbook, correct? 

Buying often works out better than building from a value equation.

For me that meant learning Honda after working on VW's for a long time, but when I was looking, like you, I picked up the Honda for pretty much the cost of the cage.

NGTD, I'm in exactly the opposite position as I have some experience with Honda's but little to none with VW. Want to trade?