DarkMonohue
DarkMonohue GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
12/12/24 10:28 p.m.

I have owned the same old MR2 for more than twenty years. It was purchased with a dead engine and I built a high compression 7A-GE hybrid (1800cc stroker) to get it back on the road 20 years ago. It was my daily driver for a long time and is now as tired as I am, and I genuinely don't remember the last time I drove it. I'm wondering if it's time to consider something truly stupid to make it interesting enough to reignite the flame.

The current engine runs an ancient Megasquirt 1 and makes decent power with 11.2:1 CR and mild Web 577 camshafts. I have had bigger Crower cams and a half-finished ITB on the shelf for many years, along with a disassembled C160 six-speed transmission with LSD. All cool stuff, but it's a lot easier to collect parts than to build and install them, so there they sit.

In between planning to finish what I started, I have gone down rabbit holes on all kinds of dumb engine swaps. Mazda KL? Sure. Volvo five? Absolutely. Honda K-something? Not really interested in that.

The idea of tearing the engine down and stuffing in some decent pistons and rods so it can tolerate boost has also periodically floated, scum-like, to the top. But then, what form of boost? So many ways to do it. Too many choices.

What would GRM do?

 

ae86andkp61 (Forum Supporter)
ae86andkp61 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
12/13/24 1:11 a.m.

This thread is definitely pertinent to my interests! First of all, I love a 4A-G, a modified 4A-G, and 7A-Gs as well, so I wouldn't talk you out of a boosted 7A-G. Since there's too many choices; I say boost it with a Rotrex...one of those thingies that's like a turbo, but driven off the crank.

If you're going to do a swap, pretty tough to beat the Toyota GR V-6.

Too commonplace? What about one of those tuned NZ Prius engines with the hybrid stuff removed and converted from Atkinson cycle to Otto cycle with crazy compression? Make it a flyweight N/A AW11...kind of like a poor man's Lotus.

Or, what would it take to put a G16 turbo 3-cylinder into the AW11? Might be a challenging swap, but would be stupid fast.

Mrfurzzy1
Mrfurzzy1 New Reader
12/13/24 5:41 a.m.

I have a soon to be properly supercharged 4agze (I got the entire swap minus the supercharger and ran it na for a year) in our aw11 and a k series in our mr2 spyder. Both are great, but the k series is a cheaper route if you want higher power levels. My friend has a very crazy 500 whp 5sgte built, carbon fiber aw11. It fits in the car very well and is absolutely insane to ride in. I have also heard very good things about the 2ar swaps on the facebook groups.

bbbbRASS
bbbbRASS Reader
12/13/24 7:19 a.m.

Kawasaki FX691. I've got a core sitting in my shed you can have. You did say terrible ideas.....

akylekoz
akylekoz UberDork
12/13/24 7:26 a.m.

Tree Fitty wit a 3/4 race, bam terrible idea.  

I like the build what you have with boost idea.

Turbine
Turbine GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
12/13/24 8:36 a.m.

7AGE with boost sounds fun, but for an off the wall idea, VW 07k with boost?

maschinenbau
maschinenbau GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
12/13/24 10:20 a.m.

If you have the E51 trans for the supercharged AW11, a 2AR 2.5 4-cylinder with 200whp or 2GR 3.5 V6 with 260+ whp will bolt up to it. Neither engine will bolt to the C-series trans that came in the N/A AW11's. 

I THINK the 2ZR-FE 1.8L will bolt to the C-series trans. This engine was supercharged in the Lotus Elise and made over 200 hp. You can find them in later Corollas. 

DarkMonohue
DarkMonohue GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
12/13/24 5:47 p.m.

There are some interesting suggestions here. It should be mentioned that I am on a holographic budget, so I tend to exclude anything that requires expensive parts. I can handle fabrication, exhaust, plumbing, wiring, etc., but I can't grind my own cams, for example.

The Rotrex is probably out. Something about the exponential boost curve of a mechanically driven centrifugal blower rubs me the wrong way. And it's not a junkyard/fleabay part AFAIK. 1NZ and G16 swaps are probably out, too, but for different reasons. I'm not sure a 1NZ would solve any problems, especially considering this is an air-conditioned road car rather than a featherweight track rat, and a G16 is ... well ... I, uh ... what is a G16, anyway?

<Googles it>

No. I'm not finding one of those on Craigslist for pocket money, and have negative interest in anything that new. Too much rocket science for this old dropout.

K series Honder is a no. It just doesn't feel right. Doesn't seem special. Might be faster than Felicia on a Friday night, but it feels like the "LS swap it LOL" of little cars. I guess the same can be said of 2ARs. Apparently they can be made fast. That's cool, but there's no appeal there for some intangible reason.

Kamasutra whutnow? I already have a VF1100S sitting unloved on the wrong side of the garage wall. Dumb, yes, and I certainly appreciate that, but not better.

The VW 07k might be worth discussing. Transmissions are a consideration. The gear ratios in the current C50 aren't inspiring, so if the transmission gets swapped out, we'd want better ratios as part of the deal. And better noises. What kind of crazy-nanners RPM can the stock assembly tolerate? Is an interesting power curve just a cam and ITB swap away? I've also thought a little about naturally aspirated Volvo fives, but have no idea how they compare to the VW in terms of potential spiciness and enjoyable gear ratios.

The GR series V6 thing has been considered. It could be done. I'm not sure I need or want that much power. There may be a 2.5 liter variant. I've also thought about the smaller JDM 2.5 liter version of the MZ series six, as well as the Mazda K series. Hell, even a silly 1.8 liter K8 could be fun if it can be crammed and ITBd to ~200 hp and will survive on the far side of eight grand.

I do want quick revs, snappy response, a broad rev range, and captivating sounds. The 7A-GE is about 8/10 there. The 7A bottom end apparently highlights the flow restrictions of the head, and they want bigger cams than equivalent 4As. I do have bottom-of-the-page cams on the shelf, awaiting ambition and effort, and probably also requiring the aforementioned pistons and rods to make the poor old dear survive at the RPM necessary to take advantage of the cams. Slippery slope.

And if bigger cams go in, will it still be happy with turbos? Yes, turbos. Plural. This is a dumb idea fair. I have an RHB5 from an EA82T and have many times considered adding a second in the form of parallel twins. It's not a bad match, on paper. If that is a bridge too far for even this crowd, an appropriate single turbo could be considered. I even have enough junk laying around to fake a pretty good W2A intercooler setup. Never mind the fact that not a lot of people have fresh EA82T turbos just sitting around. Apparently I am still living in 1994.

Or we could slap an Eaton M62 or M90 on. They don't care about cams. But they also don't do anything to quiet the brutally blatty exhaust note that the AW11 and its abbreviated exhaust system tends to create. Turbos do. But turbos are harder to plumb and there are heat issues and what about the drainback and so on. Back and forth I go between the two. 

Management is another issue. I'm assuming any kind of swap would be easier to run on MegaSquirt than an OEM ECU and a thousand dollars worth of harness from Hackenslash Racing.

I dunno. So many bad ideas, so little time.

MrJoshua
MrJoshua UltimaDork
12/13/24 11:34 p.m.

You didn't address the 2ar suggestion. Reasons?

DarkMonohue
DarkMonohue GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
12/14/24 12:19 a.m.

In reply to MrJoshua :

The 2AR response got lumped in with the Honda K comments. I guess I don't know enough about them. They're new (by my standards), which is intimidating, and have no inherent sex appeal. I guess one could do the 2AR-FXE with double FXE cams without a HELOC. It's just not something I've looked into. And I already have a four-cylinder, so moving to another four-cylinder, even making an extra hundred horsepower, doesn't sound that interesting. If it could be strapped to a box with a good set of ratios and possibly LSD without having to sell a kidney, it may be worth considering.

Will
Will UberDork
12/14/24 12:35 p.m.

SHO V6?

LS4?

Continental 4.6 DOHC?

Hey, you said you wanted terrible ideas.

bbbbRASS
bbbbRASS Reader
12/14/24 2:02 p.m.

The Kawasaki is a vertical shaft air-cooled V-twin with a mighty 20HP. Meant for lawnmowers and such. Not a serious suggestion, but respect to anyone using it in a vehicle!


wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L)
wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
12/14/24 6:17 p.m.

I feel that you have the obvious answer in hand (no rude intentions, simply answering the thread title) , so let's talk alternatives.

Buy a berked up Leaf. Move forward as seems logical.

2ZZGE and trans, as mentioned, =early Elise substitute.

I got very little else...the 4AGE and its relatives are kind of the heart of this car. Short of doing a radical swap, like an Ecotec or the like, what have you got?

Wait, I'll say it, Chryler. Say, a PT Cruiser GT? Doubt you'll find a SRT4 donor cheap, but a PT Looser maybe.

DarkMonohue
DarkMonohue GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
12/16/24 8:53 p.m.

In reply to wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) :

The logical answer is to either leave it alone or take action with the parts I already have. It's not terribly difficult to swap cams, and the engine wants ITBs anyway. It's just been so long since I did anything fun with it that I've really lost momentum, so sometimes it helps to work out alternatives. That is especially true since pretty much any route I take is going to warrant taking the drivetrain out. At that point it's worth considering what else could go back in.

Lindenwood
Lindenwood GRM+ Memberand New Reader
12/17/24 12:20 a.m.

Are you more limited by time or money? 

DarkMonohue
DarkMonohue GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
12/17/24 5:59 p.m.
Lindenwood said:

Are you more limited by time or money? 

Oh, certainly, yes.

But for the purposes of discussion, let's say by money.

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia UberDork
12/17/24 7:30 p.m.

Any cheap oddball FWD car converted to Renault R5 Turbo look, 

V6 motor  

or  R5 Turbo look all wheel drive with V6 motor in the back seat.

 

DarkMonohue
DarkMonohue GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
12/17/24 10:11 p.m.
californiamilleghia said:

Any cheap oddball FWD car converted to Renault R5 Turbo look, 

V6 motor  

or  R5 Turbo look all wheel drive with V6 motor in the back seat.

Looks like this might be a great answer to somebody else's question. Is the forum sending posts to the wrong thread again?

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