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java230
java230 New Reader
2/26/15 2:40 p.m.

OK I pretty much lurk in the shadows here... I love all the build threads. I finally signed up a little while ago, Figured maybe I should post something, even if its not car related. (I dont have any real go fast cars now... I have a 4runner that gets most of my work)

I wanted to show off my latest project. I have been thinking of doing concrete counters for my house, so this was a trial run for that more or less. I think it turned out pretty neat.

Finished product:

Figured I would do a little write up, it was way easier than I thought and not too expensive. You will need some basic tools, I used a drill and paddle to mix the concrete, a skill saw to cut the form material, and drill and screw gun. That’s pretty much all the specialized stuff needed.

Materials are concrete, welded wire mesh, (I used fibermesh also, but don’t really need to, it adds a bit of cost, and really only helps if there are tiny surface cracks.) a piece of melamine to make the form, screws, and whatever you choose for legs. I used 3x3’s and some steel plates at the top.

First step make a form, use melamine, its slick enough that the concrete releases well and it makes a good finished surface. I didn’t take any pics… But screw together a box, pretty simple. Next caulk the corners, this gives a little radius and makes the form water tight. I used a painters caulk, would do a polyurethane or similar next time, the caulk bonded to the concrete too well and pulled some off in places. Here is the bottom of the form (top of table) after it was poured to give you the idea.

Support the form well, concrete is heavy! And get it as level as possible, pouring the concrete wet, it will want to run to the low side.

Mix the concrete wet, very wet, it needs to be able to flow well. The key to the top being smooth is getting the trapped air out. Needs to be runny concrete and vibrated very VERY well. I used an air chisel and pounded on the bottom of the table that I poured on. I would probably just rent a vibrator next time.

Poured

Fill the forum half way and vibrate it well, then add a piece of welded wire mesh. It should be cut to about 1” back from the edges on all sides.

Fill it the rest of the way up and vibrate more. Be careful not to hit the wire and sink it to the bottom. It wont move much if you don’t directly vibrate on it.

The top is the bottom of the table, so the finish isn’t critical, I didn’t bother with it much beyond making it smooth-ish.

I used the steel plates to locate bolts for my legs. I used the same plates screwed to the top of my legs. I used wedge anchors for the bolts, they are 3/8” and are designed to tighten in a drilled hole. Glad I did since one wanted to spin, but a bolt should work just as well.

Sorry for the terrible picture (I was having too much fun)

After an overnight dry, you can carefully strip the forms off. The concrete will still be quite soft. If you want to ease any edges you can do it now. Work from the corners in, as not to break the corner off. You can rub with your hand or use sandpaper if it needs a bit more.

Top after stripping.

Now it needs to dry and cure so it can be stained. I chose to do an acid stain after the concrete had dried instead of an integral color. Acid stains usually give a bit more surface variation, where the integral color will be pretty even. However with the bottom of the concrete being the table top, and having no toweling on it, it came out quite even.

After a couple hours with a fan on it.

On to the stain. Its acid, protect anything you like. The literature will tell you to let the concrete fully cure, 28 days, before staining. I didn’t wait… I stained the 3rd day after pouring. Use a spray bottle to apply the stain, use a acid safe brush (no artificially colored bristles!) to scrub it around some. I used the whole bottole of stain on mine as I wanted it pretty dark. The stain reacts with the concrete so the color of the stain may be completely different from the final color. I did black, although it didn’t end up really black, somewhere between a black/brown mix.

After a couple coats of stain, note the plastic covering everything.

The longer the stain is left to react the darker it will be. It will continue to change for quite some time after as well. You can apply as much or little as you want depending on the color. It will penetrate the concrete so if you wish to sand the surface to expose some aggregate the color will continue down.

After it has been left to sit for as long as you want, the acid must be neutralized and the satin washed off. Use baking soda and water mix to neutralize then just a couple of water rinses to get the excess stain off.

After cleanup, starting to dry. Looks very brown.

Next step is to seal and wax it. I used an enhancer on mine; it’s a product for stone usually that deepens the color a bit. It also adds some sealant, I used a DuPont one. Followed by another sealer just for good measure, I used 511. Then wax, wax and more wax. I like the Johnson paste wax for this. I put a few coats on by hand, really heavy, then one more light one and bit it with my buffer. The wax adds the wear layer to it.

Finished, well I will add a little shelf underneath, but done for the most part. You can see the stain has continued to react and has become a bit blacker.

I may try counter tops after I see how this wears. The counters may pose a problem of being HEAVY. The table top I made is 30x48 and weighs 250 pounds…. It was a fun project. Hope its not too off topic here!

tuna55
tuna55 UltimaDork
2/26/15 2:46 p.m.

Sweet!

bgkast
bgkast GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
2/26/15 2:46 p.m.

Very cool. Aren't the counter tops usually poured in place, so the top during the pour would end up being the top of the finished product?

java230
java230 New Reader
2/26/15 2:48 p.m.
bgkast wrote: Very cool. Aren't the counter tops usually poured in place, so the top during the pour would end up being the top of the finished product?

They are done both ways. Often the pour in place guys will go right over the existing.

I want to do it, I have been looking at mix designs and it looks like if I mix my own I can get down to 1" with a 2" thickened edge. That would cut the weight a lot.

Toyman01
Toyman01 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/26/15 2:54 p.m.

That is awesome!

I've been kicking around the idea of concrete countertops as well. Go ahead and do your so I can learn from your mistakes.

rcutclif
rcutclif HalfDork
2/26/15 3:09 p.m.

yeah, totally sweet. I have been kicking this idea around too.

250 LBS!!!! holy moiy. I figured heavy but that's on the boarder of 'I can't lift this coffee table'. I guess you do have 10 SQFT of concrete 2 inches thick...

java230
java230 New Reader
2/26/15 3:28 p.m.
rcutclif wrote: yeah, totally sweet. I have been kicking this idea around too. 250 LBS!!!! holy moiy. I figured heavy but that's on the boarder of 'I can't lift this coffee table'. I guess you do have 10 SQFT of concrete 2 inches thick...

Yeah it doesn't get moved easily..... But with two people the top was perfectly manageable. Poured it in the shop and work and got in in and out of my truck and in the house just fine with two people.

RossD
RossD PowerDork
2/26/15 3:45 p.m.

Very cool!

"Hey honey, get your steel toed boots on, we need to move the coffee table again!"

mazdeuce
mazdeuce PowerDork
2/26/15 3:45 p.m.

Is this just plain Redi Mix type concrete?
Now you've got me thinking.......

java230
java230 New Reader
2/26/15 4:09 p.m.
mazdeuce wrote: Is this just plain Redi Mix type concrete? Now you've got me thinking.......

Yep just a 5000psi bagged mix. Whipped it with a mixer in a bucket. Might have added more air doing it that way, but its easy

84FSP
84FSP Reader
2/26/15 4:37 p.m.

Awesome

The0retical
The0retical HalfDork
2/26/15 6:07 p.m.

Cool project. Interested to see the countertops as it's something I was considering.

lnlogauge
lnlogauge Reader
2/26/15 8:26 p.m.

If you are considering doing counter tops, buy this book. even if you aren't considering it, buy the book anyway because it is flipping beautiful.

I want to do counter tops, but I need solid counters before considering it. The weight would be too much for the formica crap I have now.

Enyar
Enyar Dork
2/27/15 8:06 a.m.

Cost?

Rusted_Busted_Spit
Rusted_Busted_Spit GRM+ Memberand UberDork
2/27/15 8:57 a.m.

I am wanting to do concrete counter tops this spring. Thanks for the write up.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson UltimaDork
2/27/15 9:05 a.m.

So glad you did this, I'm considering a kitchenette / bar in the basement in the future and would love to do concrete counter tops down there, I would love to see you try that next to learn from.

I'm not sure I fully followed your leg anchors, can you explain again for this dumb dumb please?

TRoglodyte
TRoglodyte SuperDork
2/27/15 9:11 a.m.

In reply to java230:Nice job , thank you for sharing. As far as the off topic comment, if you have been lurking long you know we discuss anything from Apples to Zombies in minute detail, often with pictures!

java230
java230 New Reader
2/27/15 5:42 p.m.
Enyar wrote: Cost?

I've got $75 in it. I had the sealers, waxes, bolts and steel, and form materials.

java230
java230 New Reader
2/27/15 6:07 p.m.
Adrian_Thompson wrote: So glad you did this, I'm considering a kitchenette / bar in the basement in the future and would love to do concrete counter tops down there, I would love to see you try that next to learn from. I'm not sure I fully followed your leg anchors, can you explain again for this dumb dumb please?

Sure! They are called wedge anchors, they are made to be used in hard concrete, you drill a hole, drive them in and when you tighten the nut they wedge themselves into the hole. I just used them as all thread or a bolt basically. I had Them laying around.

Then I just attached the steel plates to the top of the wooden legs and bolted them on

jgrewe
jgrewe Reader
2/28/15 11:40 a.m.

I love it. I used to own a redi-mix company, had three mix on site trucks.

When you are looking at mix designs I'm sure your are seeing the strength of concrete is mostly about water to Portland ratios. There are some great admixes that make low slump concrete flow like water but keep the strength. Too much water equals weak concrete.

There is also nylon fiber reinforcement products that you mix into the wet concrete. Look for 3/4" fibers and experiment. Sometimes they would work their way to the surface and make the finished concrete micro-fuzzy. Since you are basically casting this may not be a problem. It was an issue when the guys were putting a steel trowel finish on the work. The fibers wear off quickly but drove the finishers nuts.

Concrete is about 125lbs/cu.ft. We used to tell people concrete will do three things: get hard, turn grey, crack. Choosing the crack locations is the trick. The thinner the profile, the smaller the area.

java230
java230 New Reader
2/28/15 2:35 p.m.

The next mic I'm going to try is 50% sand 40% Portland and 10% Csa. And a butt ton of fiber mesh. The fibers burn off easy if they come to the surface, I did have a little on the edges mostly on mine.

One of my Co workers is going to do one as an outdoor fire table so that will be the next experiment.

oldtin
oldtin UberDork
2/28/15 2:43 p.m.

Cool project. At one point I thought I had heard of folks using foam beads or other light weight aggregate to cut the weight

Skervey
Skervey Reader
2/28/15 10:46 p.m.

Very cool iv always wanted to this as well I think doing a table as a test run is a grate idea. If I ever get a house I will have to give this a try!

ihayes
ihayes New Reader
2/28/15 11:48 p.m.

I've done the concrete countertops in the kitchen. Do a search for Buddy Rhodes and countertops (I think that's his name) on youtube. Similar to your method except thicker cement, no vibration as a slurry was used to fill in the gaps. It gets sort of a marbled look if you use multiple colors. Also, used fiberglass fibers instead of metal mesh, as mentioned above. And finished with a wet sander. Its pretty easy, if messy & time consuming.

About the same cost as the composite (corian etc) countertops you if you buy his branded stuff (I did). Probably cheaper if you mix and match brands

mbruneaux
mbruneaux New Reader
3/1/15 7:27 p.m.

I remember visiting someone in Upstate New York who were remodeling what had to be a $2 million house and they loved their new cement countertops.

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