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SV reX
SV reX MegaDork
9/3/23 1:15 p.m.

In reply to Toyman! :

I can completely relate to wanting an extended cab and an 8' bed. That's what I had (and wanted) for years. 
 

I now drive a crew cab with a 5 1/2' bed. And it has a cap over the bed, (just to make loading a little harder).  For me, I've found the 5 1/2' bed is just fine.

My cab rear window opens, so when I need occasional long stuff I can load it all the way through the cab. I can put 12' stuff inside and close the rear lift gate.  For a few sheets of plywood, I can open the tailgate (which makes it 7 1/2'). That works fine.  If I have more bulk, or extremely heavy stuff I hook up my car trailer (it's honestly not too often- maybe once a month). For large loads, I have it delivered. 
 

So, it IS possible to work out of a 5 1/2' bed. 
 

My cap also keeps stuff dry in the bed, and reasonably secure. I keep most of my tools on board (and never have to load/ unload).    That's something the Cyborg will never be able to do (because it's unlikely there will ever be a cap that fits on it)

I think this is why such a huge percentage of trucks have become crew/ 5 1/2' bed.  People who own them have realized it's not that big a compromise.

 

Toyman!
Toyman! GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/3/23 1:27 p.m.

In reply to SV reX :

While I could get by with one, my guys couldn't. We already have to tow trailers 25% because the 8' beds are too small. Trailers make parking impossible in downtown areas and parking garages which is where we work 95% of the time. The shorter bed would make that problem infinitely worse and is therefore useless to me. Ladder racks are out because of parking garage height limits. 

We will just keep burning gas and passing those costs to the customer.

MrJoshua
MrJoshua UltimaDork
9/9/23 1:40 p.m.
Toyman! said:

In reply to SV reX :

While I could get by with one, my guys couldn't. We already have to tow trailers 25% because the 8' beds are too small. Trailers make parking impossible in downtown areas and parking garages which is where we work 95% of the time. The shorter bed would make that problem infinitely worse and is therefore useless to me. Ladder racks are out because of parking garage height limits. 

We will just keep burning gas and passing those costs to the customer.

Silly idea-but the new Lightning is 96" wide with mirrors soooo: Ford needs a fold down bedside feature that creates a 96" wide space where you can put plywood in perpendicular to the truck!

"What? You think the beds too small? This baby has the biggest bed on the market. clunk/clunk. Got ya a 5 1/2' by 8' bed right here buddy!" smiley

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
9/16/23 3:17 p.m.

Time for a quick road trip update! We're all the way in Massachusetts now, visiting my cousin for a few days.
 

He's a big reason I bought my truck, since he's had his for a year or so already and loves it. And it's a truck for real work, too: He's a shellfish farmer that uses his Lightning to haul cages/boats/oysters/etc. all over the place. 

This is a pretty rural area, which he says plays to the truck's strengths perfectly. There aren't any gas stations on his daily routes, but there's plenty of electricity at home. And the truck's power outlets mean he doesn't have to mess with generators or gas cans down at the shore to run equipment. During power outages, he plugs the house into the truck. He kept talking about how much he'd love to convert his boats to electric outboards to see the same benefits, but hasn't quite figured out how to package the battery packs yet. 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/16/23 4:16 p.m.

I happened to be hanging out at the track with my Ford packaging engineer friend today, and I asked him about the cab/battery layout. Turns out the battery is NOT under the cab for safety reasons, it's simply the fact that in order to package the battery and the inverters etc in the frame, that's where it ended up. There's no technical reason Ford couldn't do an extended cab long bed. It's just that they decided the crew cab short bed was the high volume option.

He also can't talk about what he's working on now, but apparently the discussion is about just how spicy to make it.

J.A. Ackley
J.A. Ackley Senior Editor
9/16/23 6:00 p.m.

Hey, Tom - how did this fare in New York traffic?

I'll have to admit it - I was a bit impressed by the truck as a passenger this past week. It worked well as we sought out parts and tools for my Caddy project.  

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
9/16/23 7:20 p.m.

It did great! Even after running for parts all day and then taking a super weird Waze route up Long Island, we made it nearly to the Cape with 17% charge remaining. Success!

Recon1342
Recon1342 SuperDork
9/16/23 10:39 p.m.

In reply to Tom Suddard :

At what battery level do you say "We need to find a charger NOW"? 10%? 15%?

On the ICE pickups, I get nervous below 1/4 tank, but that's just because I prefer to keep them topped off.

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
9/17/23 8:13 a.m.

In reply to Recon1342 :

I've run it down to 2 or 3% before. Unlike a gas car, there's not much uncertainty around how much energy is still in the tank or how much it will take to get there, so I'm pretty comfortable running it low. 

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
9/21/23 7:59 a.m.

I didn't shoot an overall photo, but we visited another Tesla Magic Dock yesterday. Maximum charge rate was, again, only about 120kw. That's 3/3, so I'm ready to say my truck charges slower on Tesla Magic Dock than it does at a (working) EA charger. But the Tesla chargers also work 100% of the time as far as I can tell, so I'll pick them over EA every day of the week. 

Also notable: When we pulled in, an elderly person in a Mach-E said "you must be my prayers answered!" Then proceeded to tell me she was road-tripping through NY from Maine, her Mustang's NAV had taken her to this charger, but "she had no idea the Tesla adapter was already out!" But she had no idea how to charge her car. She'd never heard the words"Magic Dock," and wasn't skilled enough with a smartphone to download the app, create a Tesla account, add a credit card, update her billing profile, then start the charge with a slightly unintuitive flick of the wrist to unlock the charger.

I spent 20 minutes helping her do all of that and start a charge, but it left me wondering how she got there and how this is going to scale up without serious education. People ask me constantly how to start charges at Electrify America chargers, too, despite them showing step-by-step instructions on the screen.

She was clearly in the know enough to buy a Mach-E and hear the news about the upcoming NACS transition, but not in the know enough to use a real trip planning app or to know about Tesla's detour through Magic Dock land. I'm also a little shocked the Ford Nav system took us to Tesla chargers--I was thrilled it knew about Magic Docks, but they're way harder to use than EA chargers that support plug-and-charge and pay at the pump. I'm not sure they should be recommended to users who don't know what they're getting into. 

APEowner
APEowner GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
9/21/23 10:29 a.m.
Tom Suddard said:

I didn't shoot an overall photo, but we visited another Tesla Magic Dock yesterday. Maximum charge rate was, again, only about 120kw. That's 3/3, so I'm ready to say my truck charges slower on Tesla Magic Dock than it does at a (working) EA charger. But the Tesla chargers also work 100% of the time as far as I can tell, so I'll pick them over EA every day of the week. 

Also notable: When we pulled in, an elderly person in a Mach-E said "you must be my prayers answered!" Then proceeded to tell me she was road-tripping through NY from Maine, her Mustang's NAV had taken her to this charger, but "she had no idea the Tesla adapter was already out!" But she had no idea how to charge her car. She'd never heard the words"Magic Dock," and wasn't skilled enough with a smartphone to download the app, create a Tesla account, add a credit card, update her billing profile, then start the charge with a slightly unintuitive flick of the wrist to unlock the charger.

I spent 20 minutes helping her do all of that and start a charge, but it left me wondering how she got there and how this is going to scale up without serious education. People ask me constantly how to start charges at Electrify America chargers, too, despite them showing step-by-step instructions on the screen.

She was clearly in the know enough to buy a Mach-E and hear the news about the upcoming NACS transition, but not in the know enough to use a real trip planning app or to know about Tesla's detour through Magic Dock land. I'm also a little shocked the Ford Nav system took us to Tesla chargers--I was thrilled it knew about Magic Docks, but they're way harder to use than EA chargers that support plug-and-charge and pay at the pump. I'm not sure they should be recommended to users who don't know what they're getting into. 

I wonder if there's a business case for full service charging stations.  Probably not, and certainly not long term but still, combined with other things to make the charging station a destination full service might be enough to pull people in.  Particularly if the service included moving your car to and from the charger if there isn't an open one.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/21/23 10:38 a.m.

There's a business case for full service parking, I can see it working for charging as well.

Interesting interaction at the Tesla charger. The Magic Dock is a bit of a kluge until NACS gets implemented on other vehicles, and I can see how it might be a little too tech-forward to work. I have a similar experience every time I pull up to a diesel pump at a truck stop that requires a proprietary card - I have to walk into the store (not a short walk, usually, and over asphalt coated in diesel oil and full of idling big rigs), stand in line, give them a credit card, return to the pump, pump 30-odd gallons in about 15 seconds, walk back, stand in line, retrieve card, return to truck. It's a super-easy experience for those truckers that have the special card, though.

It think the Magic Dock might be an evolutionary dead end. Almost every EV maker (with a couple of holdouts) is adopting it natively, and I'm assuming that also means they'll speak a version of Plug and Charge that is understood by the Tesla charger. This makes the Magic Dock and app payment irrelevant.

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
9/21/23 10:41 a.m.

Yeah, I'm not sure what the perfect answer is. This charger was in a Dunkin' donuts parking lot. It's pretty common for them to be near something like that, so maybe it's as simple as paying Dunkin' some money to handle cash sales for the chargers out front, just like the clerk at a gas station. But that also ups the complication/difficulty immensely, and removes one reason it's so much cheaper and easier to build charging stations than gas stations.

I'm wondering if the right answer is to just directly copy the gas pump experience, as flawed as it is. People don't read very well, but all of them have worked a gas pump before. Lay the chargers out in the same orientation. Have the different speeds and connectors staged as three different hoses. Pay before plugging in and select your hose. Use the exact same annoying little screen with a zip code keypad, and throw the same greasy lever to start the charge. It would make charging stations more expensive and more complicated, but 1-2 "gas pump experience" chargers at each charging station would help the 5-10% of EV drivers I've encountered who have no idea how to charge their cars. 

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
9/21/23 10:42 a.m.
Keith Tanner said:

There's a business case for full service parking, I can see it working for charging as well.

Interesting interaction at the Tesla charger. The Magic Dock is a bit of a kluge until NACS gets implemented on other vehicles, and I can see how it might be a little too tech-forward to work. I have a similar experience every time I pull up to a diesel pump at a truck stop that requires a proprietary card - I have to walk into the store (not a short walk, usually, and over asphalt coated in diesel oil and full of idling big rigs), stand in line, give them a credit card, return to the pump, pump 30-odd gallons in about 15 seconds, walk back, stand in line, retrieve card, return to truck). It's a super-easy experience for those truckers that have the special card, though.

It think the Magic Dock might be an evolutionary dead end. Almost every EV maker (with a couple of holdouts) is adopting it natively, and I'm assuming that also means they'll speak a version of Plug and Charge that is understood by the Tesla charger. This makes the Magic Dock and app payment irrelevant.

100% agreed. It feels like charging with Betamax. Objectively pretty clever. But no way it'll be here in a decade.

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
9/21/23 10:46 a.m.

Oh, and FWIW she insisted on giving me $20 for my efforts. So overall, it was a pretty solid charging experience.laugh And standing there for 20 minutes meant I got way more electricity than I needed, and don't have to worry about charging for the rest of the week.

NY Nick
NY Nick GRM+ Memberand Dork
9/21/23 11:24 a.m.
Tom Suddard said:

Oh, and FWIW she insisted on giving me $20 for my efforts. So overall, it was a pretty solid charging experience.laugh And standing there for 20 minutes meant I got way more electricity than I needed, and don't have to worry about charging for the rest of the week.

LOL, see attached @ 15 seconds. Great thread, thanks for the info!

 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/21/23 3:22 p.m.

Made contact with a friend inside Tesla charging. The Magic Dock adapter is currently (ha) limited to 120 kW (aka 300A) at the moment, but it might be further unlocked later after more testing.

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
9/21/23 4:42 p.m.

I-knew-it-i-knew-it GIFs - Get the best GIF on GIPHY

 

Excellent pun, though.

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
9/24/23 8:20 p.m.

We're back on the road, finally headed home to Florida.

We've got a charging stop between New York and our stop in DC for the night, and I realized I don't think I've showed the Nav screen yet. Basically, put in your destination and it figures out how much power it will take, plans charging stops, and tells you when, where and how long to stop. This is our view while charging:

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/26/23 7:54 p.m.

What's the little icon of two cars with up and down arrows just under the Details button? Following distance for adaptive cruise?

What controls are physical, dedicated knobs/buttons and what are onscreen?

You'll be glad to know that the Superchargers in Moab have been upgraded with Magic Docks, so you can go offroading there now! The only CCS chargers in town have been inop for about a year.

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
9/27/23 6:34 p.m.

That icon indicates the truck has a data connection, Keith. And one reason I bought a lower trim level is all the buttons--radio and HVAC controls all have physical knobs, just like a normal Ford truck. Same with headlights, cruise, etc. etc. 

Woohoo! More Magic Docks!

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
9/27/23 7:29 p.m.

So Nicole and I got home Monday night, after driving from Washington, D.C. home to Daytona Beach, Florida in one day. We didn't start with a full charge, as there was only a wall outlet to plug into overnight. Total distance was just under 800 miles, and the truck was fully loaded in the frunk, cab and bed, though not towing anything.

The drive took us just under 15 hours, but would have been 14.5 if it wasn't for absolutely terrible weather/traffic for the last 50 miles. We pretty much only stopped for charging, with a few non-charging rest areas thrown in when necessary. Google Maps says that it's 11 hours without any stops at all, but we've never managed to do it in less than 12-13 in gas cars once traffic/bathroom breaks/meals are factored in. So there's a slight time penalty with an electric truck. Total cost for this 800 mile drive was $139.98, which was all expensive public charging except for the $13.69 recharge once we arrived at home. That makes our cost per mile $0.174975

The only time we couldn't pull right up and plug in happened at one EA charger where half the stalls were broken and the other half were occupied, costing us about 20 minutes. And every Electrify America charger put out less power than advertised, usually by 20-75%. But overall, every charger worked and we arrived home when the truck estimated we would after planning its stops.

Yesterday's national average gas price for regular was $3.838, so this trip would have cost $255.87 in fuel in my old F-250. Or, to think about it another way, our cost was the same as road-tripping in a truck that gets 21.93 mpg. If we'd been able to start with a full charge of cheap house electricity, this equivalent fuel mileage would jump to 27.9 mpg. I guess that means I need to wire in a 240v outlet at my sister-in-law's house....

This was the final leg of a 3.5-week-long road trip that took us across the Northeast and added more than 4000 miles to the truck's odometer, plus another 600 miles added to a borrowed Lucid EV. And, overall, I absolutely love the truck. EV infrastructure is growing rapidly, and every single network except Electrify America seems to be building fast, reliable chargers, and doing it quickly. And after four fill-ups at Tesla Superchargers, I'm really excited for next year's opening of the Tesla network to the rest of us. We visited areas as urban as downtown D.C. and NYC, and as rural as upstate New York. The vast majority of our charging happened at public DC fast chargers, but we also took advantage of level 2 chargers and home outlets when available, mostly because I'm cheap and love free electricity.

The tech is not there yet for somebody who's driving 800 miles every day. But even for me, who roadtrips a lot, I believe the upside (11 months of incredibly cheap, incredibly convenient fuel at home) outweighs the downside (one month of public charging on a roadtrip). Plus, it's hard to overstate how much faster, quieter, and just plain better this drives than a new F-150 with the 3.5-liter EcoBoost or the Coyote.

And one more note: After parking the truck in my driveway with an empty tank at 10pm, I walked outside the next morning to run errands and it was full. I still don't understand why this feature isn't front and center in every single EV commercial.

Feel free to draw your own conclusions, but I figure documenting all this might be helpful as we go through a rather interesting time in car technology. And if nothing else, maybe we'll read this again in 10 years and say "driving an electric truck down I-95 really warranted a whole post and math and stuff? Why?"

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
9/30/23 10:12 a.m.

I've got another giant trip coming up soon, so I splurged on an OBDII dongle that can suck live data out of the truck while I'm driving. It got here yesterday, and I did a little test loop driving over to pick up the big enclosed trailer, then dragging it home. I'm excited for all of the math this little thing will let me do!

NermalSnert (Forum Supporter)
NermalSnert (Forum Supporter) HalfDork
9/30/23 10:22 a.m.

Curious about using it for back-up power for your house. With your particular use, how long do you expect it to power the house and can you tell it to leave me x number of miles before empty?

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
9/30/23 11:39 a.m.

Yes, you can tell it "save me XX miles of range," or there's a setting "save me enough range to get to the nearest charger."

My A/C isn't wired to my transfer switch, so I'm expecting the truck to run my house for nearly a week. 

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