MPG Gains?

In reply to alfadriver :

Thanks! Yeah, I do try to keep all that in mind, I tend to stay off the interstate unless I'm headed to our 2 neighboring towns about 10 miles away,  and travel the 35-45 mph hour roads - honestly,  most time saved using the interstate is lost trying to merge at the  bottom of the off ramps or waiting at the lights there. For across town, it's just not worth it.

Oil, I run a 5W30 full synth, recommended is 10W30, I don't wanna go much lower. 

Are you sure about not putting it in neutral downhill? I thought that if my pistons are moving at 2500 rpm, that means it's still drawing fuel into the combustion chamber? In neutral I drop down to maybe 400 rpm. 

My car tends to get 24 mpg city right now, average for the year and model is 22. And that's after I hit a deer and crumpled the hood. 

DeliveryGuy89 said:

That's a veritable ****ton of money saved. For 800 bucks? That's what I'd pay to put in a new water pump and half of what I'd pay to get a new timing belt.

I may be reading this wrong, but it sounds like you don’t do your own maintenance? Because that will save you more than gas saving tips ever will 

I'm not so sure of the added oil life of propane on a modern FI engine.  When cars were carbed most would add to much fuel when cold and some would all the time which did add to combustion deposits and shorter oil life.  With today's FI cars only the amount of fuel needed to burn is added and the DI engines are even better at this. Many new cars can go 10K with the modern synthetic oils that are available.

In reply to DeliveryGuy89 :

I don’t know of any OEM that does not shut the fuel off after a second or two of a fully closed throttle   

Given the running situation, it’s actually a lot better for the engine and catalyst to have no fuel when it’s running negative torque  

And, yes, no fuel at 2500rpm is better than fuel at whatever neutral idle is. 

In reply to russ_mill :

I have nerve damage in my hands from breaking my back as a child. My fine motor skills aren't up to par to do my own work past a certain point. 

Edit:  I can do oil, headlights, brakes, sparks, all tire work.  Changed my Serpentine belt on my old Jetta once.  Past that it's all fun n games until you lose a bolt because your finger strength isn't good enough.

In reply to jimbbski :

Idk if I'd call a 96 modem. Isn't that the first year of obdIi?

In reply to alfadriver :

Well hell. Good to know. I'm gonna have to alter my entire driving style lolol. I've been driving manuals with it in neutral on downhill for ten years. FML lolol 

In reply to jimbbski :

Oh I see what you're saying - that's why it extends oil life. The propane conversion I'm getting basically tricks your O2 sensor into thinking the engine is running about 30% rich and tells the computer to back off the gasoline flow. So the same amount of fuel goes into the combustion chamber, but 30% of it is clean burning propane. 30% less gasoline getting burned at any given time = 30% less buildup. In theory at least, I might be wrong on the specific science behind it, but that's what I got from the conversion manufacturer. 

DeliveryGuy89 said:

In reply to jimbbski :

Oh I see what you're saying - that's why it extends oil life. The propane conversion I'm getting basically tricks your O2 sensor into thinking the engine is running about 30% rich and tells the computer to back off the gasoline flow. So the same amount of fuel goes into the combustion chamber, but 30% of it is clean burning propane. 30% less gasoline getting burned at any given time = 30% less buildup. In theory at least, I might be wrong on the specific science behind it, but that's what I got from the conversion manufacturer. 

Sounds like an easy way to get knock. Where the heck would you fill up on propane? Using standard grill tanks? Here in Omaha, we have some state government CNG Vehicles but I only know of one station.

As for getting better mileage, you're in a tight spot as most things we can suggest sound like they detract from something else. Ditch replacing window glass for lexan/plexi for the same reason you shouldn't take much of your interior out- it'll make your car colder, since you're just not gonna be able to seal the lexan as well to the frame, and with your guy's winters you need to be ready to stay in a vehicle for long periods. I CAN suggest removing seats, but I think you've already done that. Hypermiling techniques are kinda in the same boat- overinflate your tires and your tread wear will be uneven, making you use more. Plus, with the contact surface mostly on the "tip" of the tire you're gonna loose out on grip in snow, which is bad news.

Going for a lighter oil is a bad idea- 0 weight oils are meant for current engines with very tight tolerances, and engines have progressed more from 1992 til now than from 1902 to 1992. In running a lighter oil, there's less "thickness" to it, meaning it can't "soak" up more space than usual. It'll run okay when it's warm, but you'll steadily cause engine damage.

I  would suggest some of the other comments tho- more aero, keep your engine air filters clean, remove interior seats for less weight, and maybe ditch your AC for further weight savings. Also, look into making a belly pan underneath and lowering the car slightly- difficult to say how much considering winter, but that pan would keep air from getting trapped underneath and "lifting" the car, and lowering it would keep less air going underneath anway. The cost of this however, might quickly cancel itself out.

In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :

Yup! It runs from a 20 lb tank in the trunk.

The system, best as I can describe it, runs a hose into your air intake system, where it attaches into a vacuum release system - as your engine draws air, the valve meters out a fraction the intake volume with propane. 

Since the propane expands more than vaporized gasoline, the sensors read it as about 30% rich.

Shouldn't cause knocking - propane and gasoline are both high efficiency hydro carbons, with perhaps a 10% difference in efficiency. Now, if I was running pure gasoline, sure, there might be a differential that would potentially cause some issues, but as I run ethanol infused gasoline, the power output and BTU requirements are roughly the same.  

As far as costs for modifications go, I'm not too worried. Like I said, I spend about $375 a month on gasoline. So the way I see it, everything is about the long run. I'll spend play money now to have more play money later. 

http://www.dieselperformanceproducts.com

The website is a bit basic, but honestly I will always trust a dubious home brew system over any corporate magic performance enhancing nonsense. 

Here, this is the basic info sheet they sent me.

DeliveryGuy89 said:

In reply to jimbbski :

Oh I see what you're saying - that's why it extends oil life. The propane conversion I'm getting basically tricks your O2 sensor into thinking the engine is running about 30% rich and tells the computer to back off the gasoline flow. So the same amount of fuel goes into the combustion chamber, but 30% of it is clean burning propane. 30% less gasoline getting burned at any given time = 30% less buildup. In theory at least, I might be wrong on the specific science behind it, but that's what I got from the conversion manufacturer. 

Not sure if you will be able to replace 30% of the fuel- I think most OEM's will trigger a MIL light if the fuel error exceeds 25%.

What are you delivering? 24 mpg is not bad for in town 0-45 and back sprints. I switched to a 91 Escort pony and was close to 30 mpg...but...this was with no AC, no power steering, no cruise control, manual transmission and skinny hard tires. Aero mods seemed to have very little effect, while making handle better with better tires and upgraded suspension parts allowed me to keep my speed through all the turns and such.

Sounds like 120 to 160 miles per day (if you work every day) or roughly 4500 miles a month. Right at .12 per mile for fuel costs.

How are you being paid to deliver? Per mile? Per run?

Might be best to work on avoiding things that reduce gas usage such as how and where you drive. Some things are sneaky too! A weak cell on my battery cost up to 3% of my gas mileage. Of course, tire inflation and alignment count too.

Bruce

In reply to alfadriver :

You're correct, I was mistaken on some of the science. It's a dual system in the way that it works - it tricks the sensor octo removing a little fuel, but at the same time, as propane burns hotter, it allows for a more complete burn of the gasoline?

Or that's how it works with their diesel one. Tons of independent reviews on the power shot 2000 this company- makes for diesel, but zilch on the gas ones. 

But since they have a ton of people using the diesel version, i've found them all over various forums, i'll trust they know what they're doing with gas, too.

Im not sold on the propane option, as i remember propane is less efficient than gas in most engines and propane is not stupendously cheaper than gas , say.....30 ish cents a gallon less.

I mean, propane has its benefits, next generator i put in is a propane model but ive run propane fridges, hot water heaters and stoves for many years on 5 gallon tanks. Its a pain getting it vs gas and its not stupid cheap that way

DeliveryGuy89 said:

In reply to alfadriver :

Or that's how it works with their diesel one. Tons of independent reviews on the power shot 2000 this company- makes for diesel, but zilch on the gas ones. 

But since they have a ton of people using the diesel version, i've found them all over various forums, i'll trust they know what they're doing with gas, too.

And that's the next problem- you're talking about a gas engine, not a diesel. Diesels can handle knock far better and dual-fuel setups on them are known and have advantages. Gas can't do that.

I'm gonna be honest, I think this is a fool's errand. I have little doubt that kit would cost you hundreds more in short order chasing problems until whatever amount it could save you would be nullified.

I agree that the propane conversion may not save you money.  Look at it this way.  They claim you will burn .5 cfm at 20 in of vacuum.  A standard 20 lb propane tank has roughly 140 cf capacity.  At that rate you will use up the tank in 280 minutes or 4.6667 hours of driving.  if you average around 40 MPH that means a tank will go 186.667 miles.  divide that into 4500 miles a month and you go through 24 tanks a month.  Around here a tank fill is $20.  Grand total $482 per month.  I don't want to come across as rude.  I just think they are bamboozling people on the gas conversions.  It may make sense in a large diesel that gets 4 mpg by helping the combustion cycle burn hotter etc., but in an already (relatively) efficient engine I see at as an exercise in frustration. 

Do you have a roof rack? I gained 1mpg average on my Jeep just removing the crossbars from my roof rack. If you have rails remove them too.

I hung out on ecomodder.com for several years and really enjoyed the knowledge gained and mpg results. Vehicular dna, tires and tire pressure, driving methodology, maintenance, and aero (highway speeds) were the best results. The car was already gutted 500 lbs. beforehand, which probably helped around town mpg but not on highways. I wound up with tire psi in the 60s (80 is brutal! but very effective) with no abnormal tire wear. 4 cylinder Honda. It was rated at 24 town/28 highway but I always averaged about 32. After hypermiling I easily averaged over 37-38 (no highway) and could average mid 40s. Best was 52.5 on a long sllooowww trip. Doubt if I could achieve the same percentages with the V6 Ranger but don't care to try anyway. If, in your position, I could see having a little 50 mpg Honda/Toyota/etc. for non winter months. 

My suggestion.... Trade in the Suby for a nice used Mazda 3 with the skyactive engine.  If my calculations are correct, jumping from 24mpg to 40mpg average would save you $150 month, thats enough for a small car payment.  If you don't want to do that,  then follow the advice of others on this forum.  I would say to use the interstate as much as you can.  you don't HAVE to go 65-70.  Corners scrub speed and cost mileage.  The straighter and smoother the road the better (for mileage at least). and ditch the Winterforce tires when you can, that old blocky tread pattern is terrible for mileage.  Try amore modern, off brand Studless snow (General Altimax Arctic etc.) for the winter, and buy buy the hardest hockey puck low roll resistance tire possible for spring-fall.

Before you start throwing money at it...

Have you even done a proper tune-up with new plugs and a clean air filter? Changed the fluids for fresh synthetic, checked your tire pressures or thrown out all the accumulated crap in the trunk?

It's kinda like the guy who wants to start saving money but won't quit smoking.

Its a Subaru, smoking is implied. 

If a Prius is not an option, how about Highlander or Escape hybrid?  Both should handily crush the Subaru's mpg returns and outperform it in deep snow.

As someone who drives in a snow belt, the winterforce are way underrated for dealing with wet heavy snow on top of ice. Just about the only tire short of blizzaks that deal with it well that i've driven. Sometimes, living is better than saving 2 or 3 mpg.

In reply to FunkyCricket :

I agree, I haven't had a single issue with them, been able to stop on a dime whenever needed. 

In reply to ShawnG :

Spark plugs, air filter, cabin filter, timing belt, water pump, alignment, rotation, made the dealer do the first 5 and had my own mechanic certify the work before I bought it outright with cash - three months ago - thanks.  I've also done the oil 3 times since then, all full synthetic, and ran Seafoam through the crank case 300 miles before draining every single time, ran it through the fuel tank 2 or 3 times too.  I've also done a radiator flush and a transmission flush, and just in case they do a 20th of what they say, I added ZMax to my oil and tranny on one occasion.  

Oh wait, I also forgot - I went ahead and bought a 55 gallon drum of synthetic oil for 510 bucks after delivery. That's 44 oil changes (4 years worth for me, probably 12 years worth for the average driver), or about 720 dollars cheaper in the long run than buying oil every time I need it. My filter costs 4 bucks. There's me spending 4 bucks a month at instead of 28. Hurt my pocket book a little bit, but I had the extra money and hey, why not.

Oh, and I charge the other drivers for my company 25 bucks to change their oil if they bring their own filter. There's 20 of them. I'm about halfway through it and have more than made my money back. 

Anything else condescending you'd like to say? 

It's better to spend a lot of money now to save more money in the future.