Nocones $2020 challenge build thread

 For some reason I sense this build is way further along the time /date stamp on your photos no?

In reply to 759NRNG (Forum Partidario) :

I'm not sure I understand?  The pictures of the dash I took this morning..  The time stamp on any videos is all messed up as both my camera and FauxPro think it's like 2002.  

So I scanned through and couldn't find anything... Are you in track and planning to compete this year? As in 29 days from now?

barefootskater said:

So I scanned through and couldn't find anything... Are you in track and planning to compete this year? As in 29 days from now?

This is what i'm asking.....basically ......and good on you iffen you do!!!!

oh and you have day job also????

Ohh I understand now..

no at some point it got bumped to 2021.  .

I will be shocked If I have a mostly done chassis by this year.

Where's a new video? BTW you got a compliment from Lil Stampie.  I showed him a video and he's watching it and digging the build.  Then I mention that you're GRM and it's a Challenge build then he's even more impressed.

In reply to nocones :

*understanding but sad noises*

Glad to hear people are enjoying the videos.  I have the next one filmed just editing it.  It's in the bin behind the MG video which is probably going to be done tomorrow.  

Last night I finished the front down tubes.  Got the ends notched and everything.  I know I said these where done before but they were not fully finished.



I started working on the cockpit floor.  I started with the center rail. 

I also bought a new tool to make the angles.  

Total length was 35-7/8".  

Tube used is now

4130 - 161.5"@ 6.50/ft = $120.79

2x2 - 191-5/8" @ 1.67/ft = $26.67

Total = $147.46

Are you building a custom seat? If so, alum or fiberglass? I may be going down a similar path soon.

In reply to maschinenbau (I live here) :

Yes I will be building seats however they really won't be seats.  The car will simply have a firewall/floor that is formed as a pair of seats.  It will be aluminum sheet riveted to the chassis with some formed pieces for the sides.  

This is basically the target look.  (You also get a little preview of the steering wheel I'm building..  shh it's secret)

It won't be a removable stand alone "seat".  I'm also considering leaving cavities and doing formed foam inserts like for a formula car.  The frame will basically be the same either way so I don't have to decide now.

It probably won't help other people much as it's not a real "seat" build.  But it may help you with your new project.  Also congrats on your ownership of another of the famous GRM Basically Free Community challenge cars of good Intentions.  We should form a club.  Anyone who finishes one will be our king.    I'm not sure how many there are.  The ones That have traveled through Paul are Free Europa and this $1 Subaru 360.  If they both show up at the challenge at the same time we may cause a black hole and collapse the message board in on itself.  Maybe search would work better then.. .

In reply to nocones :

Where did that angle tool come from?

DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

In reply to nocones :

Where did that angle tool come from?

I think tool shop is a menards brand

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

I got it at Menards for ~$8.

Menards Tool Shop Angle Divisor

It's actually pretty quality made.  The joints are nice and tight and the aluminum is thicker then I would have expected.  The clamp works pretty good also and the graduation markings for angle are pretty deeply etched and not full of anodizing and therefore unreadable.  

The only issue with it is it's designed to mark dimensional lumber so when used on small tubes the clamp gets in the way.  They intend you to use the edge of one of the links and use the slot as a guide.  This works great if your marked item is 4-12" wide.  I found I can use it on small tubes if I use the side of the long part as the edge and mark using the edge of the link.  Alternatively you can just transfer the angle to an adjustable combination-square.

I'm still looking for a big adjustable combination-square.  Mine is the typical HF 12" one.  I'd like something in the 24" range but with a longer adjustable shoe. The HF one just uses the same adjustment head for either length.  

From a design aesthetic, I am digging the crap out of those seats... but what about the possibility of using another driver of different size than you in events?  Curious as to your thought process on that, since you definitely seem to have thought every aspect of this out already.  Keep up the great work!

In reply to golfduke :

I am pleased with the seat concept and hope it looks as good as I think it will when I am done.  As to a different sized driver I think some amount of height difference will be tolerable by the layout.  I am planning to keep my legs somewhat bent with my heels being around 3-4" back from full extension.  That should tolerate a shorter driver if their legs are straighter.  Drivers of substantially less torso lengths then me may have issues though simply seeing over the front fenders.  This is the approach we used on our FSAE car (which had adjustable pedals that never got moved despite the drivers ranging from 5-6" to 6'-2") and the MG has no provisions for adjustments (And has been driven by drivers from ~5-8"-6'2").   

I have lots of time to think relative to how often I can build so I tend to overthink this thing.  I had not prior to your comment specifically thought about other drivers though.  With the MG it was a consideration early on as the goal of that car has always been if someone wants to drive it I let them (over my years autoxing I've been allowed to drive some alarmingly capable equipment that I could never hope to afford so I wanted to "pay it forward").  Relatively speaking that car is like a Miata turned up to 12 and is approachable by any competent driver.  The steering is a bit heavy but the car is neutral enough and responsive such that people can approach it and have fun without to much fear of them getting wildly in over there heads (Except my co-driver at nationals who hilariously tried to drive the car at ~15/10's every run and managed to get hit in the head with a cone for his trouble but was jalopnik famous for a day).  From the outset the LMP360 is a bit different.  I fully expect it to be a more difficult drive being Mid engined, more extreme driving position, more extreme Aero and also not as (long term) autox focused which trackdays just don't afford as many opportunities to toss people the keys for a quick lap.  Additionally there are a few control decisions I'm planning that will make the learning curve to drive it a bit steep (Can we say Fiddle Brakes and 5 on the Tree?).   Because of this I never really viewed it as a car that would be driven by others but maybe the car will surprise me and be docile and approachable like the MG is.  My suspension design theory is always towards make the car driveable with Linear response so it's possible it won't be as difficult as I imagine.  Maybe I will make a couple of foam wedges/inserts to the seat to accept radically different height drivers.   

And progress update:

3 lower tubes are fitted (37-7/8" per side tube).  Just need welded together. 

That should be it for the 2" tube.  I will probably then nearly fully weld this bottom frame before moving on to the roll bar mounting plates.  

Tube used is now

4130 - 161.5"@ 6.50/ft = $120.79

2x2 - 267-3/8" @ 1.67/ft = $37.21

Total = $158.00

So, can i ask what fiddle brakes are?

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) :

I did the same thing :)

https://www.turnology.com/news/treacherous-tech-mclarens-fiddle-brake/

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) :

They're the same as violin brakes, but you use them differently. 

I learned a thing.

Thats pretty neat!

Kinda like the hydraulic hand brake the drift and rally guys use.

Five on the tree!

Outta Sight!

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) :

I read it more as a kind of posi diff where you could actively control the amount of spin and grip on the inside tire.

Yes you guys got to the bottom of Fiddle brakes.  We ran them on an FSAE car we built with an open diff.  The guy who "engineered" the levers did a bad job and they couldn't back off enough to let more fluid in so you had to bleed them to make them work, and they were difficult to drive. So the team considered them a failure.  But for 3-5 laps they where amazing.  You could make the car do things that didn't seem possible.  Corner entry comands of the car was impressive.  Braking with the main brakes, steering input with the wheel and then clamp the fiddle and stomp the throttle would make the car turn very sharp.  You could Slalom with nearly no steering input, plant the throttle and control corner exit with the brakes, recover from skids without counter steer, and the big one was stop or induce car rotation without changing steering angle.   Ever sense I've wanted to try them in a full size car.  The MG has a LSD and I don't think they will be as effective.    I'm not sure I will get them on for Challenge $$ or not.  I've also not decided on an actuation system.  I would plan to use a 2nd set of calipers to leave the main brakes alone.

5 on the tree is for 2 reasons.  Space is at a premium in the front knee area.  Behind / beside the steering wheel has plenty of room. The 2nd is all about making the shifter as simple as possible.   Actuation of the  column shifter can be easily accomplished with 2 lateral links from 1 pivot on the column.  I will then run concentric torsion tubes to the back to actuate the shifter.  

And I guess 3 reasons..  because 5 on the Tree just sounds awesome.