In reply to Toyman01 :
I've got one of those and have crawled all over trying to isolate the sound. They claim they're absolutely sure that it's the right bank. But it always sounded louder to me on the head than on the block. The fuel rail and the exhaust, post turbo seem to ring the loudest. If an injection pump wasn't a grand I would consider just trying one of those, but the body of the pump isn't that loud.
I agree that that is a CYA / go away type of quote. Sucks that this problem is so stubborn. I think finding a shop with a lot of Sprinter experience and running it by them might be worthwhile. I still think it's valvetrain related. If you assume that to be the case, then you basically have a ceiling on how much this can hurt: Replace every single lifter and rocker. But I really do hate that approach, so i'm just mentioning that as...consolation? I seriously doubt it's the bottom end. If it was a wristpin or connecting rod bearing problem then disabling injectors would change the sound coming from that cylinder.
I wonder what a good used replacement engine would cost? I'd be temped to check LKQ to see if the have one anywhere nearby. Check for wrecked Sprinter with the right engine at the same time.
LS swap?
In reply to Vigo :
I am very seriously considering just pulling the whole head and taking it to my local, trusted machine shop. About $100 for them to look at it and clean it up, if I get them the parts, probably another $500-$700 to have them do a head job with new everything.
If I do pull the head off, is there anything that I can do to "test" the then-exposed pistons? Obviously I can look for any chips or cracks in the top, but would there be anything I could see there that would indicate a bottom-end problem?
In reply to Type Q :
I've looked around and it's in the $5000-$9000 range for a 642.825. I haven't checked for the other versions that they would have used in the Sprinter. I think the main difference is that the Sprinter version doesn't have the swirl flap sensors and I've heard that the cams are different, but I have no proof of that.
I wouldn't even mind spending the $5k on a used engine (and then another bunch of money doing oil seals, swirl motor, and timing chain) -- if I knew for certain that's what I actually need.
In reply to EvanB :
If I thought there was any chance in hell of HAL9000 being able to deal with the fact that it wasn't in control of the engine, that might be a fun option. But what would actually happen is it would refuse to open the pod bay doors and I'd freeze to death in the cold expanse of space. Or something like that.
Well, pistons themselves are either physically broken or they're not. If you have good compression (which you probably do because your engine starts easily and runs smoothly) then the chance of having a piston related problem is pretty low. Like i said, if you can kill injectors while the engine is running you can rule out a bottom end problem because a connecting rod bearing or wristpin's noise will change with the absence of combustion whereas a valvetrain noise would not change.
I'm using this space to make some notes for myself and possibly provide Google fodder for anyone else in the future that needs it...
The right head part number is 642-010-06-21. This appears to be the bare casting, no valves, no cams, but would have to include the head cover. Interchange, according to MB parts catalog appears to be (all with 3L V6):
2011-2013 E350
2011-2012 GL350
2010-2011 ML350
2010-2012 R350
2010-2017 Sprinter 2500 & 3500
Exhaust valve part number is 642-050-05-27 and there are 12 of them. Interchange is (all with 3L V6):
2007-2009 E320
2011-2013 E350
2007-2009 GL320
2010-2012 GL350
2007-2009 ML320
2010-2011 ML350
2007-2009 R320
2010-2012 R350
2010-2017 Sprinter 2500 & 3500
Intake valve part number is 642-053-04-01 and there are 12 of those as well. Interchange is (all with 3L V6):
2007-2009 E320
2011-2013 E350
2007-2009 GL320
2010-2016 GL350
2007-2009 ML320
2010-2014 ML350
2007-2008 R320
2010-2012 R350
2012-2013 S350
2010-2017 Sprinter 2500 & 3500
Upper spring retainer part number is 668-053-00-25. 24 of those in the engine. Interchange is:
2014-2016 E250 (2.1L L4)
2011-2013 E350 (3L V6)
2007-2009 GL320 (3L V6)
2010-2016 GL350 (3L V6)
2016-2016 GLE300d (2.1L L4)
2013-2015 GLK250 (2.1L L4)
2015-2015 ML250 (2.1L L4)
2007-2009 ML320 (3L V6)
2010-2014 ML350 (3L V6)
2007-2009 R320 (3L V6)
2010-2012 R350 (3L V6)
2012-2013 S350 (3L V6)
2010-2017 Sprinter 2500 & 3500 (3L V6)
Intake valve springs, of which there are 12, has a part number of 668-053-00-20. Interchange is (all with 3L V6):
2007-2009 E320
2011-2013 E350
2007-2009 GL320
2010-2016 GL350
2007-2009 ML320
2010-2014 ML350
2007-2008 R320
2010-2012 R350
2012-2013 S350
2010-2017 Sprinter 2500 & 3500
Exhaust valve springs -- this one is weird. There doesn't appear to be a part number that cross-references to the 2012 GL350. More research needed. Might be an anomly in the catalog since this spring does interchange with every other OM642 in 2012.
Lower spring retainer part number is 668-053-01-25. 24 of those in the engine. Interchange is:
2014-2016 E250 (2.1L L4)
2011-2013 E350 (3L V6)
2007-2009 GL320 (3L V6)
2010-2016 GL350 (3L V6)
2016-2016 GLE300d (2.1L L4)
2013-2015 GLK250 (2.1L L4)
2015-2015 ML250 (2.1L L4)
2007-2009 ML320 (3L V6)
2010-2014 ML350 (3L V6)
2007-2009 R320 (3L V6)
2010-2012 R350 (3L V6)
2012-2013 S350 (3L V6)
2010-2017 Sprinter 2500 & 3500 (3L V6)
Valve keeper is part number 000-053-11-26. It appears to interchange with every engine Mercedes has built in the last 10 years.
Valve seal part number is 000-053-56-58. Also, very large interchange list.
Rocker arms are part number 642-050-01-33. 24 in the engine, interchange is (all 3L V6):
2007-2009 E320
2011-2013 E350
2007-2009 GL320
2010-2016 GL350
2007-2009 ML320
2010-2014 ML350
2007-2009 R320
2010-2012 R350
2012-2013 S350
2010-2017 Sprinter 2500 & 3500
Lifters are part number 642-050-00-80. Pretty much every Merc engine since 2006.
Left intake cam is 642-050-28-01. Interchange, all with the 3L V6, is:
2007-2009 E320
2011-2013 E350
2007-2009 GL320
2010-2016 GL350
2007-2009 ML320
2010-2014 ML350
2007-2009 R320
2010-2012 R350
2012-2013 S350
2010-2017 Sprinter 2500 & 3500
Left exhaust cam is 642-050-35-01. Interchange (all vehicles with the 3L V6):
2007-2009 E320
2011-2013 E350
2007-2009 GL320
2010-2015 GL350
2007-2009 ML320
2010-2014 ML350
2007-2009 R320
2010-2012 R350
2012-2013 S350
2010-2017 Sprinter 2500 & 3500
Here's where it gets a little interesting. Right intake cam is part number 642-050-36-01 and the much-shorter interchange list is:
2007-2009 E320
2007-2009 GL320
2010-2012 GL350
2007-2009 ML320
2010-2011 ML350
2007-2009 R320
2010-2012 R350
Right exhaust cam is 642-050-46-01 and it has the more typical interchange list:
2007-2009 E320
2011-2013 E350
2007-2009 GL320
2010-2015 GL350
2007-2009 ML320
2010-2014 ML350
2007-2009 R320
2010-2012 R350
2012-2013 S350
2010-2017 Sprinter 2500 & 3500
Okay, that is a big dump of stuff, but it tells me that if I re-use my right intake cam, I can drop in a head from a Sprinter from 2010-2017 which widens my search parameters.
What is odd is that in looking around for bottom-end bits, the crankshaft doesn't appear to exist.
The rods are part number 642-030-41-20 and interchange with:
2011-2013 E350
2011-2012 GL350
2011-2011 ML350
2011-2012 R350
2012-2013 S350
2010-2013 Sprinter 2500 & 3500
Also, there's no part number that I can easily find for the engine block itself. So as far as the bottom-end is concerned, I don't have a good idea for what I could use except for a 2012 GL350. My WAG is that the block is going to be pretty much the same across the OM642s, but I'm not sure if there would be a drop-in interchange with, say, a sprinter short block. I know for a fact that the swirl motor actuator (642-150-05-94) does not interchange with the Sprinter or any other of the OM642 engines other than a short year range on the ML and GL, so I'm sure there are other differences. But, if the block is truly trashed and I needed to start over, I could get a used engine for a somewhat reasonable (by Merc standards) sum and cobble it together with a combination of parts.
If you can drop the chain enough to spin the engine with the starter, and it makes the same sound, you know where it is.
I don't remember if you checked the bores, but any marks would show skirt damage or a broken wrist pin clip ( If the Germans have such a thing).
In reply to pjbgravely :
I haven't checked the bores at all yet, but that sounds like a good excuse to finally get one of those USB endoscopes...
Can you elaborate a little on dropping the chain to spin the engine? One thing that I have noticed is that f I cut off the fuel supply and let the starter run its course, there are no funny noises. I'm not sure of the diagnostic significance of that.
One little bit of good news, though: I got a voicemail from the dealer tonight and they have apparently found my other key. So, I got that going for me. They do, however, want to charge me about $160 to tell me that my engine is making a funny noise. My rough plan is to get this Chevy set up to tow and go over and load the thing on the trailer and bring it back to the workshop.
I assumed it has a timing chain, that will have to be out of the way to crank the engine with the starter. I don't know German engines but on the engines I worked on the water pump is mounted in front of the timing chain cover so it is some work to remove. If you can drop the chain so the main sprocket won't hit it it won't have to be removed.
The no noise when spinning with no fuel in my mind would would eliminate some mechanical problems.
Long time since an update because I've been focused on the Emergency Backup Truck and just not all that motivated... I've finally made arrangements to haul the car over to the local independent shop. My dad was talking to his friend's staff mechanic who said that the owner of this shop is top-notch and with a referral, they're now willing to work with me a bit. Very strange how this business works...
I'm not done with the dealer, though: They're charging me $160 to tell me that it's making a funny noise they can't identify, effectively reading back the service order to me. After a quick chat with the SA today, I left him with the homework of getting an explanation from his tech as to what in the bottom end would cause half-engine-speed ticking and which cylinder, when misfired, had a change in the noise that would identify where I should be looking. Also, I asked him to find out what would be common in these engines that would fail to cause that noise. I don't really expect very much in the way of useable information, but I'd like to at least know that I've caused them some aggravation for my $160.
Still pulling for you on this one. Fingers crossed.
Honestly, I just don't understand people sometimes.
After not hearing from the SA, I popped over to the dealership at lunch today to see about getting some answers. Apparently, they never hooked it up to STAR, it appears that they never actually moved it from the spot that the tow driver dropped it, but they did have some actual, useful guesses. I'll admit that they were similar to my own guesses, but some confirmation is good. Not really $160 good, but at this point I'll take what I can get. Their tech is absolutely positive that it is on the right side of the engine and he believes that it is either a broken valve or a piston. I don't really understand why they couldn't have led with that a month ago. It is also worth pointing out that I was initially told that it was 100% in the bottom end and not in the valvetrain. After studying the parts catalog for a little bit, I still don't see any valves in the bottom end of the engine....
Anyway, that part of the saga is over. Tonight, after dinner, I'm going to hook up the trailer and go drag it to the indy shop and see what they have to say. Part of me wants to just cancel the appointment and pull the head myself, but I'm really just so tired of effing around with it at this point, I'm in the mood to throw money at it to make it go away. Not very grassrooty of me, I know, but I will live with the shame.
Not very grassrooty of me, I know, but I will live with the shame.
Another way to look at it is that you are already at or past the level of the people you're turning to because you think they're better than you (at this). So, even though you're passing it off I think you deserve to upgrade your opinion of your own abilities which have proven to be at least equal if not better than the shop full of people who were scared to touch this.
I still vote for some sort of broken valve. Not sure how it's broken but it is. You've already done more than enough without having a dedicated work bay to put it in for the duration.
Don't worry -- I'll be able to sleep just fine at night and look myself in the mirror when I shave. :) And part of the reason for that is in the next chapter of the story...
Last night, the plan was to finish wiring in the brake controller, get the trailer, pick up the Merc, and drop it at the other shop. Once the truck was parked in the workshop, I went about crawling under the dash to find the stop light wire and in that process needed another tool or a light or something. As I passed around the front of the truck I slipped and nearly fell on a puddle that wasn't there before. Coolant. A quick minute of looking around led me to a view of coolant dribbling out of the top corner of the radiator.
My lovely wife drove up to get me and brought me back to the house. I found that for some reason Chrome really screws with Advance Auto's website and makes it give me the "we're doing a tuneup, sorry" message whenever I try to submit my cart. A side effect of that is that it also gives you a 20% off code, so I switched browsers and bought the new radiator for 20% off. Once I picked it up, though, I discovered that the Miata is not the answer to the question: "How do I get this carton with a new radiator in it back to my workshop". The good news, though, and why I think I get to keep my GRM cred is that I was able to go from "what's this puddle" to having the new radiator installed, filled, and bled in just under 3 hours including all the drive time, so I'll take that! 
Here's the best part though: I finally got over to the Mercedes dealer around 2315 or so, got everything lined up, and went to get the car up on the trailer. Damned thing is about a quarter inch too wide at the running boards to fit on the trailer. 
So, I'm having a flatbed go and pick it up for me now....
Ouch. Time for a new trailer? Or should we just burn the Mercedes to the ground?
Well, "in theory", the tow vehicle shouldn't need to be *on* the trailer!
About this burning thing, though....
You could just have the Merc towed to my house. I'll relieve your pain.
I'm going g to fall back on this card doesn't like you any more.
Heard back from the other shop today. They're saying that there is metal in the oil and they're on the bandwagon of installing a re-man engine from Merc to the tune of $20k. Does anyone ever actually do that?
They actually recommended against putting in a used motor as they can't find any that have fewer than 50k miles. While I can't remember exactly how he phrased it, it basically translated to "these engines are basically junk so getting a used on would be super iffy".
I feel a little bit better that I've got some confirmation, but now I've got to figure out what to do and how to do it. The damned thing is just too large to comfortably fit in the workshop right now, plus there's a really decent chance that we're going to be moving to a new facility in the near future. I suppose I can have it dropped here at home in the driveway, but I'm already bursting at the seams a bit. Fortunately, they aren't jumping up and down at me to get the thing out of their hair, so there's time to think about it.
As I see it, I've got four options:
1. Deliver it to a junkyard and take whatever they'll give me
2. Part it out myself
3. Sell it as a mechanic's special
4. Start pulling it apart to fix it
Options 1-3 are a bit limiting to me since I lack a ton of space to keep it while I part it and I've got a note on it with about $9,700 left to pay off. I'd sell it in a heartbeat if I could just break even on paying off the loan, but a $20k bill to repair a vehicle that's worth maybe $18k is a tough sell. Even a used engine with fairly high mileage is at least $6k.
All I'm really left with is to get the thing back to some place I can work on it and start tearing it down, I guess.
Sucks man.
Aww, man that is a major bummer. It sure was a comfy ride, but between this and Greenhouse’s experiences with the Sprinter, I don’t think I’d want to touch a late model Mercedes with a 10 foot pole.
Edit: I suspect parting it out will be the best way to get some vale back out of it, but that is a lot of time and space.
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