DILYSI Dave wrote:
Did a little searching and it looks like these are the Escort listings, all in FSP -
Escort, Escort GT, & Tracer (1991-96)
Escort, ZX2, & Tracer (1997-2002)
Escort, EXP, Lynx, & LN7 (1981-90)
There is no listing for the MX-3.
If you want, you could write the SEB and request that the MX-3 be classed in FSP on the same line as the one you are building. Cross-make's on the same line are rare, but not unheard of. Providing evidence to support your claim that they are the same car with different skin would help.
FWIW, $.02.
EDIT - just saw your response. If the MX3 unit is shared with any 91-96 Escort, EGT, or Tracer, then you're golden. Otherwise, you're up for a bit of welding or letter writing.
Well that's the problem.... The Escort/Tracer/Protege are identical (Protege also in FSP). MX3 (besides motors) are 98% identical. Not the same chassis, though. The Escort is a BG, the MX3 is an "EC."
Looks like letter time! Just having a hard time wrapping my brain around the fact that i'm allowed to use the drivetrain from an MX3.... but not a crossmember with an integral transmission mount. 
I appreciate your help Dave!
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:
Just having a hard time wrapping my brain around the fact that i'm allowed to use the drivetrain from an MX3.... but not a crossmember with an integral transmission mount.
It's part of SM's motto that anything under the hood is fine, but the chassis is sacred. The theory being that you could take an SM car, a bone stock car, and with nothing but hand tools move all of the parts from one to the other. It isn't exactly that way, but that's the theory. Where your crossmembers come into play is that on some cars the suspension mounts are on the tub, and on others they are on crossmembers that are bolted to the tub. In an effort to attain parity, anything that contains a suspension mount is considered part of the chassis, and thus can't be touched.
Every once in a while that results in a paradox where something has to be completed with a welder that could be otherwise be completed with hand tools, but isn't legal doing it that way. The rules aren't perfect, but the above is the reason they are the way they are.
Ah ok... that makes a bit more sense to me now. 
(In a does, but doesn't sort of way.)
Dilemma time:
My KLZE is pretty much just a shortblock. Luckily, i'll be able to grab most of what i need off the K8 from the MX3.
But, i for sure need a ZE intake manifold/tb, injectors, and a set of headers. Everything else i can salvage from the K8.
I found two intake manifolds.
1) KLZE "straight neck" w/ no EGR, has throttle body, fuel rails, injectors, sensors, blah blah blah - $125
2) KLZE "straight neck" w/ no EGR, has throttle body, nothing else to the best of my knowledge (working on clarification). BUT, it's port matched, polished, and has phenolic spacers (which i'm not sure are anything but snake out) - $125
I'm pretty sure i can use the K8 fuel rails, and then just grab KL"DE" injectors from any V6 probe in the junkyard if i go with option 2, which i'm leaning towards, because any little bit of power helps.
Am i stupid?
Also: Found another matching Corksport fart can. Should i run duals? 
Alright, just because i can't stop tinkering and my brain always seems to run at 120%, i'm looking at next season.
Looking at Dave's car in particular, and given the fact that i'm at an inherent suspension disadvantage due to design... i'm going to need more power.
Here are my options:
1) Supercharge the stock KLZE.
Pros: Cheaper. Easier. Tons 'o torque.
Cons: More weight. Won't increase rev limit (may or may not be a problem). Maybe too much torque? No use in power if it comes on all at once and overwhelms tires coming out of a tight corner.
2) N/A build KLZE
Pros: Lighter. Potentially higher rev limit = higher 2nd gear top speed. Potentially better power delivery for coming out of corners
Cons: Expensive. Probably harder to tune. Maybe LACKING in torque for exiting corners.
Peanut gallery chime in? I'm not looking for max power here... Either build would end up with 240-250whp. Capable of more, but i doubt i'd need it. I just know that the 190-200whp that the current iteration would give me wouldn't be competitive. (Dave, aren't you making 230whp or something with a huge curve?)
Mainly fun discussion at this point... won't start buying until fall likely. (Though i may or may not already have an M62.)
PS: Got the ported/polished intake manifold with an oversized throttle body, so that question has been "answered."
http://www.scca.com/documents/Fastrack/11/11-fastrack-may-solo.pdf
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:
DILYSI Dave wrote:
http://www.scca.com/documents/Fastrack/11/11-fastrack-may-solo.pdf
HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!!! 
STREET MODIFIED
- Per the SMAC, the following rule change proposal is submitted for member comment:
- Add new subsection 16.1.T as follows:
“T. Alternate subframes are allowed to facilitate motor mounting only. Suspension pickup points on the subframe
must retain stock geometry. Weight of the subframe must be equal or greater than the stock unit.”
In conjunction with the above, remove 16.1.P line which currently reads: “These allowances do not permit extensive
modifications to a sub-frame or cross member to lower an engine which would otherwise not fit in the engine
compartment.” (3786)
Don't forget to write in with feedback. It's only a proposal right now, and only becomes a rule for 2012 with sufficient positive feedback.
DILYSI Dave wrote:
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:
DILYSI Dave wrote:
http://www.scca.com/documents/Fastrack/11/11-fastrack-may-solo.pdf
HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!!!
STREET MODIFIED
- Per the SMAC, the following rule change proposal is submitted for member comment:
- Add new subsection 16.1.T as follows:
“T. Alternate subframes are allowed to facilitate motor mounting only. Suspension pickup points on the subframe
must retain stock geometry. Weight of the subframe must be equal or greater than the stock unit.”
In conjunction with the above, remove 16.1.P line which currently reads: “These allowances do not permit extensive
modifications to a sub-frame or cross member to lower an engine which would otherwise not fit in the engine
compartment.” (3786)
Don't forget to write in with feedback. It's only a proposal right now, and only becomes a rule for 2012 with sufficient positive feedback.
Will do! I'll take care of that today. Thanks for the heads up!
Now.... how much power are you making again? Can i bug you to weigh in on my Supercharge vs. n/a debate raging in my head?
My setup - 215HP / 188 ft-lbs, with good torque down low.
As for which to choose, I'd let weight be your guide. I knew that I'd have a tough time getting much below 1950# anyway, so whether I was running with a minimum weight configuration of 1925# (1.6 boosted) or 1750# (1.6 N/A) or somewhere in between, that I'd never really weigh much less than 1950#. So for me, the turblow wasn't a weight penalty, and I liked the power potential better.
I think i'm going to struggle to get under 2100lbs. The setup that's going in the car now should make just about 200whp and 175-180wtq.
Basic supercharger setup on stock motor would yield ~250whp and ~230wtq on about 5psi, but add weight.
N/A, i could probably hit those same numbers, weigh a little less, but not have quite as big of a powerband.
More stuffs and things have arrived.
Today's haul: Harness bar, LCAs, and 9lb Fidanza Flywheel.
I may have missed it, but when does the assembly start?!
Dare I ask what he charges for those control arms? There is a LOT of work that goes into those.
Those wheels = hotness. I plan on buying a set of flat black ones for the toy eventually.
Nitroracer wrote:
I may have missed it, but when does the assembly start?!
Soon. I'm aiming to have this thing running, driving, aligned, and corner-weighted by the end of May.
I've still got a list of stuff to order/source:
1) Headers
2) Valve cover gaskets
3) Wideband/oil pressure/water temp gauges
4) MFactory LSD
5) KL31 ecu (sourced, have to pay)
6) Get the ECU chipped
7) Clutch
8) Tires
9) Figure out a radiator setup. Probably going with a Koyo Civic half-width
10) Dakota Digital Tach adapter
I still have parts on the way:
1) Ported and polished intake manifold w/ 65mm throttle body
2) My Koni/Ground Control/Cusco setup should finally be here this week.
DILYSI Dave wrote:
Dare I ask what he charges for those control arms? There is a LOT of work that goes into those.
Jim is a cool dude and i highly doubt he makes any real profit off of these.
The front LCAs ran me $400, and i'll have to figure out some custom endlink setup, probably using rodends again. Another $40 for the rodends i suppose, and i'll hack up some of my 3 sets of delrin/ES endlinks i've got laying around for bushings.
Here's a breakdown of everything Jim made for me:
Front LCAs: $400
Rear control arms w/ same style swaybar tabs: $400
Harness bar: $100
Rear tie brace: $75
Front 4-point tie brace: $240
He'll also be modifying a set of 3rd gen Escort tubular rear trailing arms for me, adding rod ends to match the rest of my stuff because i'm OCD like that. That'll run me $200.
This build ended up going WAY farther than i ever imagined it would have, and as such, cost a LOT more than initially planned, but due to Jim's hookups, and Erik's (ST_ZX2 on here) hookups, i've gotten off with far less spent than could have been. I've hit other deals along the way. (That motor ran me $500, it's got less than 20k miles on a complete rebuild.)
If i had started with a Protege or a 323, i honestly doubt i would have gotten Jim's stuff, since those cars would have qualified for the Mazdaspeed parts program. This car.... doesn't. So this wasn't as much of a difference vs. replacing with new stock stuff.
Here's a link to Jim's "Escort Catalog." The LCAs aren't on there yet, the first GB to get the ball rolling isn't complete yet.
http://www.piercemotorsport.com/servlet/Categories?category=91-96+Ford+Escort
Twin_Cam wrote:
Those wheels = hotness. I plan on buying a set of flat black ones for the toy eventually.
Thank you sir! I got them from ST_ZX2.
They aren't the Enkeis if that's what you're thinking... They're 15x7 Drag DR21s. Temporary setup for now, they were offered to me at a price i couldn't turn down. They'll probably get relegated to street duty after this season, and i'll probably end up going with Kodiak when i get serious about SMF. Those won't hold enough rubber.
Doesnt the Mazdaspeed Motorsports Program extend to vehicles powered by a Mazda engine?
monsterbronco wrote:
Doesnt the Mazdaspeed Motorsports Program extend to vehicles powered by a Mazda engine?
Not to the best of my knowledge. Last i heard, Probes weren't eligible either.
Might be worth looking further into. Though probably not in my case anymore.
[EDIT]
Looked into it.
Mazdaspeed Site said:
You need to race a Mazda or Mazda powered vehicle (except for Ford branded vehicles) and be able to provide two official race results per year to qualify. You may also join our Team Support Program if your are in the process of building a race car. See our rules under the Membership link in the INFO button at the top of this page for further details.
Well the fact that you are putting a motor from a mazda into a ford might enable you to qualify. I think they are more referring to ford vehicles that came factory with a mazda motor.
Give them a call, explain the car. they are pretty friendly guys.
monsterbronco wrote:
Well the fact that you are putting a motor from a mazda into a ford might enable you to qualify. I think they are more referring to ford vehicles that came factory with a mazda motor.
Give them a call, explain the car. they are pretty friendly guys.
Maybe, i'll give it a shot next week maybe. Don't know how many parts will be left that i can actually get through them, but you never know.
Worth mentioning that the car had a Mazda motor in it from the factory. 
Anyways, the guy that's doing my chip got back in touch with me with more info. This is some serious stuff. 
stoker100 said:
i can provide instructions on how to install, thats no problem (if you can remove an IC and solder you will be fine). i think 8000rpm should be fine for your situation. below is what i send to everyone:
i modify ODBI only (93-95) EPROM's to change the fuel, timing, VRIS, rev limiter etc to customer specifications. a ZE EPROM using a DE VAF starts from $50US and goes up from there depending on the complexity and number of changes required. to date ive done about 60 EPROMs for members on here PT.com and MX3.com everyone so far has been pleased with the results. everyone of my EPROMs are built from scratch as all customers have different year cars with different requirements, i don't use a generic template, always test EPROMs on my own ZE probe and i do the tuning personally.
im also able to create dual EPROM maps meaning you can have a switch to change the rev limiter, or fuel/timing map or VRIS at a flick of a switch, these start from $100US. If you have a dyno printout with a/f ratios i can also tune fuel based off the graph.
ignoring the VRIS changes to suit a ZE engine my EPROMs generally make about 5-10whp depending on mods, low rpm is unchanged for excellent drivability/idle while mid-high rpm is modified for maximum power. most of the improvement is made from taking out fuel up top as the KL series run overly rich, also increasing ignition timing (dependent on what fuel you intend to use).
all EPROMs are tested on my car before they go out the door, because my work is "copyable" i dont provide refunds but i do provide a satisfaction guarantee so if your not happy with the tune i can send you another EPROM free of charge (pending the return of the original).
i can also fit the EPROM to your ECU if required, this is a fixed $50US charge inc shipping (to remove the EPROM, fit a socket, add new EPROM and test run). when you purchase an EPROM from me it comes with a socket so if you ever need to remove it again it will only take a few min (and no further desoldering would be required). if you cant go without your ECU then you can either have a local TV repair shop fit the EPROM or i can send you a replacement ECU to swap over while i modify yours, if you require me to send you an ECU theres a $200US core charge (refunded when the original is returned).
payment is through paypal only for security reasons. let me know if you have any questions.
this is what i need to know before i start:
year: (94')
transmission: (e.g. automatic/manual)
ECU#: (e.g. kl07)
performance mods: (e.g. CAI, PnP, 2.5" catback etc)
what VAF:
and obviously the rev limiter, VRIS points and any other specifics including a dyno with A/F ratios where possible. usually takes less then a week for me to make and burn the EPROM, then an additional day to test.
let me know if you have any further questions.
Are you going to use a vane airflow meter on this thing?
pres589 wrote:
Are you going to use a vane airflow meter on this thing?
I don't know why i keep missing posts in this thread...
But for now, yes. A true PNP MS system was just released for this car, and i will be making use of it after this season. From what i understand, the "JE50" VAF isn't much of a restriction to a bolt-ons KLZE.
In other news, i ordered my headers this morning at 10am. They shipped at 1:40pm. Really, they shipped, dropped off and on a truck already. Damn!
Getting close:
Ordered/awaiting arrival:
1) Headers
2) port/polished intake manifold
3) injectors
4) KL31 ECU
Need to source:
1) Valve cover gaskets
2) Clutch
3) Mfactory LSD
4) Tires
5) Wideband/oil pressure/water temp
6) Belts (motor)
7) radiator/hoses
8) AWR mounts
JDM y0 MX6 ECU
Headers, KLDE injectors, PS Delete belt. Not entirely happy with the Ebay headers. (DUH!) Welds look fine, and they're solid enough, but the insides right past the flanges don't line up too well, probably not helping flow. Either way, they're better than stock, and less than half the weight, so i'll live with them for now. For $140 shipped, i'm not unhappy.
