2 months at an import repair garage

Talk to my poor mechanic about new model mercedes. Last time I had a tune up and radiator flush he was working on a newer model ML doing a door lock and said he doesn't know how mercedes is staying in business. Not to mention he said on a newer model e-class there are 3 computer, each cost 800$ and you have to guess which one in the problem. Basically new cars are sorting the shops into those that work on only funky old cars and those that work on only new cars. A shop with the latest gizmos and gadgets doesn't want to look under the hood and see a tangle of vacuum lines, they want to hook up the OBD scanner and go at it.

benzbaron wrote: Talk to my poor mechanic about new model mercedes. Last time I had a tune up and radiator flush he was working on a newer model ML doing a door lock and said he doesn't know how mercedes is staying in business. Not to mention he said on a newer model e-class there are 3 computer, each cost 800$ and you have to guess which one in the problem

3 is nothing. Counting all the outstations and controllers most high end cars have upwards of 30. As for guessing which one is bad, he needs to go back to school. With proper diagnostic skills there should be no guesswork involved. Actually the problem with "new car shops" isn't that the just want to plug in a scanner and get told what to do, its THATS ALL THEY KNOW HOW TO DO! Modern cars need MORE detective work to fix right the first time. Throwing a sensor or ECU at a problem is too expensive to do anymore and neglects the hundreds of miles of wiring that usually contains the fault anyway.

The problem isn't the cars, its the guys too stupid or lazy to learn how to fix them correctly.

My dad had his MB in the shop the other day for a warning light on the convertible top. The computer for it is bad. Cost to replace....$4600.00. There is something like 25 motors that make the top go up and down. Makes me glad I drive a Ford and play with an old Mazda. Of course working on an E150 is no fun either.

That's the real bummer- these cars I think are going to be great bargains ten years from now are going to be nightmares. How do you fix and SMG/DSG? Great transmissions, yes. How do you fix an active differential?

The electronics are making the cars somewhat more reliable, but when they fail it's going to be horrendously expensive to repair.

Datsun1500 wrote:

curtis73 wrote: Like the VW oil temp sensor that uses a 23mm socket. Nobody makes a 23mm socket. It doesn't exist. Fortunately 15/16" is close enough to work.

That's strange, when I needed one last year Sears had them on the shelf...

Yup, me too.

Brust wrote: The electronics are making the cars somewhat more reliable, but when they fail it's going to be horrendously expensive to repair.

People will adapt. A few years ago a DYI EFI system was thought to be impossible and now we have plug and play systems left and right. As long as someone can crack the code-and they will-the rest is just wires and chips you can get down at the Radio Shack. There are already fixes on integrated circuit boards for older luxury cars. There are already "carputers" running Windows and Linux software and the hardware exists to interface them with relays and drivers. Some creative programing and you can make your car's systems do whatever you want(in theory).

Wanna restore todays cars in 30 years? Don't take autobody and mechanics courses. Take some electrical engineering courses or electronic repair. THAT is where the money will be....and you get to stay clean to boot!

ddavidv wrote: Aren't all the Intrepids dead from tranny failures by now?

The ones that aren't are dead from oil sludge and/or timing chain failures. The 2.7s are an expensive used engine for a reason - most of them are bad.

I have seen many a 2.7 barfed due to a bad water pump. Really stupid design when you look at it from the 'longevity' stand point. I believe I know why they did it that way, it shortens the engine package by ~3-5" (essential in a FWD app) but it's still a stupid design.

I see some stupid stuff in imports (like the Mercedes that 'wick' transmission fluid into the TCM, now THAT is dumb) but generally overseas stuff makes more sense from a repair and longevity standpoint.

Talking about stupid............I have posted this one before but my son's old Probe GT with the V6 mounted transversely had it's water pump go bad. Of course it's located about 1/8" from the fender well so no way to get a wrench in there. We had to take the wheel off, take off the fender lining, undo the motor mount and jack up the motor just to gain access to the pump and still it was difficult to get to. Of course being an older car, everything was corroded and difficult to get apart. Took us all day. To this day it remains the single most frustrating mechanical experience I have ever had.

Ford Contour with the 2.5L V6. That thing was packed in there! Lucky for me I only had to change an alterator once.

1984 Volvo 760GLE V6 need the A/C to be drained to remove the valvecover on one side.

My buddy has a V12 Jag. It looks like they poured parts under the hood and troweled it flat!

Shawn

Did a water pump on an 87 Town Car. It took 5 hours. Every accessory on the engine was bolted on top of it. Stupid! Did one on my wife's Venture, it took less than an hour. I also had to do the lower intake manifold gaskets on the Venture. 10 hours to change, the only good part is it took about 4 wrenches. The bad part, if I keep the car too long I'll have to do it again. What a PPD.(pis poor design)

A friend of mine just quit wrenching at a Ford dealer because of the newer Power Stroke Diesel. He said that to pull the turbo charger, you have to lift the entire cab off the truck! Other wise the turbo hits the firewall before the turbo clears the mounting studs.

We had an '86 Accord, great little car- except for the ridiculously difficult to replace alternator. I had to loosen all the engine mounts, shove the engine forward and hold it with a 2x4 and take the alternator out from the bottom. Then the replacement went tits up ~2 weeks later. Dammit. No more cheapie rebuilts for me.

Then there was the 1969 Mustang 302 water pump- with dealer add A/C. I have never seen so damn many spacers and brackets and braces and just assorted stuff in my LIFE. No kidding, it was a full day to swap. Stupid, stupid STUPID design.

Junkyard_Dog wrote: Food for thought: when engineering a hot rod from scratch remember that eventually somethings going to fail and need to be replaced. A few years on the next mechanic might be cursing YOU for putting it together the way you did!

I know I won't get rich. I have enough talent to get me as far as I want, but all I need is food in the cupboard, beer in the fridge, and enough money to do the next project. Its in my blood and I'd do it even if I were paralyzed.

But... I can honestly say that there will never be a mechanic that curses my engineering. Every single step, I fabricate the right part. Every blind hole in the frame gets a nut tig welded behind it. Every body fastener is stainless steel. The wiring harnesses are custom built from scratch, each wire labeled every 5", and all of them attached to their components with a DIN connector. Even right down to replacing the block drain plugs with 1/4 turn brass and stainless ball valves, and copper tubing that directs it to one easy, clean drain point. Same goes for transmission and oil drains. I even have fabricated conical funnel catches under oil filters so that you don't make a mess when the filter comes off. If its not in an easy place to maintain, I move it. If its an engine with a timing belt or a poor maintenance issue, I don't use it. I've taken to using Cadillac 500s in many of my projects; not only because they're an incredible foundation, but because they incorporate things like a dry intake manifold and an externally-mounted oil pump. Trepanier's rides might look a little more artistic, but try replacing a cam on one of his rad rides, or for that matter just getting a jack under it for routine maintenance. I build drivable art. No trailer queens.

If there is one thing I pride myself on, its engineering ingenuity... which is one of the reasons I get so frustrated with these new-fangled cars that constantly fail and are impossible to fix without skinning five knuckles and taking multiple hours.

Easy to work on? I'll say Subarus. Even if you have to do the Evil Head Gaskets yanking the engine isn't hard. I describe them as an air cooled VW engine with water passages going backwards without all the silly shrouding.

+1 on Subies. I've had a '93 Impreza wagon in addition to my current '98 sedan. The wagon needed a clutch when I bought it, and it was by far the easiest clutch I've ever changed. You don't even need to drop the tranny, just put the car on jack stands, remove the driveshaft, unbolt the tranny and secure it by looping a strong rope (paracord is great for this) around a 2x4 and through one or two of the bolt holes in the top of the tranny. Move it back a bit and with the tranny unbolted the engine tilts forward enough for you to get the clutch out.

I could remove then entire exhaust on the car in less than 10 minutes, including the time it took to jack it up and remove the heat shield.

curtis73 wrote:

curtis wrote: And pay attention cause you will like this one. If you pull the Bolt (1) from the rear tranny mount bracket you can stick a prybar in there or anywhere for that matter and tilt the engine more then enough back to pull the CONTROL ARM BOLT. Ta da. Try it out youll thank me.

Ooohh... smart. Although is that any quicker than just removing the compressor?

OF COURSE. Just try it. Then thank me like i said.

This thread makes me so glad to own Toyotas. The worst I have had to do was pull the intake manifold on a 1uzfe to do the starter. And most of those cars y'all are biatching about make working on my Epsrit seem easy.

Dr. Hess wrote: This thread makes me so glad to own Toyotas. The worst I have had to do was pull the intake manifold on a 1uzfe to do the starter. And most of those cars y'all are biatching about make working on my Epsrit seem easy.

Will you come over and do the head gasket on my 87 Toyota pickup with the 22RE? I just keep putting it off.....

Dr. Hess wrote: This thread makes me so glad to own Toyotas. The worst I have had to do was pull the intake manifold on a 1uzfe to do the starter. And most of those cars y'all are biatching about make working on my Epsrit seem easy.

Toyota doesn't seem to do well with intake manifolds. The intake manifold on a 5sfe is one of the more ignorant things i've seen in recent memory....

Bring it on over to da house, Cotton. I've done 2-3 of them. That's a 2 day easy, no hurry job. One to pull it off, one to clean it and put it together. I always retorque the head bolts on those after about 10 heat cycles. You'd be surprised at what you get. And Felpro head gaskets are good and available anywhere. Guy I know ran like 350 HP on those with a turbo. He moved to the PRC and had to go ODBCII, so he pulled that motor and put a 1uzfe in it's place. Bad little Celi.

Dr. Hess wrote: Bring it on over to da house, Cotton. I've done 2-3 of them. That's a 2 day easy, no hurry job. One to pull it off, one to clean it and put it together. I always retorque the head bolts on those after about 10 heat cycles. You'd be surprised at what you get. And Felpro head gaskets are good and available anywhere. Guy I know ran like 350 HP on those with a turbo. He moved to the PRC and had to go ODBCII, so he pulled that motor and put a 1uzfe in it's place. Bad little Celi.

Good to know. This will be my first one, so I may have some questions for you when I tear into it if you don't mind. At first I was tempted to do an SBC conversion, but I've decided to keep the 22RE.

curtis73 wrote: But... I can honestly say that there will never be a mechanic that curses my engineering. Every single step, I fabricate the right part. Every blind hole in the frame gets a nut tig welded behind it. Every body fastener is stainless steel. The wiring harnesses are custom built from scratch, each wire labeled every 5", and all of them attached to their components with a DIN connector. Even right down to replacing the block drain plugs with 1/4 turn brass and stainless ball valves, and copper tubing that directs it to one easy, clean drain point. Same goes for transmission and oil drains. I even have fabricated conical funnel catches under oil filters so that you don't make a mess when the filter comes off. If its not in an easy place to maintain, I move it. If its an engine with a timing belt or a poor maintenance issue, I don't use it. I've taken to using Cadillac 500s in many of my projects; not only because they're an incredible foundation, but because they incorporate things like a dry intake manifold and an externally-mounted oil pump. Trepanier's rides might look a little more artistic, but try replacing a cam on one of his rad rides, or for that matter just getting a jack under it for routine maintenance. I build drivable art. No trailer queens. If there is one thing I pride myself on, its engineering ingenuity... which is one of the reasons I get so frustrated with these new-fangled cars that constantly fail and are impossible to fix without skinning five knuckles and taking multiple hours.

A mechanic won't curse your work? I've worked/befriended/been-family-with enough mechanics to know they'll find something to bitch about, nothing is perfect. Also, while it might look pretty and/or seem easy to work with now, welding nuts and using stainless fasteners isn't really a good thing from an engineering standpoint. For example, when choosing stainless fasteners, many think that stainless won't rust. Wrong. Galvanic corrosion is something that needs to be considered if you're thinking long term used-in-all-elements machines, and with the tendency of stainless to gall you can have a compounding problem:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_series

TIG welding nuts? How do you suspect that heat treatment changes the nut? Sure, for cosmetic stuff it may not be an issue, but it's not really good practice on a structural part. You'll notice that most nut plates used in OEM applications don't weld the nut to the plate (it's usually disformed in one way or another to hold the two together). This is not only cheaper for mass production stuff, but also has less affect on the threads, material properties, coatings, etc.

I, too, try to make stuff serviceable, having done enough wrenching to know it's nice...but know that sometimes I have to compromise. It takes 30 minutes for me to pull the engine in my project car. If I spend another 15 hours reworking some stuff, I could get it down to 5 minutes. Sure, that's a significant time savings...but it's still a waste of my time. Same goes for car companies...sure, they could spend another 20% engineering time and money to make things more serviceable, but only if that means they'll save that much (or more) money down the road when warranty costs come through. It's an unfortunate reality to companies that exist to make a profit. If sales volumes reflected serviceability, you'd see a hell of a lot less Ford vans out in the world.

Bryce

spitfirebill wrote:

Datsun1500 wrote:

curtis73 wrote: Like the VW oil temp sensor that uses a 23mm socket. Nobody makes a 23mm socket. It doesn't exist. Fortunately 15/16" is close enough to work.

That's strange, when I needed one last year Sears had them on the shelf...

Yup, me too.

I am assuming he means a 23mm sensor socket. You know, the deep well ones with the slot cut out of the side so you can slip the wire pigtail through it. And I am also guessing that this particular sensor is located such that you can only turn a wrench 3 degrees, if you can even get one on it.

Josh wrote:

spitfirebill wrote:

Datsun1500 wrote:

curtis73 wrote: Like the VW oil temp sensor that uses a 23mm socket. Nobody makes a 23mm socket. It doesn't exist. Fortunately 15/16" is close enough to work.

That's strange, when I needed one last year Sears had them on the shelf...

Yup, me too.

I am assuming he means a 23mm sensor socket. You know, the deep well ones with the slot cut out of the side so you can slip the wire pigtail through it. And I am also guessing that this particular sensor is located such that you can only turn a wrench 3 degrees, if you can even get one on it.

Yeah. I had to use two universals to get a socket to it.

Cotton, the 22R HG job isn't too bad, as that goes. Just be sure to replace the timing chain rails with metal ones when you do it.