2013 GRM Challenge Pro Drivers

MrJoshua wrote: My car has a 3.5 hp motor. Is that fruit low enough for you?

Point taken... but I predict that you are going to clean up when it comes to style points!

I propose a maximum of 2-3 runs for a pro-driver per car. No need to kill those guys. The remaining runs could be done by team members.

Lof8 wrote: I propose a maximum of 2-3 runs for a pro-driver per car. No need to kill those guys. The remaining runs could be done by team members.

Brilliant Idea!

As one who is conceptually opposed to scope creep in the rule set, perhaps we can simply come to a gentleman's agreement on this idea?

I cannot foresee all sides to this issue so I would love to hear some opinions on this.

Last year the cars got 5 runs. You were allowed 3 runs with a pro driver, the other two were up to you. I like this format.

OK, here's some background info on me. (I recently changed from an obscure GRM nickname to one more readily recognized.) I've done car tests, tire tests, and articles for GRM since the beginning (Auto-X).
At the inaugural $1500 Challenge, I was the only "pro" driver, brought on because the Challenge was intended as a car building (and scrounging) exercise, and some entrants were not really autocrossers but wanted to see what potential their cars had on the autocross course. I actually took FTD at that first Challenge autocross, driving Tim Suddard's Mustang SVO. (As I recall, Tim arranged for it to start raining right after I made a solid run in his car,but, hey, it still counts!) I've been back all the other years except one, although in 2006 I was coming off back surgery and did not drive. I have driven tons of cars at the Challenge over the years, improving scores for lots of participants, and winning the autocross for them a few times. My specialty seems to be getting the most out of, let's say, less-than-perfect cars, but I have nothing against well-developed, good handling cars.

Aside from the Challenge, I have raced dirt track stock cars, SCCA Production cars (Sprite, Midget) and IMSA Firehawk a little bit, but autocross is my favorite. I have won ten Porsche Parade autocrosses (944 S2, 996 Carrera, Boxster S), four SCCA Solo 2 national championships, a Solo I national championship, four Pro Solo championships, 30 consecutive Florida state autocross championships, and 20 Nationals trophies. ("No brag, just fact.") My Nationals trophies were earned in an MG Midget, Mustangs, Rabbit, Jettas, Civic Si, MX6s, MR2, Neons, Corvette Z06, and Boxster S. And then there was the Chevy Rev-it-Up I won in a new Corvette. My first mini-stock racer was an original Mini, and my most recent Nationals drive (2011) was in a new Mini.

Trivia Footnotes: I was the first guy to win a Pro Solo in a Mustang V-8 (1985) and the first guy to win an SCCA national title in a four-door car (Jetta GLI, 1988). At my first Nationals event in 1983, I led after Day One, driving my wife's MG Midget on Vredestein tires, then Randy Pobst (Rabbit) got by me the second day to win his first national title. We still have that Midget but she doesn't get out these days. Randy drives a Volvo now. I look forward to the GRM $$ Challenge every year because it is really what Grassroots Motorsports is all about!

Danny

Thanks Tim, I'd love to see the 6 runs. With roughly 35 cars running, there should be tons of time.

2-3 runs only for the pro driver is crazy. Most of the time they have never sat in the car before, so asking them to put it down in 2-3 runs is just nonsense. We are here to see what the cars can do, not to see how lucky we can get.

Swank Force One wrote: Last year the cars got 5 runs. You were allowed 3 runs with a pro driver, the other two were up to you. I like this format.

Me too.

Hey all, I'll be one of the pro drivers this year as well. Many of you know me from my time on staff with GRM, and in the better part of a decade with the magazine I spent plenty of time driving all kinds of machines in all kinds of environments, from autocross and hillclimbs to time trials and road racing.

I've had my share of wheel time at the Challenges, so I'm plenty versed in the eccentricities of low-buck creations. Looking forward to seeing what everyone comes up with this year!

There's not that many pro drivers, though.... Asking 5-6 dudes to each take 50 runs in some extremely "wooly" unsorted beasts in one day is a bit of a tall order. I flat out couldn't make 50 runs in my car in one day. I'd be physically unable to.

And because they're pros, they "ramp up" a lot faster than us mere mortals. Last year, i took 2 runs, then handed off to Steve. Steve bettered my best of those two runs on his first run by a small-ish margin, then was on track for a pretty damn fast run when he took out the timing box with my car.

3 runs is enough for the pros to get 90-95% of the car's potential, i think.

As one of the "pro" drivers, I'll be happy to make as many runs as you want, as long as no one else is waiting on us. I do like for the owner/builder to make the first run, to sample the fuits of their labor and make sure nothing important falls off. Danny

spin_out wrote: ... 2-3 runs only for the pro driver is crazy. Most of the time they have never sat in the car before, so asking them to put it down in 2-3 runs is just nonsense. ...

Excellent point!

I will share one thing that I believe help me out at the last time I attended.

I was able to engage one of the Pro Drivers in the parking lot the night before purely by coincidence but we were able to spend a good hour talking about my car and the effect of the modifications I had made. Going over the issues, both good and bad, and being able to speak the same language worked very well in helping him wrap his head around the challenge in front of him.

The feeling I get is that all of the "hired guns" are hugely invested in putting forth their best effort and feel both the weight and honor of being blindly handed the keys to our beloved babies.

Upon coming to a brief stop after his run he (I think his name may have been Allen?) almost giggled, "I can do more! Let me take her back around!" I just pointed to the starting gate and he knocked almost another second off.

I have no clear position on this point so I will stop rambling with only this advice: talk and listen to all of those who are there to help and perhaps the best path is to make the decision that you feel is best for you individually.

Danny Shields wrote: ... I do like for the owner/builder to make the first run, to sample the fuits of their labor and make sure nothing important falls off. Danny

Great feedback!

I am glad that this issue is gaining traction and input from all sides so that we can have a comprehensive and informative discussion.

So has anyone won any titles in a mostly stock e30?

Swank Force One wrote: .... some extremely "wooly" unsorted beasts ...

Speak for yourself! Not everyone brings something as crazy and unrefined as you!

Swank Force One wrote: And because they're pros, they "ramp up" a lot faster than us mere mortals....

This is probably very true and quite insightful... perhaps others can share their thoughts on this point?

In reply to Swank Force One: I've called and left a message for Spool to call me. I have questions.

Debbie Brozyna wrote: In reply to Swank Force One: I've called and left a message for Spool to call me. I have questions.

Ah ok. If it's about the car, may as well ask me. He hasn't seen it yet.

I agree that this event is geared more as a test of "what you can build for $2k". However, my personal view of the event is a sort of low-budget automotive decathlon. I find some pride in bolting together a heap and piloting it to a good time myself.

If you're relying on the skills of others to bring your car up in the ranks, IMO, you're a Bob Costas - physical disabilities being exempt. /trash talk

Good to see Scott chime in. Scott drove our Mustang a few years back (The one in my avatar), and it was very fun to watch him drive it. If I remember correctly he was smiling when he returned from his runs. That's much better than swearing, which was a possibility.
Steve drove my Fiero the first year I attended. When he crossed the finish I told him it was worth building the car just to watch him drive it.

Hi Guys,

I wanted to drop in here and confirm that I will be at the Challenge again this year. To follow up on Danny's post above a brief review of my resume:

Much like Danny, I have done a little of everything; autocrossing, road racing, rallycross, motorcycles (motocross, enduro, road racing) but my love is autocrossing. I have nearly 30 years experience and in my 25 trips to the SCCA National Championships I have failed to trophy only twice. Once when the car broke (on only my second trip to Nationals) and once when I took a road race car just for fun (I didn't have an autox car that year). I have earned Six National Championships and the coveted "Rookie of the Year" title and finished 2nd nine times.

For my day job, I work in the racing industry as the Director of Sales & Marketing for Trivinici Systems, the maker of the Race-Keeper video data logger (among other things). Before this gig, I spent some time working for a few race teams in NASCAR, World Challenge and Grand Am, as a setup engineer and crew member.

I came to the GRM Challenge when I was recruited by Mongrel Motorsports to drive their awesome V8 Miata in '03 which won the overall that year. At that event Per asked me to drive a few other cars which I did and I have been hooked ever since. I have only missed a few since when my work schedule intervened. I have a few GRM Autocross FTDs to my credit. Never really counted them up.

I can drive most anything but as you can imagine, each of us pro drivers tend to have our specialties. I won all six of my National Championships in mid engined cars (because that's what I took to nationals) but have a great deal of experience in high HP rear wheel drive, turbo cars and fwd cars. The last two Nationals I drove a Super Street Modified MR2 Turbo (full aero and big HP).

As Danny also noted, take the first run yourself. Have some fun and shake the car down for us. I do like to talk with teams the night before to learn about the cars. That does help with what to expect when I get in the first time.

Hope this helps. If you have any questions, post them up.

-Steve

tb wrote: I will share one thing that I believe help me out at the last time I attended. I was able to engage one of the Pro Drivers in the parking lot the night before purely by coincidence but we were able to spend a good hour talking about my car and the effect of the modifications I had made. Going over the issues, both good and bad, and being able to speak the same language worked very well in helping him wrap his head around the challenge in front of him. The feeling I get is that all of the "hired guns" are hugely invested in putting forth their best effort and feel both the weight and honor of being blindly handed the keys to our beloved babies.

Thank you for that. Yes, I know all of us "Pros" very much want to produce the best possible results for the car owner(s). I consider it a privilege to be invited to do this event and an honor to have one of the entrants to ask me to drive their car. I absolutely will get everything I can out of it. If I think I can get more out of another run, i will let you know. If I think I am topped out, I will tell you that too. I will also recommend changes if I think there is something that can help and can be done before the next run.

As noted, I work in the racing industry and have been to virtually every major race in North America in a professional capacity. I work with Professional Racing Drivers on a day to day basis reviewing video/data and coaching them. I have thousands of hours in the cockpit of a racecar. It is my opinion that the GRM Challenge is one of the most demanding driving challenges in motorsports. Why? Because every few minutes, the driver gets into a COMPLETELY different car, with a COMPLETELY different performance envelope and, with no practice, has to go out and drive the car at the limit knowing that a mistake will likely ruin the owners opportunity for the best possible result. I love it. And I thank you for having me.

-Steve

tb wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: .... some extremely "wooly" unsorted beasts ...

Speak for yourself! Not everyone brings something as crazy and unrefined as you!

Nah, its actually pretty "civilized" by comparasin to most things that come out.....but it does have a torque curve that makes all Honda's assume the fetal position in a dark corner though.

yamaha wrote:

tb wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: .... some extremely "wooly" unsorted beasts ...

Speak for yourself! Not everyone brings something as crazy and unrefined as you!

Nah, its actually pretty "civilized" by comparasin to most things that come out.....but it does have a torque curve that makes all Honda's assume the fetal position in a dark corner though.

It needs to be civilized and sorted... i put 20k miles on it a year. Like Paul says, there's nothing crazy about the car. Very basic build. Used off-the-shelf suspension actually designed for this car, street tires, and bolt ons on a stock motor.

I know my own limits. I'm going to have a much faster car doing something simple like this than if i were to attempt to do something crazy. Mazda knows better than i do.

Is it possible to rotary swap the mx6's?

yamaha wrote: Is it possible to rotary swap the mx6's?

Sure.

But if i'm going to do that, i'm going to take it one step further and just straight up re-create the IMSA GTU MX6s.

In reply to yamaha: I have a sawzall and a welder. Anything is possible.

I have a sawzall, multiple cutoff tools, die grinders, and lots of beer. It almost seems harder to NOT do this, at this point.