2015+ F-150’s... motor options?

Opti said:

I have a co-worker who is a Ford Homer and he hates the 3.5. he just traded it in. It was reliable, and got great gas mielage, but he hated the powerband for pulling, which was mainly what it was used for. I think he expected it to make power right off idle, he said he got tired of having to spool the turbos to get moving. Said it had the power, just had to work for it. This is not the common opinion I've heard, but a friend had one for a very short period and said the same thing but he only pulled with it twice.

That's an odd thing for him to say. The 3.5EB makes peak torque at like 1700 rpm and holds it for a while. I never found it lacking when pulling my 6500 lb enclosed trailer. My personal 2018 5.0L has to work a LOT harder by comparison as it makes peak everything north of 4k rpm.

In reply to rslifkin :

Yeah... my 2.7 tows "easier" (aka less throttle or revs required) than either the 5.3 or 6.2 GM trucks I've towed the same load with. Even the big diesel 3/4 and 1 ton trucks have turbo lag, but they're all making power way earlier in the rev range than a naturally aspirated truck. 

morello159 said:

Another vote here for the 2.7, but you can't go wrong with any engine. I get the EPA ratings out of mine - around 20mpg city, 25-26mpg highway. I get 16 or so towing my Miata from upstate SC to VIR, Road Atlanta or AMP. I've never wanted for power, and it completely destroyed my buddy's 5.3 truck at the drag strip. The 10 speed is okay - they had to replace the valve-body on mine (warranty replacement) because one of the solenoids was sticking. I wouldn't program it the way they did but c'est la vie. The 2018+ trucks have port in addition to direct injection which is supposed to help with the carbon build up (and an extra 25 ft-lbs on the 2.7). 

 

More importantly, buy it new and look at Akins Ford since you're in the Atlanta area. Mine stickered for $47k (2wd super screw, xlt, 2.7, 302a sport package, 36gal tank, tow package) but I walked out of Akins Ford for $33.5k all-in plus a free spray-in bedliner and 6yr/100k powertrain warranty. $3k of that discount was from a mailer, but Akins still had the best pricing of any dealer within 150 miles of me and none of that hidden fee bullcrap so many dealers do. If you've never been, that dealer is basically Disneyland for Ford and Ram customers.

So I’m back home in Atlanta, after driving over 550 miles in two days.  I really really like this truck.  The V8 was nice, but I agree with the comments that you have to put your foot into it to see the power.  Total round trip mileage was 21.4, which still amazes me.

However... I’m starting to think through the options here.  I agree with the comments that said it makes more sense to buy new than used.  That said, I also have a hard time considering a truck that spec’s out for over $50k MSRP.  I’m thinking that maybe I could be happy with an XLT 2.7L Eco with payload and towing packages.  If I could get into one of those in the low 30’s, it would be great.  The only options from the Lariat I just rented that I think are essential are the Sync 3, auto climate control and power seats.  I hate sunroofs and prefer cloth seats to leather.  The heaviest thing I can imagine towing is my Miata in a small enclosed trailer, and I can’t imaging that going north of the 2.7L capacity of 7,000 lbs.  I once owned a 2wd truck and regretted it when we got our annual snowstorm, but in truth I have no need to go off road and would probably use 4wd 0.01% of the time.  I know overkill is nice when it comes to towing, but I’m not getting a giant 3/4 ton pickup when 95% of my driving is around a busy city.

Morello, thanks for the suggestion about Akins.  The Ford dealer where I live has pretty limited inventory, and I get a bad feeling about them for some reason.

In reply to rslifkin :

I agree, and thought it was odd cause that's not normally what you hear. Ive only pulled with one once and thought it pulled fine, but I generally use a lot throttle when I'm loaded.

All I could think of is the EB as responsive at low throttle inputs, is it still peak torque at 1700 rpm even with low throttle? My completely unscientific guess is probably not it would take longer for the turbos to spool. If this is true and you drive a little more aggressively, you'd probably like it, why I recommended driving both

4x4 is always the right answer, at least down here in Tejas. I would recommend it solely for the depreciation factor, 4WD trucks are worth more through their entire life cycle than a 2wd

Brake_L8 said:

Opti said:

I have a co-worker who is a Ford Homer and he hates the 3.5. he just traded it in. It was reliable, and got great gas mielage, but he hated the powerband for pulling, which was mainly what it was used for. I think he expected it to make power right off idle, he said he got tired of having to spool the turbos to get moving. Said it had the power, just had to work for it. This is not the common opinion I've heard, but a friend had one for a very short period and said the same thing but he only pulled with it twice.

That's an odd thing for him to say. The 3.5EB makes peak torque at like 1700 rpm and holds it for a while. I never found it lacking when pulling my 6500 lb enclosed trailer. My personal 2018 5.0L has to work a LOT harder by comparison as it makes peak everything north of 4k rpm.

The 3.5EBs max torque is at more like 2700 than 1700 RPM. The old powerstroke I had definitely felt like more grunt at just off-idle, but the new EB will out pull it every day in real driving (stock-stock.)  If the neighbor is used to diesel power, yeah, it's a little higher in the RPM range, but nowhere near as high as the V8. I do admit that I can occasionally catch he EB flatfooted at very low speeds or coming off a stop and it takes a few seconds for power to show up. I think this may be a combination of throttle inpur lag and turbo spool, and I'll probably drop a tune it it at some point to help with it. My Mustang wasn't s crisp as I'd like form the factory either, probably all about component longevity

I did find an interesting article comparing dyno runs on the Coyote and the 3.5 that discussed how hard it was to get good readings on torque at low speeds with the turbo truck - https://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/04/how-we-dyno-tested-fords-3-5-liter-ecoboost-v6-and-5-0-liter-v8-engines.html

Maybe there are some stock tuning things going on that cause some inconsistency.

In reply to ultraclyde :

be careful what you pay for- there's not much throttle lag- it moves really quickly- especially when looking at what a "tuner" can actually change.  IMHO, the throttle moves so fast that it makes it very difficult to drive slowly.  Which is more important than most think it is- especially with a trailer.

ShinnyGroove said:

morello159 said:

Another vote here for the 2.7, but you can't go wrong with any engine. I get the EPA ratings out of mine - around 20mpg city, 25-26mpg highway. I get 16 or so towing my Miata from upstate SC to VIR, Road Atlanta or AMP. I've never wanted for power, and it completely destroyed my buddy's 5.3 truck at the drag strip. The 10 speed is okay - they had to replace the valve-body on mine (warranty replacement) because one of the solenoids was sticking. I wouldn't program it the way they did but c'est la vie. The 2018+ trucks have port in addition to direct injection which is supposed to help with the carbon build up (and an extra 25 ft-lbs on the 2.7). 

 

More importantly, buy it new and look at Akins Ford since you're in the Atlanta area. Mine stickered for $47k (2wd super screw, xlt, 2.7, 302a sport package, 36gal tank, tow package) but I walked out of Akins Ford for $33.5k all-in plus a free spray-in bedliner and 6yr/100k powertrain warranty. $3k of that discount was from a mailer, but Akins still had the best pricing of any dealer within 150 miles of me and none of that hidden fee bullcrap so many dealers do. If you've never been, that dealer is basically Disneyland for Ford and Ram customers.

So I’m back home in Atlanta, after driving over 550 miles in two days.  I really really like this truck.  The V8 was nice, but I agree with the comments that you have to put your foot into it to see the power.  Total round trip mileage was 21.4, which still amazes me.

 

However... I’m starting to think through the options here.  I agree with the comments that said it makes more sense to buy new than used.  However, I also have a hard time considering a truck that spec’s out for over $50k MSRP.  I’m thinking that maybe I could be happy with an XLT 2.7L Eco with payload and towing packages.  If I could get into one of those in the low 30’s, it would be great.  The only options from the Lariat I just rented that I think are essential are the Sync 3, auto climate control and power seats.  I hate sunroofs and prefer cloth seats to leather.  The heaviest thing I can imagine towing is my Miata in a small enclosed trailer, and I can’t imaging that going north of the 2.7L capacity of 7,000 lbs.  I once had a 2wd truck and regretted it when we got our annual snowstorm, but in truth I have no need to go off road and would probably use 4wd 0.01% of the time.  I know overkill is nice when it comes to towing, but I’m not getting a giant 3/4 ton pickup when 95% of my driving is around a busy city.

 

Morello, thanks for the suggestion about Akins.  The Ford dealer where I live has pretty limited inventory, and I get a bad feeling about them for some reason.

I'd actually go to the dealer and talk to them. No modern trucks ever sell for MSRP.

As an example, there is a dealership here in OKC currently selling leftover '18 Ram 1500s for $15k off MSRP.

ShinnyGroove said:

morello159 said:

Another vote here for the 2.7, but you can't go wrong with any engine. I get the EPA ratings out of mine - around 20mpg city, 25-26mpg highway. I get 16 or so towing my Miata from upstate SC to VIR, Road Atlanta or AMP. I've never wanted for power, and it completely destroyed my buddy's 5.3 truck at the drag strip. The 10 speed is okay - they had to replace the valve-body on mine (warranty replacement) because one of the solenoids was sticking. I wouldn't program it the way they did but c'est la vie. The 2018+ trucks have port in addition to direct injection which is supposed to help with the carbon build up (and an extra 25 ft-lbs on the 2.7). 

 

More importantly, buy it new and look at Akins Ford since you're in the Atlanta area. Mine stickered for $47k (2wd super screw, xlt, 2.7, 302a sport package, 36gal tank, tow package) but I walked out of Akins Ford for $33.5k all-in plus a free spray-in bedliner and 6yr/100k powertrain warranty. $3k of that discount was from a mailer, but Akins still had the best pricing of any dealer within 150 miles of me and none of that hidden fee bullcrap so many dealers do. If you've never been, that dealer is basically Disneyland for Ford and Ram customers.

So I’m back home in Atlanta, after driving over 550 miles in two days.  I really really like this truck.  The V8 was nice, but I agree with the comments that you have to put your foot into it to see the power.  Total round trip mileage was 21.4, which still amazes me.

 

However... I’m starting to think through the options here.  I agree with the comments that said it makes more sense to buy new than used.  However, I also have a hard time considering a truck that spec’s out for over $50k MSRP.  I’m thinking that maybe I could be happy with an XLT 2.7L Eco with payload and towing packages.  If I could get into one of those in the low 30’s, it would be great.  The only options from the Lariat I just rented that I think are essential are the Sync 3, auto climate control and power seats.  I hate sunroofs and prefer cloth seats to leather.  The heaviest thing I can imagine towing is my Miata in a small enclosed trailer, and I can’t imaging that going north of the 2.7L capacity of 7,000 lbs.  I once had a 2wd truck and regretted it when we got our annual snowstorm, but in truth I have no need to go off road and would probably use 4wd 0.01% of the time.  I know overkill is nice when it comes to towing, but I’m not getting a giant 3/4 ton pickup when 95% of my driving is around a busy city.

 

Morello, thanks for the suggestion about Akins.  The Ford dealer where I live has pretty limited inventory, and I get a bad feeling about them for some reason.

Take a look through the F150 packages (order guide) and find what you really want. The 302A package my truck came with has remote start, sync 3, heated and powered cloth seats and came with a ton of cash on the hood. I kind of wish it had auto climate control, but in prior cars that had it I ended up running the thing myself anyway because the fan speed was always wrong. Akins has 41 trucks with the 302A package and the 2.7 in stock, starting at about $32k + tax/license.

Regarding towing, the 2.7 with the 53B towing package (there are 3 towing packages) and 3.55 gears (standard) can tow 7700lbs. Not sure where 7000 number comes from, but again that's plenty for a Miata. I didn't want to pay more upfront and more at every fill for 4wd. 

It sounds like your use case is identical to mine, and you're in the same area. It did about 6 months of shopping and research before I bought mine. Shoot me a PM if you want to call or have any questions.

Sorry for the double post, but this truck is probably perfect for you (speced almost identically to mine). Tow package, e-locker in case you get stuck without 4wd, 36gal tank:

http://www.akinsford.com/vehicle-details/2019-ford-f-150-xlt-winder-ga-id-28048650

I'm also slightly biased because my truck is magma red and it's a gorgeous color. 

Alfa - interesting point. I'll make sure that's part of my due diligence when researching tunes and tuners.

+eleventy billion on the 36gal tank. It sucks when you fill it from empty but the range is incredible.

I have owned both a 3.5 ecoboost and 5.0 F-150s.

I put about 90k miles on a 2013 3.5 ecoboost and now have 20k on my 2018 5.0.  I use/used them the same way, mostly commuting to/from work with a few long trips and occasional towing.  All of the towing has been a Corvair on a U-haul trailer.

Overall my gas mileage has been about the same, maybe slightly better with the 5.0. That is likely due to the 10-speed transmission vs the 6-speed on the 3.5.  The 3.5 did better when I tried hard to be easy on gas, but worse when I was having more fun with the power.

In terms of power delivery, the 3.5 had a slight flat spot right off the line or if you floored it from a steady cruise as the turbos spooled up, but I got used to it very quickly.  I just learned to hit the gas a moment before I needed to get moving quickly.  It was nothing like the old 80's and 90's turbos that some of us older guys are familiar with.  And once past that, it would press you back into your seat until you let up on the gas.  I used to say that every gear was the right gear with that truck once the boost kicked in.  I was amazed at the grades I was able to climb without a downshift.

When towing, the 3.5 took a moment or two to get moving but, after that, it had no trouble at all accelerating with a car on a u-haul trailer.  The 5.0 also had no issues with the trailer, though it had to rev a little higher to get the same level of acceleration.  If I expected to tow more often I would probably have gone with another 3.5.

Overall, the power of the 3.5 caused me to break out in more silly grins than does the 5.0, but the sound of the 5.0 is soooo much better than the 3.5.  And the power is nice and smooth, where it was a little "lumpier" in the 3.5.  Having had both, I think that you would be happy with either one.  They are both far more capable than you are likely to need and should last longer than you will want to keep the truck.

I had a 2.7 ecoboost as a loaner for a month while I waited for my truck to arrive, and it was also very impressive.  The delay of power due to boost building up was shorter, but it was not quite as strong as the 3.5.  Just driving around town it felt as strong or stronger than my 5.0 does, but it also had a slightly "lumpy" power delivery that made my happy that I bought a 5.0.

Both of my trucks (and the loaner) were/are almost identical Supercrew XLT 2wd.

If your in the hotter states, cooled seats are awesome. I never even considered them until I hopped in a friend's F150 after being out in the sun all day, it was Glorious, I would love to have a car with them 

morello159 said:

ShinnyGroove said:

morello159 said:

Another vote here for the 2.7, but you can't go wrong with any engine. I get the EPA ratings out of mine - around 20mpg city, 25-26mpg highway. I get 16 or so towing my Miata from upstate SC to VIR, Road Atlanta or AMP. I've never wanted for power, and it completely destroyed my buddy's 5.3 truck at the drag strip. The 10 speed is okay - they had to replace the valve-body on mine (warranty replacement) because one of the solenoids was sticking. I wouldn't program it the way they did but c'est la vie. The 2018+ trucks have port in addition to direct injection which is supposed to help with the carbon build up (and an extra 25 ft-lbs on the 2.7). 

 

More importantly, buy it new and look at Akins Ford since you're in the Atlanta area. Mine stickered for $47k (2wd super screw, xlt, 2.7, 302a sport package, 36gal tank, tow package) but I walked out of Akins Ford for $33.5k all-in plus a free spray-in bedliner and 6yr/100k powertrain warranty. $3k of that discount was from a mailer, but Akins still had the best pricing of any dealer within 150 miles of me and none of that hidden fee bullcrap so many dealers do. If you've never been, that dealer is basically Disneyland for Ford and Ram customers.

So I’m back home in Atlanta, after driving over 550 miles in two days.  I really really like this truck.  The V8 was nice, but I agree with the comments that you have to put your foot into it to see the power.  Total round trip mileage was 21.4, which still amazes me.

 

However... I’m starting to think through the options here.  I agree with the comments that said it makes more sense to buy new than used.  However, I also have a hard time considering a truck that spec’s out for over $50k MSRP.  I’m thinking that maybe I could be happy with an XLT 2.7L Eco with payload and towing packages.  If I could get into one of those in the low 30’s, it would be great.  The only options from the Lariat I just rented that I think are essential are the Sync 3, auto climate control and power seats.  I hate sunroofs and prefer cloth seats to leather.  The heaviest thing I can imagine towing is my Miata in a small enclosed trailer, and I can’t imaging that going north of the 2.7L capacity of 7,000 lbs.  I once had a 2wd truck and regretted it when we got our annual snowstorm, but in truth I have no need to go off road and would probably use 4wd 0.01% of the time.  I know overkill is nice when it comes to towing, but I’m not getting a giant 3/4 ton pickup when 95% of my driving is around a busy city.

 

Morello, thanks for the suggestion about Akins.  The Ford dealer where I live has pretty limited inventory, and I get a bad feeling about them for some reason.

Take a look through the F150 packages (order guide) and find what you really want. The 302A package my truck came with has remote start, sync 3, heated and powered cloth seats and came with a ton of cash on the hood. I kind of wish it had auto climate control, but in prior cars that had it I ended up running the thing myself anyway because the fan speed was always wrong. Akins has 41 trucks with the 302A package and the 2.7 in stock, starting at about $32k + tax/license.

Regarding towing, the 2.7 with the 53B towing package (there are 3 towing packages) and 3.55 gears (standard) can tow 7700lbs. Not sure where 7000 number comes from, but again that's plenty for a Miata. I didn't want to pay more upfront and more at every fill for 4wd. 

It sounds like your use case is identical to mine, and you're in the same area. It did about 6 months of shopping and research before I bought mine. Shoot me a PM if you want to call or have any questions.

Wow that dealer has great prices. My dealer won't sell a Lariat for less than 50k. They have "menu pricing", basically no haggling like Carmax. They have crew cab xl's for 41k 

zaichikmiller said:

I have owned both a 3.5 ecoboost and 5.0 F-150s.

I put about 90k miles on a 2013 3.5 ecoboost and now have 20k on my 2018 5.0.  I use/used them the same way, mostly commuting to/from work with a few long trips and occasional towing.  All of the towing has been a Corvair on a U-haul trailer.

Is this a fair comparison? Isn't the '18 truck like 500-600 lbs lighter?

z31maniac said:

zaichikmiller said:

I have owned both a 3.5 ecoboost and 5.0 F-150s.

I put about 90k miles on a 2013 3.5 ecoboost and now have 20k on my 2018 5.0.  I use/used them the same way, mostly commuting to/from work with a few long trips and occasional towing.  All of the towing has been a Corvair on a U-haul trailer.

Is this a fair comparison? Isn't the '18 truck like 500-600 lbs lighter?

You are correct!  I had forgotten about the 500 pound weight difference.  That would certainly account for the slightly better fuel economy I have gotten with the 5.0.

In reply to yupididit :

Mine too. Thus the recommendation, and my 2-hour drive to pick the truck up. 

Why only looking at Ford?

 Nearly all the trucks are all new or at least refreshed,F150 gets a new body very soon and hybrid,tundras all new and about to be unveiled at this winters auto shows.

 Lots of choices to had in the 1/2 ton market now and very soon to be more.

kevlarcorolla said:

Why only looking at Ford?

 

 Nearly all the trucks are all new or at least refreshed,F150 gets a new body very soon and hybrid,tundras all new and about to be unveiled at this winters auto shows.

 Lots of choices to had in the 1/2 ton market now and very soon to be more.

I like the Rams, but there is no way I am going to own the first model year of a new generation of Dodge anything.  Current Tundras are terribly fuel inefficient, and it will probably be another year before the new one is available to buy.  I could do Chevy/GM, but I find I like the interiors of the Ford trucks better.  Plus the new Silverado looks butt ugly to me.

In reply to ShinnyGroove :

Reading between the lines of my post perhaps  a short term lease to get further into the new stuff being out might work.

 I recently drove the '19 ram,19' chev,'19 ford and an '18 titan,all middle of the road trim levels

Chev rode the worst empty,followed by the dodge,ford then the titan.

 Thats also how I rank them on overall ride,drivability etc etc.

 Both the titan and the chev are ugly,gmc version I like however.

 Best warranty in the game for the titan helps overlook the mpg hit it offers.

 For fun look at the number of recalls and dealer generated inquires to issues for all '19 half tons.

 Ford and dodge lead the way with dozens of recalls followed by the gm twins.

 The titan has one recall.

 When I pull the trigger on a new truck it will be the ford or the nissan for different reasons.

 Titan has the best warranty in the industry also hard to ignore.

 Of course liking a vehicle is mostly subjective so there's that :)

I can say my family has owned 3 dodges half tons. One is mine. My 03 has 319k miles, stock engine and trans, it does truck stuff. My dad's 05 has 481k miles or there abouts. Had the engine rebuilt preventatively at 400k and was told it was uneccesary as bores and bearing were fine. Trans started slipping when cold at like 180k and he rebuilt it at 300k. It also does truck stuff. My mom's old 95 was sold at 386k with the stock trans and engine still in it. It also did truck stuff.

When I say do truck stuff I mean towing a boat, towing a 32 foot camper, hauling a trailer full of equipment, etc.

I'll always be a Dodge truck guy.

From personal experience GM trucks are pretty reliable but generally easy to fix when they do fail the LS/LT engines are tried and true. Name of the game with GM seems to be simplicity,that's why I like them.

I'm not a Ford guy at all, but even I will say they're trucks have come a long way,and I wouldn't mind having one, but I don't think I'd spend my own money on one, just personal preference. If I was gonna keep something for a long time to do truck stuff with it and maintain it myself, I'd rather work on a LT than an ecoboost.

Drive everything and see what you like.

Also on a new truck consider your local dealer market. You may love Ford but if your local Ford dealer is terrible, getting warranty work can sour your ownership experience. I love my Miata and hate my dealer. That long ass Nissan warranty is useless if there is no one to fix it or your only option is garbage

In reply to Opti :

Seems both the new gen hemi and Ls engines have issues with the cylinder deactivation bits.

The hemi in the '19 I drive felt like poo when it shut down to 4 cyl mode,lots of vibration and generally not happy about not hitting on all 8

Hard to buy a new '03 anything so there's that.

kevlarcorolla said:

In reply to Opti :

Seems both the new gen hemi and Ls engines have issues with the cylinder deactivation bits.

The hemi in the '19 I drive felt like poo when it shut down to 4 cyl mode,lots of vibration and generally not happy about not hitting on all 8

Hard to buy a new '03 anything so there's that.

I think it runs better than you think it is running- it may feel rough and crappy, but for the actual running, it's designed that way.  None the less, the various systems that deactivate cylinders is not a terribly robust system, and I'd avoid it if given the chance.  

Other than the lawsuit data that pretty much should be telling all of the engineers that the system does not deliver in the real world- the key problem with it is the robustness of the actual valve deactivation system.  The only one I'd personally be confident in is one that would be based on Honda's VTEC style valve activation- where you just switch the cam profile to not open the valves.  The rest of the systems that deactivate the rockers or lifters or whatever have all had issues.  I just finsihed a similar project, and I'd like to avoid it.

Having towed a fair amount with the 3.5EB, I can say it is more than capable.  I'll even go as far as to say it's fun.

Don't let the tow ratings scare you, but do the research.  Many times tow ratings are marketing-driven.  For instance, IF the 2.7L and 3.5L are identical in all other ways, their main reason for saying the 3.5 can tow more is because they want you to spend more money on the 3.5L.  Power alone doesn't do much for tow ratings.  I moved nearly 38,000 lbs of truck, freight, and a car trailer with a 180 hp 6-cylinder.  Mountains were slow, but it did the trick.

Of course, that was a 26' box truck and a 30' enclosed trailer, not a pickup, but you get the idea.

So if you do the research and find out that the 2.7L has the same trans, axle and ratio, radiator, etc... either one will tow adequately.

Disclaimer.... that isn't legal advice, just ramblings from my own brain.

In reply to Opti :

The majority of the population lives in or near urban centers.  There we have several dealerships of various brands. 

Don’t like a given dealership?  It’s not that far to another of the same brand.  In fact we tend to shop price and then go have it serviced at whatever dealership does good work. 

Chevy for example probably has 30-40 dealerships around here. Ford has several dealers within 10 miles.