$25B loan approved for auto makers

this is not a bail out..

I repeat...

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080928164938.dtc44u1c&show_article=1&lst=1

Just use the damn money and get the focus RS street legal here damnit.

I think a better solution would have been a freeze or moratorium on ALL regs affecting ALL vehicles. While I am all for CAFE...or whatever, to motivate the Big 2.5, I'm not so sure this money would be needed if the government just gave the carmakers a bit of breathing room.

Hmmmm a loan to the auto industry is not a bail out but a loan to an insurance company is.

I guess it's just perspective. We LIKE car companies.

integraguy wrote: I think a better solution would have been a freeze or moratorium on ALL regs affecting ALL vehicles. While I am all for CAFE...or whatever, to motivate the Big 2.5, I'm not so sure this money would be needed if the government just gave the carmakers a bit of breathing room.

What would that do? I don't get the logic. All car companies have to meet the regulations, why have only the big 2.5 consistently not been able to profit while doing so? Besides, I would say gas prices are doing more to hurt domestic car sales than any regulations ever did.

bastomatic wrote:

integraguy wrote: I think a better solution would have been a freeze or moratorium on ALL regs affecting ALL vehicles. While I am all for CAFE...or whatever, to motivate the Big 2.5, I'm not so sure this money would be needed if the government just gave the carmakers a bit of breathing room.

What would that do? I don't get the logic. All car companies have to meet the regulations, why have only the big 2.5 consistently not been able to profit while doing so? Besides, I would say gas prices are doing more to hurt domestic car sales than any regulations ever did.

I would say producing terrible cars hurt domestic car sales!

Not to mention putting all our R&D into gigantic trucks instead of hybrids, alternative-fuel technology, and small cars...

Not a bail out eh? So what would you call it, a bad investment?

So where are we getting these billions of dollars?

HP and Epson.

integraguy wrote: I think a better solution would have been a freeze or moratorium on ALL regs affecting ALL vehicles. While I am all for CAFE...or whatever, to motivate the Big 2.5, I'm not so sure this money would be needed if the government just gave the carmakers a bit of breathing room.

Being on the inside, I actually disagree.

IMHO, they should accelerate any CO2 and Tier 3 rules with the 25B loan. The point of the loan is to make sure that Ford and GM have enough fast cash to put the technology into production sooner.

We are short investment cash and time right now.

I'd also like to see this funded by an increase in gas tax. The only real way a CO2 "rule" will really work is if fuel is expensive, since most studies have families spend a fixed annual amount on gas (roughly).

Anyway, one thing to consider in terms of impact. ING is being protected for it's 80B in insurance. Last year, Ford had $150B in sales. So if just Ford goes down, there's a LOT of companies that feed that sales.

Eric

It's like pouring Red Bull down a dead horse's throat.

alfadriver wrote: I'd also like to see this funded by an increase in gas tax. The only real way a CO2 "rule" will really work is if fuel is expensive, since most studies have families spend a fixed annual amount on gas (roughly).

Really? Source? Our fuel expenses are roughly 3 times what they were a few years ago. Our amount of driving is fixed, not our expenditure.

DILYSI Dave wrote:

alfadriver wrote: I'd also like to see this funded by an increase in gas tax. The only real way a CO2 "rule" will really work is if fuel is expensive, since most studies have families spend a fixed annual amount on gas (roughly).

Really? Source? Our fuel expenses are roughly 3 times what they were a few years ago. Our amount of driving is fixed, not our expenditure.

It's more of a genrerality- but the trend has always been that when gas prices go up, people will buy more fuel efficient cars and/or drive less. When the best CAFE cars came out, and gas priced dropped, people just drove more- it was a LOT cheaper to drive than to fly.

If I'm not mistakend, Dave, you already drive a fuel efficient car, too, right? So you already started at one extreme- basic commute, efficent car. But many, many others decided that FE isn't as important as hauling, speed, comfort, whatever, but now the story changes.

If gas prices drop once better cars come out, and if plane tickets remain somewhat constant, you'll see more families taking longer driving vacations becasue they can and it's cheap.

Hard to use you as an example, Dave. You are too "responsible".

Eric

GameboyRMH wrote: It's like pouring Red Bull down a dead horse's throat.

Just out of curiosity, I'd love to know where you work.

So I can not buy that product for no good reason, too....