$4.00/gallon gas coming? Bring it on...

I didn't recall the exact specifics, but I had heard that Smart was offering a very aggresive lease offer on their EV. Wouldn't have been a great fit for me, but still a heck of a deal.

I don't have that kind of infrastructure here, Bryce, you're lucky. I'm limited to what I can do on a home charge.

4+ months into lease of my LEAF and I still love it. I'm starting to see the effects of cold weather on range. We had some fairly cold days recently...low 20's in the morning and 30 for the high. My 50 mile round trip commute to work drained much more battery than in the summer. If you're running the heat full time, 50 miles is probably as far as you'd want to push it on a really cold day. I usually cycle the heat and keep my seat and steering wheel heater on.

I am really enjoying the car, but one flaw I noticed drives me nuts. The heated steering wheel programming is goofy. Turn it on and it gets hot enough to make your palms bright red. It then shuts off and won't cycle back on for 20 minutes (if at all). Other owners have complained of the same problem. I've brought the car to the dealer and spoken to Nissan directly, and the answer I was given is that the car is functioning as designed and they can't/won't do anything at this time.

Yeah, our Leaf definitely has a significantly reduced range when the temps drop below 30ish, especially if you're using the heater (but still significant even if you're not due to the battery inefficiency). I'm looking forward to getting my Spark EV (which has been on order for months, any day now!) which has a heated and cooled battery so it won't be impacted nearly as much in very hot and very cold ambient conditions like the Leaf is.

The steering wheel heat cycling is designed that way on purpose, but I also do not like it. Your car does not have a fault, it's a "design feature" for some reason or another...every Leaf does the exact same thing.

Bryce

I got sort of excited yesterday about the $6,000+ price drop on the outgoing mitsu i-miev. Post 7,500 credit it brings the price down to 15k which is downright affordable even for outright purchase.

Nashco wrote:

ProDarwin wrote: I saw this ad online yesterday. Seems like a good deal.

Where did you see this online? If it's available to others outside the Portland area that would be much better, so please share! I haven't seen anything close to this price advertised so far. Bryce

I mis-spoke. Just went and searched for it and it was $139/mo. Still good, but certainly not $99/mo good.

Vigo wrote: I got sort of excited yesterday about the $6,000+ price drop on the outgoing mitsu i-miev. Post 7,500 credit it brings the price down to 15k which is downright affordable even for outright purchase.

The smart can be purchased for "as low as $12,490[1]" I can't find where the "[1]" footnote is though.

http://www.smartusa.com/models/electric-drive/overview.aspx?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Electric%20Drive%20Non-Brand&utm_content=smart%20cars

Nashco wrote: The steering wheel heat cycling is designed that way on purpose, but I also do not like it. Your car does not have a fault, it's a "design feature" for some reason or another...every Leaf does the exact same thing.

That one drives me up a tree, too. I think the seat's actually the same way, but it's harder to ignore the wheel, since it goes from almost uncomfortably warm to "hey, my hands are cold!" and stays there...

I hate it when the intended function is to suck.

I don't like how hot the wheel gets, but once it is heated I never notice that it gets cold again during my 40 minute commute. Cools down yes, but never cold. The seats cycling has irritated me though.

Other than a few niggles like that, I love it. I would have sprung for the QC package but there are none near me. I've used public chargers twice in 2+ months of ownership, but it was very convenient both times.

Getting the 220 station at home has been a revelation.

In reply to bastomatic:

The QC thing is cool; if I hadn't been slow getting out of bed I'd have had no trouble at all with my... ~140-mile(?) round trip to meet up with Ditchdigger at a swap meet. Stopped partway there at a QC and grabbed a second coffee, and at the same one on the way back to get lunch... Was parked on a Blink network L2 charger while inside the swap meet. I dig the PNW's infrastructure.

I spent more eating while charging than on charging

The smart can be purchased for "as low as $12,490[1]" I can't find where the "[1]" footnote is though.

Interesting. I'd say if it was being financed the Mitsu is $3k more appealing to me, but for someone who can barely afford 13k, it's nice that there is a 'real car' (non NEV) EV option out there.

Had my first "low battery" ding today while a half mile from home. The low temps lately are giving a good idea of what to expect for winter range. Drive time temps were about 16 degrees today. Preheated while connected in the AM, kept climate control at 60 degrees, averaged 70 mph over 17 miles.

I preheated again, unconnected to power, before heading home. Averaged about 40 mph in stop and go, with climate control at 60 degrees, for about 13 miles. Battery was about 17% when I got home.

That's a drain of about 63% over 30 miles, meaning a full range of under 50 miles in this kind of driving with climate control turned on, in 15 degree temps.

The 70mph cruise is what's really going to drain you. My commute is 50 miles round trip, but it's 90% country roads cruising at 45-50. The other 10% would be considered city driving. In the summer, I would use about 50-55% of the battery for that ride. Now in this cold we've had, 15 degrees in the morning and 25 in the afternoon, I'm using closer to 70-75% of the battery. That's with preheating in the morning while plugged in and then only using climate control sparingly. If I kept it on full time, I'd probably use 80-85%. For me, 65 miles is probably max range in this cold...assuming I don't use the climate control non-stop.

Keep reporting on the cold weather ranges. I have a 60 mile round-trip commute in CT, so I'm very curious to see what folks are seeing in terms of range. I don't think the current Leaf has enough range to make that trip comfortably through the winter, but I would guess that in the next few years, an electric car would fit very well with my commute.

My commute is roughly 1/2 hour on 40-50 MPH backroads and then another 1/2 hour of highway. The good news is terms of range is that there's enough traffic on the highway that I would rarely see speeds above 55 MPH.

dj06482, with a 60 mile round trip in cold weather, work place charging will make all the difference in the world. The discussion goes from "maybe someday" to "how about now?" very quickly. Any chance your employer would let you plug in during the day? Even a 110 trickle charge would work for the long charge time you'd get at work, you would just need a normal wall outlet you could park nearby. Many states also have tax incentives (in addition to existing federal incentives) for installing work place chargers, making it a pretty easy sell for an open minded employer who likes subsidized infrastructure on their property. What about nearby your work, are there any other public places to plug in? You can check this easiest using plugshare.com near your office.

In my experience, worst-case scenario with higher speeds and extreme temperatures are usually about half of best-case scenario range. I usually state the Leaf as having 60-100 mile range depending on how fast you're driving and what the temperature is. Sounds like you guys are basically in alignment with my story. Obviously, pre-heating/pre-cooling from the battery (without being plugged in) is outside of that expectation...you could get a 0 mile range if you just kept heating the car all day without going anywhere.

Bryce

We had our first low-charge warning a couple of nights ago; everything ended up working out pretty much perfectly, but we did go so far at one point as to shut the heater off while watching the charge decline as we did 55mph uphill on the way out of the suburbs. We knew it was the tail-end of worst-case conditions to be followed by a long downhill and a bit of cross-town, but it was close enough to get our attention. (We didn't actually get the low-charge warning 'til much closer to home)

It was a pretty unusual day, though. My girlfriend had driven the Leaf to work downtown, come home to pick me up without any significant time to charge (we were on the 110, still a while before I'll get a chance to install the L2 EVSE), then we went to a software user group thing out in Beaverboro/The Lesser Portland Metropolitan Area

And if course it was quite chilly.

As an aside, I was slightly puzzled that there were no chargers at a major Intel campus. I think plugshare said there were a couple of L2s which we could have used if we were more desperate, but we didn't feel like walking 20 minutes to the meeting in 20-something degree weather.

Got a few inches of snow today, so we ventured out to see how the Leaf does in unplowed snow and slush. Considering the economy tires, it did quite well. The (defeatable) traction control and vehicle dynamic control do their jobs. Even in a small cul de sac with 3 inches of snow and slush, it was just point and shoot.

With snow tires, it would be great.

Nashco wrote: dj06482, with a 60 mile round trip in cold weather, work place charging will make all the difference in the world. The discussion goes from "maybe someday" to "how about now?" very quickly. Any chance your employer would let you plug in during the day? Even a 110 trickle charge would work for the long charge time you'd get at work, you would just need a normal wall outlet you could park nearby. Many states also have tax incentives (in addition to existing federal incentives) for installing work place chargers, making it a pretty easy sell for an open minded employer who likes subsidized infrastructure on their property. What about nearby your work, are there any other public places to plug in? You can check this easiest using plugshare.com near your office.

Bryce -

I've looked into plugshare, there's a station near work that I should check out. Our company seems to like green initiatives, so I could ask if there are any outlets I could use in our parking garage. I'm not looking to buy immediately, but I'd like to go electric when I do.

I'm hoping that in the next few years the technology advances (either on the EV side or the charging infrastructure) enough that I could do the round trip in any weather without charging.

dj06482 wrote: I'm hoping that in the next few years the technology advances (either on the EV side or the charging infrastructure) enough that I could do the round trip in any weather without charging.

No need to hope, that will happen, 100% guaranteed. Technically, it's already easily possible if you buy a Tesla!

Bryce

Figured this would be the right place to link this up. I'm going to try write a blog on living with the Leaf in Detroit. Thought some might be interested.

Electricity in the Motor City

Well, I've had my first problem. My heater seems to be working at about 10% capacity. I'll take it to the dealer this week, but from a google search it seems I'm not the only one having this problem.

You guys are talking about hitting charging stations while out and about. How long do you need to charge? It seems terribly inconvenient to HAVE to charge a few times while on a day trip to the beach or something.

DrBoost wrote: You guys are talking about hitting charging stations while out and about. How long do you need to charge? It seems terribly inconvenient to HAVE to charge a few times while on a day trip to the beach or something.

I posted a trip log at the top of page 9 with specific time for charging referenced. If you're on an adventure, stopping to eat or doing some shopping doesn't seem terribly inconvenient. When you drive your gas car for adventures, don't you stop to eat, refuel, buy supplies, use the restroom, etc.?

You'd be surprised how quickly you adapt to the charging routine and multitask when you know where and how long you'll be stopped. Heck, even when I'm "just waiting" I still taking advantage of the time and call friends or family I haven't talked to in a while, which I think is still time well spent.

Bryce

different objectives I guess … when I'm traveling somewhere, I'm trying to get there … period … for me it's not so much the journey as it is the destination … it only takes me a few min. to fill up with gas, use the restroom, grab some coffee, get something I can eat (without taking my eyes off the road) …. a charging station is going to greatly change the trip time for me

In reply to wbjones: certainly, but in those cases you wouldn't even consider a car like the leaf. Going on a long distance road trip is really not an option in these yet.

These are well suited to commuting and short day trips.

You could probably pull it off in a high capacity Tesla.

you're right … if I was still working (live ~ 3 miles from the plant) and if I was in the market for a brandy new vehicle, a straight up EV would be something I'd at least consider … but since my vehicles have to do multiple tasks (trips being one of them) … probably not

This thread has inspired me. I hadn't really considered an ev, but it would probably be ideal for us as my wife's DD. She commutes 60km round trip per day )less than half is highway). I don't know that it would work for me. I'm 80km (70 of it highway), but I could charge at work and I work 24 hours at a time (firefighter). I've booked test drives with Nissan, smart, and Mitsubishi. The focus is too much money for an economy car and just the other day I put out a garage fire started by a tesla :) Any advice? I know I won't get deals like you guys, but we pay more for gas, so the savings are greater.

So far I've driven the Leaf and the smart Ed. The leaf was really nice, but the prices here are stupid. We get an $8500 government subsidy on electric cars and they still want $378 a month for a four year lease (using the $8500 as down payment). You guys were getting $199 lease rates. I went to see the smart. I was annoyed because I called the day before and asked if they had one I could drive, they said yes to come in and I told them I would be in today. I showed up 20 min after the dealer opened. The only one they had for me to drive had only 20% of a charge left on the battery. The sales guy didn't even mention it to me. I couldn't get the car to go over 80km/h no matter what I tried. I'm not sure if it was because if the low battery or what, but I wasn't impressed. I'll go to the other smart dealer and drive one. I'm done with this one. The dealer wants $298 a month for 39 months after the $8500 subsidy. I wish I could get the $139 price they advertise in the states...

I'm thinking it's not going to be worth it for me to buy one based on the 'deals' I'm finding.