A question for the GRM offroaders

I have an 88 Wrangler that is ending what I call "stage 1". Meaning, it is almost to the point that I am done messing with it other than maintenance and small repairs. No more mods. I want to wheel it for awhile at some of Michigans ORV parks and 2 tracks. Its stock height with good bumpers/recovery points front and rear. I have like new 235/75/15s on it and I want to wear them out before going down the lift/axle/big tire upgrade path.

I have budget for basically one more thing before I call Stage 1 complete. I wanted to bounce the three choices off the Hive. I am leaning towards one pretty heavy, but I want to see other opinions. I can do either of these for about the same 200-250 price.

1. Used Smittybilt winch. Either 8k or 10k. Biggest down side I see is even more weight on my 25 year old springs.

2. Replace my current 3.07 geared 30/35 combo with a set from a 4cyl with 4.10. Yes, I know the general consensus is 35s suck, but I am running small tires and I have had issues even in my pasture with the 3.07 being so high.

3. Lunchbox locker in one of my current axles. Still debating if I would put it in the front or rear.

Whichever way I go, it will hopefully be the last mod for the next 2 years (famous last words, right ). Thoughts?

It really just depends on how you want to use it.

1. Winch - I like winches, mainly because of the utility even not offroading and the "Safety blanket" of being able to attempt things while out on your own that you otherwise might turn back because of.

2. Taller gears almost always help, especially on a 4-banger, so if the budget allows it, not a bad option, unless you plan on swapping out the rear Dana 35 at some point, then it won't be worth the $$ in my mind.

3. I'm not a fan of lunchbox lockers unless it's a trail rig. On the street they are no fun, and on the stock small axles, just increase your chances of breakage. I would take a stocker with a winch over lockers in most cases.

Just wheel your rig as is first. Lockers or gears will be nice, but not needed. Recovery gear is always handy.

Looks like two votes for a winch. That was the way I was leaning too.

This isn't intended to be a daily driver. I see pros and cons for each. In my mind doing all three would make a perfect stopping point in the build. Between job changes, interstate moves, motivation and project ADD, its taken me 4 years to get the motor and trans swapped and make it drive again. Time to have some fun!

winch. you can never build it tall or powerful enough to never need a winch. Also keep in mind the more capable it is, the bigger your balls get, and the bigger the hole is that ends up swallowing your rig, making it less and less fun to pull it by hand winch and cables, or wait for AAA...

AND, its mod #1 if you plan to wheel alone.

-J0N

Dana 44 from a late 80's Wagoneer Edition XJ Cherokee. You know, the ones with wood grain and quad headlights. Repeat from an XJ Cherokee.

That and a $90.00 mini spool. I drove 97.4% street with 31" Super Swampers and it was all but invisible except for the little chirps under throttle on corners.

And VERY predictable in New England snowstorms. My friend drives a CJ 8 with Detroits front and rear with zero issues as well.

You wanna turn a decent off reader into a very capable off roader? Lock the rear. Buy a come-a-long and a Hi-Lift to get unstuck.

I'd throw a pull pal in the back instead of a winch and deal with the gearing/lockers/spool. Having said that, we never had winches when I used to get stuck. Just jacks and shovels and the odd come-a-long that someone stole from their dad. I learned that I prefer not getting stuck in the first place.

mazdeuce wrote: I'd throw a pull pal in the back instead of a winch

But a pull pal is a winch anchor...

I'd say gearing. If you wheel in a group you'll never need that winch. A couple of guys I wheel with have winches, they've never been needed.

If you wheel alone, then yeah get the winch.

ebonyandivory wrote:

mazdeuce wrote: I'd throw a pull pal in the back instead of a winch

But a pull pal is a winch anchor...

Sorry, meant the More Power Puller. Stupid brain.

BTW in terms of locker placement, if you only have one you should put it in the rear. Mind you an auto locker is likely to be a giant, parts-consuming PITA on the street - if you drive on the street a lot, save up for a manual selectable locker or you'll more than pay for the difference in tires and axle bearings over the years, ask me how I know.

A front locker, once active, doesn't make as much of a difference in traction as a rear locker and causes all kinds of handling problems. I would only put a manual selectable locker in the front (so I can drive in 4WD with an unlocked front diff) and I'd only activate it as a last resort to get through a tough obstacle.

another vote for winch. wheeled ours several years with dana 30/35 and 33" tires without issue. Never used the winch offroad, but it was nice to have. We did use it for landscaping, pulling fenceposts and dragging people out of ditches in the winter. Best investment for offroad is a good set of tires and common sense.

Best upgrade I have done to date to my "Barbie Jeep" is a Lock Right in the D35. Like you I'm on relatively small tires, 32x12.50 15, coil spring spacer lift (it's the TJ in "My Garage").

I've about made up my mind that a Ford Exploder 8.8" rear axle will replace my D35. Gearing would be a bonus, 4.56 is about where I want to be, I'm 3.73 4 banger with the craptacular 30RH auto. Offroad, power is usually adequate, more would be better, but on the road maintaining highway speed and keeping up with traffic is a challenge on anything but flat ground.

• Lee

I dont plan on wheeling alone. I think my biggest issue with a winch is, as some have mentioned, I wouldnt actually use it much. A locker would be more benefitial every trip. But I would still have the 3.07s. Vicious circle of debate!

As far as upgrading/swapping axles, the d30/35 with 4.10s is really the only way I want to go because of the cost. I can swap those as a bolt in and enjoy the deeper gears for cheap. If I upgrade the rear, I have to regear the front I have to match and that starts the spiral of axle spending. I would rather hold off until I know exactly what set of axles I want to run. If that makes sense.

In terms of offroad ability, I think the locker will help a bit more than the gearing, but keep in mind the on-street PITA/destruction factor of a locker that gears don't have.

Winch. I use mine for much more than just offroad recovery.

Many guys building Jeeps get stuck at this same point. They don't wanna pop for a winch because of the expense vs. how often they'd use it. I have used these two arguments in this case:
1. You don't need it often, but when you need it, you NEED it. Having to pay for recovery is expensive. A buddy hooking a chain between two vehicles of fraught with disaster.
2. Doing the other stuff (tires, lockers) will just get you stuck worse when you do get stuck. Then a winch pays for itself.

I hate, hate, hate, getting "yanked" out of a hole or off an obstacle. I've seen too many bent leaves, bumpers pulled off, broken chains that take a windshield out, etc. A winch is very controlled, safe, and effective. My vote? LS1

I agree with Dr Boost, a winch is good medicine. Especially at the end of a long day when the rain is turning to snow and a warm fireplace and cocktails are waiting.

GameboyRMH wrote: In terms of offroad ability, I think the locker will help a bit more than the gearing, but keep in mind the on-street PITA/destruction factor of a locker that gears don't have.

Street manners with mine aren't that different than without, more noise from the rear from the ratcheting action of the locker. I guess you do increase the risk of snapping an axle were you to get a tire bound up in a rock/ledge, but in my case I don't make enough power for that to be a real concern even with the wimpy D35. It is a little easier to get the rear end sideways in wet/icy conditions when the locker is engaged, so there's some potential for destruction there, but mostly just more fun.

• Lee

bigdaddylee82 wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: In terms of offroad ability, I think the locker will help a bit more than the gearing, but keep in mind the on-street PITA/destruction factor of a locker that gears don't have.

Street manners with mine aren't that different than without, more noise from the rear from the ratcheting action of the locker. I guess you do increase the risk of snapping an axle were you to get a tire bound up in a rock/ledge, but in my case I don't make enough power for that to be a real concern even with the wimpy D35. It is a little easier to get the rear end sideways in wet/icy conditions when the locker is engaged, so there's some potential for destruction there, but mostly just more fun. - Lee

I had Detroits in both the axles in my last CJ. I'll admit that on the street you'd get the occasional bang and jerk to the side. It kept me awake so I was ok with it.

Winch. Don't touch the axles unless absolutely necessary. Too much gear/locker=broken. My dad's TJ killed it's factory D35 with a Detroit locker in the back on 33" tires/4.10 gears.... in the neighborhood. Both axles sheared right off. Had less than 10K on the setup. He now has a Currie 9" rear and Alloy USA D44 front. It's total overkill, but it's trail only.

http://www.nickolite.net/html/jeep_mods.htm

Personally, i would do the gears. The great thing about the gears is they will make the vehicle more entertaining in every type of use. After that, i would do the winch. Except, i would buy a HF winch, especially after the winch comparison article i read last year.. I would save the locker for last, and i would ONLY put it in the rear. I would also consider a spool.

Is this still a 4.2L?

In reply to Vigo: Still has the 4.2

Decision has been made. Picked up a Warn M8000 with YJ mounting plate for 400 today.

That's a good deal.
I've read the articles, but not sure I'd buy a HF winch. I had the big 8274 and I've winched myself up, over, and through some pretty serious stuff and it never labored. I never worried about the winch not doing it's job when I needed it.
That, and an 8274 just looks sooooo good on the front of a CJ.