So, it's more of a competitor to the Vitour P1 then? 
So, it's more of a competitor to the Vitour P1 then?
sniped from BookFace
Did Hoosier pay the SCCA tax on these?
I see the "not a real 200tw hammer" dropping in 3...2...1....
Andy Hollis said:Pricing comparo for 285/30-20 size ( a couple are 285/35):
Cup 2R - $537
Supercar 3R - $533
TA Pro - $495
A052 - $477
CRS V2 - $451
RE71RS - $440
Boy, I'm glad I run little tires sometimes. Even the "big" 245/40-17 is only $263 for the RE71RS.
adam525i said:Cleary that 200 TW rating means absolutely nothing and shouldn't be the defining characteristic of a "street tire" for any race category.
It never has, and this is something people pointed out when SCCA launched the first "200 tw" classes 20 years ago.
Cyclone03 said:Did Hoosier pay the SCCA tax on these?
I see the "not a real 200tw hammer" dropping in 3...2...1....
For like the hundredth time.....there's no hammer to drop. They're not eligible for scca street tire classes because they don't meet the tread depth requirement.
Tick tock tick tock
The clock is ticking
In reply to camopaint0707 :
Probably someone like me who is looking for rubber for his second or third set of rims for HPDE / club track day events that can handle wet surfaces and will not pull the bushing out of the control arms after a couple hot laps. I will be the first to admit that the capabilities of my C5 Corvette exceed those of the "old fart loose nut behind the steering wheel". I run Michelin PS4 on the street rims and was planning on a set of Yoko A052 for the track rims next season (a friend of mine in Cincy rides on those A052 all the time on the street on his C5 Corvette). Now these TimeAttachPro's look very tempting! Thanks for all the info!!
GRM:
Please include tire sidewall stiffness data when you compare these to the others.
My favorite 200TW tires to date is the Goodyear Supercar 3 , as it has a very stiff sidewall and they just feel "right" and awesome to drive on and feel more like a super 200TW grip wise, but are always on back order in my sizes. 245/35/20 & 295/30/20
I'm giving the CR-S V2 a try in a few weeks on my 718 GT4 as they are just coming into the states from Phil's Tire
Can't wait to try the Hoosiers late next year when my sizes are avail.
Currently on AD09's
Sounds like a good competitor to the Cup 2R and Supercar 3R. If considered against those, Hoosier may be the best choice.
Regarding in comparison to and current crop of super 200 this seems like a step in the wrong direction. Higher prices and what appears like worse tread life compared to the A052. No thanks!
Vitour P1 - many others have tested, myself included over the course of this season and found the pace within the envelope set by the A052, RE71RS, CRSv2. Any of these tires one could win on in competition.
P1 having the longest tread life the current crop of competitive options. In internal standardized testing the actual treadwear of the P1 is around 260-280.
Many have found that a cold A052, size for size is the hottest setup, of course with the trade off of poor heat tolerance and low tread life.
I think a tire like the Vitour P1 will allow more racers to afford to attend more events, while doubling down in the Cup 2R direction will have the opposite effect.
dallasreed said:Regarding in comparison to and current crop of super 200 this seems like a step in the wrong direction. Higher prices and what appears like worse tread life compared to the A052. No thanks!
I think a tire like the Vitour P1 will allow more racers to afford to attend more events, while doubling down in the Cup 2R direction will have the opposite effect.
Aren't you specifically sponsored by them? Regardless, the P1's are banned for SCCA Nats events so they're in the same camp. I'd like to see a head to head (sounds like we will) from GRM between the tires from someone that doesn't have a financial incentive either way.
goingnowherefast said:dallasreed said:Regarding in comparison to and current crop of super 200 this seems like a step in the wrong direction. Higher prices and what appears like worse tread life compared to the A052. No thanks!
I think a tire like the Vitour P1 will allow more racers to afford to attend more events, while doubling down in the Cup 2R direction will have the opposite effect.
Aren't you specifically sponsored by them? Regardless, the P1's are banned for SCCA Nats events so they're in the same camp. I'd like to see a head to head (sounds like we will) from GRM between the tires from someone that doesn't have a financial incentive either way.
He's their Marketing Director, in fact. So of course he thinks the Vitour is the right way to go.
In reply to dallasreed :
This: "internal standardized testing the actual treadwear of the P1 is around 260-280". While I believe that if you widen the confidence interval enough you can generate data to support this, I don't believe that these numbers represent the midpoint of the data. Instead, these numbers likely sit way out at 2+ standard deviations from the mean. More realistic for the P1 and A052 is something closer to 120-160. For these tires, even 200 is "to the right" of the likely data set. The Hoosier will be even more so. That's not necessarily bad, but it does represent a different value proposition than the RT660, CRS v2 and even the RE71RS in terms of longevity. Caveat emptor.
goingnowherefast said:dallasreed said:Regarding in comparison to and current crop of super 200 this seems like a step in the wrong direction. Higher prices and what appears like worse tread life compared to the A052. No thanks!
I think a tire like the Vitour P1 will allow more racers to afford to attend more events, while doubling down in the Cup 2R direction will have the opposite effect.
Aren't you specifically sponsored by them? Regardless, the P1's are banned for SCCA Nats events so they're in the same camp. I'd like to see a head to head (sounds like we will) from GRM between the tires from someone that doesn't have a financial incentive either way.
Sponsored? No. He's an owner/seller, he's trying to protect something he's invested in. He isn't the only one, hence the cult
Somebody ask the Kumho social media intern if the Giant Sky Tire has a V731ApexMasterPlus on the way for us
bslarsen728 said:In reply to dallasreed :
This: "internal standardized testing the actual treadwear of the P1 is around 260-280". While I believe that if you widen the confidence interval enough you can generate data to support this, I don't believe that these numbers represent the midpoint of the data. Instead, these numbers likely sit way out at 2+ standard deviations from the mean. More realistic for the P1 and A052 is something closer to 120-160. For these tires, even 200 is "to the right" of the likely data set. The Hoosier will be even more so. That's not necessarily bad, but it does represent a different value proposition than the RT660, CRS v2 and even the RE71RS in terms of longevity. Caveat emptor.
Not to be a vitour supporter but do you have data or evidence to support those claims? Treadwear rating is a low (as in not elevated) temperature, low slip angle test. Considering pretty much every account of the vitour shows them needing some heat to work, I'd guess they have a better chance of hitting 200tw than the a052, and probably about inline with the crsv2 and falken, and slightly worse than the re71rs. What the actual numbers are and whether they're over or under 200tw, I have no idea without doing/seeing the testing. None of this is said in support of the vitour, but in support of not flooding the internet with conjecture passed off as fact (you know, the thing everyone is rightly upset at the vitour people for doing).
Annndddd..... already banned by champcar.
In reply to dps214 :
Fair question. I don't have the data - and no one does except the manufacturer who conducted the internal testing. But I have led testing of hundreds and hundreds of tires ranging from DOT motorsports application to 80,000 warranty passenger car tires, and am a current competitor with direct experience on the vast majority of the current Super 200s and Hoosiers. FWIW, I have a pretty accurate sense of where reality sits, and definitely fall into the camp of folks who understand that the treadwear ratings are more marketing than engineering. I also know firsthand many of the tricks to generate higher numbers and lower ones. All I am saying is that there is a wide difference in the real world across the actual wear rates and performance of today's Super 200's and not all of it is explained by "better engineering." And yes, the treadwear test is a prescribed street loop out of San Angelo, TX that is run until 7200 miles are achieved. As you can imagine, you don't get a single treadwear number from the test. You get data that supports a range of tw ratings and each manufacturer then interprets this and decides where it wants to rate, so long as they can support their desired rating with data.o Different manufacturers have different liability/risk tolerances on that.
I had dinner at the launch with both the marketing director and the lead dev engineer.
I am told by Hoosier that the TA Pro was subjected to the real NHTSA-spec'd UTQG testing several times during its development and does indeed merit the 200 rating. Not just engineered to meet, as many manufacturers do, but really tested empirically. Conti has some very strong and conservative dev processes that have to be met also for anything sold for street use.
I have also been told independently by someone at GY that the SC3R could also meet that number but since it was an OE fitment originally and track focused, they were underrated to indicate purpose.
I have test tires coming next week...and suitable comparables already staged and ready to go. We plan to go online with the story shortly thereafter.
In reply to Andy Hollis :
Thanks for the update. If so, that is good news. Appreciate the insight, and really appreciate the real world testing you do! Its getting harder and harder to simply accept ratings that manufacturers provide without sufficient independent oversight.
In reply to Andy Hollis :
Can your source at GY also tell you why they have such a hard time keeping the SC3 tire in stock and off back order
Regarding Vitour's internal standardized testing, a video interview with Jeff Liu, President of Vitour United Corp., will likely be published next week. In this interview, Jeff also mentions that the Vitour P1 achieved a treadwear rating of over 200TW in their tests. As for sharing the actual test results, it's tricky. Most of the internal testing documents are in a foreign language, and it’s unclear how much of that information could realistically be made available. But as I've mentioned in previous posts, the P1 performs well in these types of tests. Focusing too much on the technicalities of the testing may miss the point, as many competition tires meet the UTQG spec, even some you would really think couldn't. Vitour has plenty of experience longevity testing across its range of passenger, truck, bus, off-road, and drift tires, in any case.
What’s really important, though, is how the the tire holds up in real-world usage.
As an example, Daniel Moore, a fast guy who drives a ~500hp Civic in Gridlife and is an avid autocrosser, has done six track days, four regional autocross events on concrete with a co-driver, and four more locals on asphalt the same set of Vitour P1. His front tires are nearly slicks at this point, but he expects to squeeze another day out of them, while the rears still look great.
In my own testing, switching between the Yokohama A052 and Vitour P1, I went through multiple sets of A052s to just one set of P1s, which lasted more than twice as long. I managed over 50 track sessions and several autocross events on one set of P1s setting lap records even when they were near end of life.
Last year at TTN, I ran the CRSv2 on my C8 Stingray with a co-driver, and they went from stickers to bald slicks over the course of that event alone.
Regarding P1 wear, we've joked about whether the tires even had cords in them! (they do btw)
I understand if people are skeptical of my experience, but motorsports is my passion too. I’ve been part of the grassroots racing community for over 10 years now, and it bothers me to see the most expensive, fastest-wearing tires become the go-to choice for competition. It’s pricing people out of events. That’s a good part of why I got involved with Vitour in the first place—because I saw a competitive tire with far better tread life that could make motorsports more affordable and accessible for my friends and the community.
As for my history with Vitour, it started when I heard they were releasing a new 285/15 tire. I was curious and reached out, eventually becoming one of the early adopters and beta testers. After testing the tire, I realized Vitour was onto something special and wanted to get involved.
For over 10 years, I’ve lead a company specializing in import/export, e-commerce, fulfillment, product design, and marketing—mostly in consumer electronics but across other industries as well. I have been a supplier for Tesla, Microsoft, the US Govt, but with the bulk of the business being B2C. At one point, I even worked with a different tire manufacturer, testing tires with the goal of developing something like the Vitour P1. However, after extensive testing, I concluded that it would take too much time and money to get anywhere, so I let it go. When I finally tested the Vitour P1, I saw that they had already created the product I had been aiming for, so I jumped at the chance to get involved. Becoming a distributor felt like a natural step. That’s how VitourP1.com was born.
Since then, I’ve been appointed as Market Director for the USA by and within the manufacturer and also serve as a director with Vitour USA Corp team. These are manufacturer-based operations overseeing the current distributor network that includes PTS, VitourP1.com, and Americas Vitour Tire, among several others. I am in the process of penning additional partnerships and pursuing opportunities with others.
Anything available in a 13"?
TRZ06 said:In reply to Andy Hollis :
Can your source at GY also tell you why they have such a hard time keeping the SC3 tire in stock and off back order
Right there with you...super annoying. In fact, for the upcoming test, I had to wait to get a set fresh outta the mold after being backordered forever.
Those are made in OK, but transported to Ohio for final steps, and then shipped out of there. That factory in OK also makes normal high-volume tires for passenger cars and trucks, and the build priority is on those. As a niche market product, SC3R's only get made a couple times a year in most sizes.
Except for the OE fitments...those are made more often and in much larger quantities. So you can always find 305/30-19 and 325/30-19 (Zl1 Camaro) and usually 305/30-20 (Tesla Plaid).
i will add that Tire Rack doesn't always have inventory even when Goodyear.com does. So always look there, too.
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