Am I the only one who struggles to get over the "great car, but it's an auto" hump?

Huckleberry wrote: In reply to Chris_V: Do you ever read what you post aloud before hitting "Reply"?

Yeah, I do. Do any of you? I'm sorry, but I'm getting a bit pissed about the constant navel gazing about how superior some of you think you are for shifting for yourself occasionally.

the "OMG! I might have to drive an automatic equipped car! The horrors, I might have to turn in my man card if I even SIT in one!!!" type commentary. "I've got to have a clutch pedal to wiggle occasionally or I'll just DIE!" BS. Or worse, the "if you don't have a clutch pedal you're just a passenger in an appliance with no control!" crap that CONSTANTLY gets spewed by the closed minded that pass for enthusiasts on these and so many fanboi forums.

Bah.

I only drove autos until the mid 2000s when I properly learned how to drive. I will not go auto again unless it's a DCT or something along those lines.

No matter how great someone claims a slushbox auto is when you drive it in like autocross or something it is limiting.

Not all DCTs are good as well, some when leave on their auto mode have really terrible software and don't know wtf to do. At least there though I can shift it myself and have it be fast.

stuart in mn wrote:

Huckleberry wrote: In reply to Chris_V: Do you ever read what you post aloud before hitting "Reply"?

No kidding... There's no reason to get all huffy about it. Some people prefer manual transmissions and other people like automatics. It's like saying some people are attracted to blondes and others to brunettes - there's no right or wrong, it's just their personal opinion.

If that's all it was, there's be no problem. It's the other crap that ALWAYS comes with it. See above.

berkeley, I've even SAID I prefer a good manual transmission and STILL you think it's about me telling you you can't like a manual transmission.

A lot of animosity on here lately, I'm hoping it's just the silly season.

Showing my age but I do remember when manual trans cars were the cheap cars that those of us with smaller budgets bought and auto trans cars were what people with higher budgets bought. Nowadays that isn't the case, hard to find manual trans except in niche cars. We being the niche that is looking for them. To me it depends on the type of vehicle and application. I know most here like manuals on anything but I want an auto trans in my truck, higher tow rating and easier to drive with load. SWMBO refuses to learn to drive a manual. Both of my toys are manual. She has never even ridden in either one and has no desire to. Take her car or my truck, both with AT whenever both of us are together.

It's not that I hate slushboxes, it's just that I prefer a proper manual. It makes me smile. Even in a clapped out, 450,000 mile 4Runner, it makes me smile. Shouldn't the that be a requirement?

Chris_V wrote:

Huckleberry wrote: In reply to Chris_V: Do you ever read what you post aloud before hitting "Reply"?

Yeah, I do. Do any of you? I'm sorry, but I'm getting a bit pissed about the constant navel gazing about how superior some of you think you are for shifting for yourself occasionally. the "OMG! I might have to drive an automatic equipped car! The horrors, I might have to turn in my man card if I even SIT in one!!!" type commentary. "I've got to have a clutch pedal to wiggle occasionally or I'll just DIE!" BS. Or worse, the "if you don't have a clutch pedal you're just a passenger in an appliance with no control!" crap that CONSTANTLY gets spewed by the closed minded that pass for enthusiasts on these and so many fanboi forums. Bah.

I have no berkeleys to give. That includes about what other people like or don't. I just said I prefer to row my own and I like what I like. Perhaps you should get rid of some of your berkeleys.

I like both (and have quite a few of each) and am with many that said it depends on the car. I don't understand the extreme views one way or the other, especially against autos.

I never knew trannys got you guys so hot and bothered

Cotton wrote: I like both (and have quite a few of each) and am with many that said it depends on the car. I don't understand the extreme views one way or the other, especially against autos.

It does depend on the car. I have no care if a minivan or a big luxury cruiser car has an auto.

However the Mustang or Corvette? I'm not touching one with an auto. However if the Mustang had a 7 speed DCT option that was a GOOD DCT I might say yes to that as well.

A car with tons of low end torque and like no top end at all like an 80s corvette is a good car for an auto as well. Or like a Mazda Cosmo with that 20B that makes power at 1800RPM. I never have driven one but I assume an auto in that is fine. The coyote v8 Mustang? Scion FRS? No. The Skyline I have with it's 80s turbo lag would be E36 M3 with an auto. Same with any car with a 2ZZ or sporty vtech Honda engines.

kanaric wrote: The Skyline I have with it's 80s turbo lag would be E36 M3 with an auto

Quite the opposite. Laggy turbo setups work nicely with an auto as the torque converter can always give you some extra rpm beyond what your gearing does, especially right off the line. That can help it spool much better.

It all depends on the car. Big and heavy, give me an autobox.

Light and tossable? Give me a stick.

kanaric wrote:

Cotton wrote: I like both (and have quite a few of each) and am with many that said it depends on the car. I don't understand the extreme views one way or the other, especially against autos.

It does depend on the car. I have no care if a minivan or a big luxury cruiser car has an auto. However the Mustang or Corvette? I'm not touching one with an auto. However if the Mustang had a 7 speed DCT option that was a GOOD DCT I might say yes to that as well.

I used to think that way also, but then got an 03 Mach 1 with an auto as a compromise with the wife. It had a shift kit and was a blast.....after putting 60k miles on it I'm not sure I would like it better with the manual. Never thought I'd say it, but that's what happened.

V8 muscle cars with autos are a lot of fun, actually. Especially with a higher stall converter.

rslifkin wrote:

kanaric wrote: The Skyline I have with it's 80s turbo lag would be E36 M3 with an auto

Quite the opposite. Laggy turbo setups work nicely with an auto as the torque converter can always give you some extra rpm beyond what your gearing does, especially right off the line. That can help it spool much better.

Hot Rod or somebody once tested that with a fairly stock Grand National. They took the same car - literally the same car - and did (more or less) back-to-back runs after swapping the OE automatic for an OE manual. It was notably quicker with the TC autobox, because they could keep almost-constant load on it to hold it in boost.

In reply to Duke:

Yeah, keeping boost on shifts is a nice bonus too. I totally forgot to mention that part.

Depends on the car. I've yet to drive a Volvo turbo built after the 240 that was more pleasant with a stick. Of course, I also think newish Volvos (R) that attempt to be hot rods are unpleasant and stupid, so there you go.

Yup, lots of dsm enthusiasts prefer the auto to the manual for boost build reasons too, especially in drag race applications. Also, in budget build applications, it seems that the auto setup is usually the cheaper. With a shift kit and high stall, I think they're plenty fun. But, yes, I too generally prefer manuals except for DD purposes. I'm kinda over DDing a manual appliance in traffic.

joey48442 wrote: I'm a lot better at this very thing than I wish I was.

octavious wrote: But it so hard to text, update my FB status, and order from Amazon while driving a manual.

When I was a kid, I had a friend who could drive his 4-speed Cavalier with an orange juice in one hand, a Croissanwich in the other hand, in downtown Cleveland traffic.

rslifkin wrote:

kanaric wrote: The Skyline I have with it's 80s turbo lag would be E36 M3 with an auto

Quite the opposite. Laggy turbo setups work nicely with an auto as the torque converter can always give you some extra rpm beyond what your gearing does, especially right off the line. That can help it spool much better.

A couple hundred more RPM in stall speed is the difference between flashing to 7psi and flashing to 13psi in Darth Vader's Buick.

The difference is QUITE impressive.

awww crap. Another thread about performance automatics.. This happens every year, the people are the same... the arguments the same.. drop the trash talk...

I don't put much thought into driving a stick. It pretty much happens on mental-autopilot. I've been thinking about paddles for a track car. That would shave time, allow me to play with left foot braking, and let me shift in all sorts of places I just didn't have time to do it. As for my street machines, the only one with an auto is my ramp truck, and it really doesn't make anything any easier or more efficient.

In general, I just don't think about transmissions as much now as I did when I was 14-21. Manuals (nearly)never break unless you break them, clutches last a good long time. The C6 in my truck will probably keep going longer than the truck, too.

I'm in the "depends on the car" camp. I've had auto and manual 4x4s and I much prefer the automatics. As fun as rowing the gears in my bronco and my Toyota pickup was, I prefer the auto in my 4Runner for its ability to crawl so smoothly. I've driven a new 328i a few times (thanks ReachNow!) and I have to admit the auto in that car is delightful in sport mode. It holds gears and will downshift into corners for me which addresses my two biggest complaints about automatics.

However, I can't help but to ignore every single automatic as I shop for my next fun car. Automatics honestly just aren't as fun to me as shifting my own gears. I don't care that the new DCTs are faster than a human can ever be. That extra bit of engagement gained from shifting gears is more important to me. I think it's the challenge that come from trying to nail a perfect heel/toe downshift or a buttery-smooth upshift that makes it fun. The best automatic in the world, be it a DCT or whatever, can't give you that satisfaction. That's not a knock on automatics, just a fact.

I feel like that lack of satisfaction is the root of this board's bias towards stick shifts. I know a few of us are on the track racing, but the majority aren't. We're not chasing every last 10th; we're just enjoying driving our (sometimes not so) sporty cars.

I used to be of the school of thought that said anything with an automatic is an appliance, and anything with a stick is fun.

Then I bought my '13 Sonic. Even with a stick, it's an appliance.

I'm pretty sure that my next car will not have a clutch, and most likely a CVT.

MattW wrote:

mad_machine wrote: My rover is my first automatic in over 30 years of driving. It's ok, but I wish it were a manual. I came from driving commercial box trucks, all of them were manual shifting and my favourite was an peterbilt cabover straight truck with a 9 speed trans. You did a LOT of shifting getting up to highway speeds and you could hear the stacks "blat" with each quick shift, but even over half a million miles of driving, it was still a lot of fun to run it up and down the gears

You must not have spent a lot of time in traffic. I'm a truck driver, last thing I want is to have to row a 10 speed over and over again through hours of Atlanta traffic, no thanks. I'll take an auto for that purpose. No matter how unmanly it appears to the supertruckers.

Boston, NYC, Philly, DC, and Baltimore on a regular basis. The low crawl gears were great on the cross bronx